DC9 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 My point was that Montana's teams had to beat 2 HOFers, 1 NFL MVP, and a solid QB. Brady's teams had to beat Warner (future HOFer..maybe) and some solid QB's. Personally, Montana's SB wins are more impressive to me. Salary Cap era vs Non-salary cap era. That makes it more impressive for Brady, for me. IE: those 49ers teams were STACKED. As has been pointed out in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Montana beat John Elway, Dan Marino, Boomer Esiason, and Ken Anderson in the Super Bowl. Brady beat Kurt Warner, Jake Delhomme, Donovan McNabb, and Russell Wilson. Also..as I mentioned earlier, late in his career, Montana took KC to the AFC championship game. System QB who was only great because of Rice and the other talent? No, not really. To me, the SB era of QB lists begins with Montana. But to each their own, I guess. QBs beat defenses, not other QBs. This isnt one vs. one. Montana is an All Time Great, but would he have been as good in the Air Corryell system? Or the Earnhardt-Perkins system? Not a knock on Montana at all though, seriously. You are in the situation you are put into. Of all time? I think the 85/86 bears, the Taylor in his prime NYG D (90?), the Ravens D from 2000, the Purple People Eaters from the early 70's, and the Steel Curtain from the mid to late 70's would be far ahead of them. But that's another poll and discussion. based on what exactly? This Seahawks defense is all time great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeesburgSkinFan Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 RIP Brady-Manning debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The Niners didn't pick Young. He was traded for and basically sat behind Montana for 4 years. Then they did pick him. (Teams pick who they trade for.) My point stands. When Montana left the 49ers, the team really didn't get that much worse. Either Montana is GOAT, and Young was almost as good as the GOAT. Or they both played on a heck of a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Of all time? I think the 85/86 bears, the Taylor in his prime NYG D (90?), the Ravens D from 2000, the Purple People Eaters from the early 70's, and the Steel Curtain from the mid to late 70's would be far ahead of them. But that's another poll and discussion. They were setting records this season for points allowed. They allowed just 13 4th quarter points over their last 8 games. Brady put up 14 in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. This year's Seahawks defense is definitely one of the top defenses of all-time. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-super-bowl-haugh-spt-0201-20150131-column.html The Seahawks arrived as the first team to lead the league in scoring defense for three consecutive seasons since the Vikings and "The Purple People Eaters" in 1969-71 — and only third overall. Only three other defenses besides the Seahawks have ranked first in fewest points and yards in consecutive seasons. The last team to pull that off: Da Bears in 1985-86. You might remember that group in Chicago, where Dan Hampton's name still is used three decades later to sell cars and drive ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Otto Graham? Ken Stabler? Is there a drinking contest in this competition? That doesn't make that QB the best ever. It just happens to work out that way. I'm with Predicto as far as the 80s go. Montana was a winner and the game ending drives were a lot of fun to watch as a kid. But Warren Moon, Dan Fouts, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Steve Young, Bernie Kosar, Boomer Esiason, any number of those guys could've won just as many (if not more) Super Bowls than Montana did. But Montana was a/the winner. That's why he gets my nod for QB of the 80s. Winners win and Bernie Kosar was fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins3D Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 They were setting records this season for points allowed. They allowed just 13 4th quarter points over their last 8 games. Brady put up 14 in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. This year's Seahawks defense is definitely one of the top defenses of all-time. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-super-bowl-haugh-spt-0201-20150131-column.html At the end of the day, the Defense needed to be bailed out my R. Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 At the end of the day, the Defense needed to be bailed out my R. Wilson. Not sure what your point is here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Is there a drinking contest in this competition? We might have to include Sonny on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Winners win and Bernie Kosar was fat. Do you winter in Cleveland? That was his protective layer. You didn't see that at Miami. Either that or the "20" made him look smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Here is the answer to this question: Who the hell has the first clue? Football is such a weird sport. Lebron James was going to be awesome anywhere. Mike Trout would be awesome no matter where he played. In football, you are relying on so many different people at all times. I honestly have no idea if we would be talking about 4-time champion Ken O'Brien if Bill Walsh had gotten his hands on him and paired him with the talent on that team. I have no earthly idea of knowing this. I think Tom Brady is exceptional. I honestly don't know what his career is like if he is drafted by Oakland. Maybe he is calling Michigan games now. I always go with Marino, because he, Elway, and probably Manning are the three dudes where I don't think it matters where he played or who he played with, and I think he is the best of the three. I mean, I think that if Marino landed someplace else, he may have won a Super Bowl or two, but I think the numbers are largely the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 if Marino lands in washingon in 1984.... under Joe Gibbs... the Reskins win every superbowl until Joe retires in 1993 ** with JKC buying every piece that Bobby Beathard finds that Coach Gibbs needs in an unrestricted cap environment (as was the case) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 if Marino lands in washingon in 1984.... under Joe Gibbs... the Reskins win every superbowl until Joe retires in 1991 You might very well be right. Though Joe was fickle and may have still wanted to see what Jay Schroeder could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasSkinsFan Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If you judge QB's by championship success, then no one in any sport ever did what Otto Graham did in his career. He took his team to 10 straight Championship games in his 10 years in the league. Every single season that man played his team was in that leagues Superbowl. http://origin-www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=77 Reason I mention this is way too much is made of Championships and what they show or mean. Championships do not make you the best ever. Neither do stats. Truth is I voted for "other" because this is not a question any of us could answer like its been asked. IF you wanted to try and answer it then you have to break the game down by decades. The game was not played the same in the 1950's when Otto Graham was king as it is in 2015 when Tom Brady is king. If you make a blanket statement question such as "Who is the greatest of all time" the answer is an opinion only and you can never answer it, without explaining the difference in the changes in the game first. If all that mattered was Championships then Otto Graham beats them all You can't even argue that. It's a fact not an opinion. I'm not saying that it means Otto Graham is in fact the GOAT, reason I point out his career is it sure derails any argument that championships are most important when deciding a question like this. You can not answer this question without defining the time period your asking about first. Any discussion about Joe Montana's Superbowls and Tom Brady's Superbowls goes out the door when you say 10 out of 10 times Player A was in a Championship game vs 6 out of 15 years Player B was in a Championship game or 4 out of 13 years Player C was in a Championship game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 It's hard to imagine what a QB playing for the Skins for 12+ years would be like. Brady, Marino, Elway, Rodgers (likely), Favre, etc. Must be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Here is the answer to this question: Who the hell has the first clue? Football is such a weird sport. Lebron James was going to be awesome anywhere. Mike Trout would be awesome no matter where he played. In football, you are relying on so many different people at all times. I honestly have no idea if we would be talking about 4-time champion Ken O'Brien if Bill Walsh had gotten his hands on him and paired him with the talent on that team. I have no earthly idea of knowing this. I think Tom Brady is exceptional. I honestly don't know what his career is like if he is drafted by Oakland. Maybe he is calling Michigan games now. I always go with Marino, because he, Elway, and probably Manning are the three dudes where I don't think it matters where he played or who he played with, and I think he is the best of the three. I mean, I think that if Marino landed someplace else, he may have won a Super Bowl or two, but I think the numbers are largely the same. Greg Cook was Joe Montana before they even knew it, lol. But I disagree on Elway. That Denver defense never got credit. if Marino lands in washingon in 1984.... under Joe Gibbs... the Reskins win every superbowl until Joe retires in 1993 ** with JKC buying every piece that Bobby Beathard finds that Coach Gibbs needs in an unrestricted cap environment (as was the case) its funny how lowly regarded Don Shula is now. I don't know why either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 its funny how lowly regarded Don Shula is now. I don't know why either. Hey, all he did was win 10 games a year, for like 30 years in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 It's hard to imagine what a QB playing for the Skins for 12+ years would be like. Nowadays? He'd be a battered corpse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Nowadays? He'd be a corpse. From Tampa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Nowadays? He'd be a battered corpse. Pssh. At any time. I'm waiting for the Skins to have their Brady, Manning, Marino, Favre, Rodgers, Montana, or hell even a Brees or Eli Manning that plays QB for them for a decade straight. Must be nice to know who the starting QB will always be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Nowadays? He'd be a battered corpse. true..... But behind the Hogs? and with his quick read/quick release? he could've used the same jersey his whole 12 year career. Without ever washing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Has to be Brady for me. I've never seen a QB in my lifetime execute the QB position like he does, not even Manning. Granted I'm only 28 and barely remember the Montana KC years. I also don't hold it against Brady that he lost two SBs. 1) in the first Giants SB, he took them down the field and got them the lead with a late TD only to have his Defense give it right away with the Tyree catch their next drive. Then he throws a 70 yard dime that Moss probably should have caught based on what Moss displayed throughout the year and would set them up for the game winning FG. Miss effort there was meh 2) The second Giants SB is completely wrapped if Welker doesn't drop a fairly easy catch for an NFL WR. Getting to 6 and winning 4 is a lot more impressive than only getting to 4 and winning 4. Not to mention he did it with a island of misfit toys cast at RB and WR for most of his career also playing outside in crap weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Not to mention he did it with a island of misfit toys cast at RB and WR for most of his career also playing outside in crap weather. The whole help thing is nonsense. Brady gets hurt the Patriots go 11-5. Peyton gets hurt and that team becomes the worst in the NFL. You cannot underestimate the impact of Bill Belichick in Brady's greatness. Same for Montana with Walsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 The whole help thing is nonsense. Brady gets hurt the Patriots go 11-5. Peyton gets hurt and that team becomes the worst in the NFL. You cannot underestimate the impact of Bill Belichick in Brady's greatness. Same for Montana with Walsh.tbf tho, the first 3 super bowl wins those teams did not have the weapons. Troy Brown, David Patten, and David Givens were his WR targets those 3 years. The 2007/8 Patriots were def stacked though. That Colts team was not stacked when Peyton got injured and were not SB contenders at all. This current Broncos team won a playoff game with a fullback playing QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 tbf tho, the first 3 super bowl wins those teams did not have the weapons. Troy Brown, David Patten, and David Givens were his WR targets those 3 years. The 2007/8 Patriots were def stacked though. That Colts team was not stacked when Peyton got injured and were not SB contenders at all. This current Broncos team won a playoff game with a fullback playing QB. Yep. And if you look at Browns stats prior to Brady, he had a decent year the year before, then his career year that year. He wasn't exactly lighting up the NFL. Patten put up career numbers in 2001 and 2002, his first two years in NE with Brady at QB. In 2003, Deon Branch, nuff said, career numbers with Brady. Huge drop off in production in Seattle, comes back and puts up 700 yards in 11 games in 2010 at the end of his career. Don't get me wrong, I love Peyton Manning. But in Brady's defense, he never had Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne the majority of his career. The closest he had to that was Randy Moss, for 2 seasons at the end of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.