Yahoo: Report: Patriots being investigated for using deflated footballs in AFC championship game

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Well, this is looking like more a big deal than we originally thought. But I'll still pump the brakes just a bit. 

 

The NFL didn't "wait until after 11 to release this" This is a report per several sources. If their sources as as good as our Redskins insiders then we'll never know the truth.

 

Generally, I have two questions:

 

1. What is the standard deviation on PSI on balls after they've gone through an entire 3 hour game. Checking the balls several days, or even hours, after the game could make a big difference. By the time this investigation took place the balls have been fallen on, spiked, and thrown around for 3 hours. Not to mention they've gone through a variety of climate changes, from cold and rainy, to possibly warm indoors. Was the investigation done in New York at league offices? If so, were they flown there? All of these things matter if all you're doing is checking the PSI after the fact.

 

2. When officials inspected and approved the balls before the game, did they actually measure the PSI, or did they just pick them up and say "Yep, they look okay". To me, this matters A LOT. If a referee physically measured the PSI in each of the 12 balls before the game, found them within the range, and they weren't within during the game, then we have a HUGE deal. But if all the referee did was "visually inspect" the balls before the game, then who the **** knows if they were actually within that range. For all we know, the balls were a little flat all along, and the referee okayed them that way. If that's the case, then I don't think this is a big deal at all. 

 

3. Aaron Rodgers says he often likes to use balls he's practiced with or played in games with before. To me, that means that these aren't brand new balls they are using in the games. So how far off are we talking here? If 11 of these 12 balls were under inflated by a small amount (say within .5), then I'm just not sure it really bothers me. It would bother me more on brand new balls than it would on balls that have been used before. If they all came from Brady's Wednesday practice, maybe they lost some air.

 

I just think there are an awful lot of variables in play here.

[DogofWar1]

I'll wait for the full report from the NFL (though Goodell's track record on these kinds of matters is very suspect), but this does not sound good.  Not in the slightest.  Initially the report seemed a tad silly, but if 11 of 12 balls were indeed underinflated, that's a big deal.

 

I do wonder what the recourse is.  Suspension for Belichick?  Huge fine?  Loss of first rounder?  All of them?

 

This is assuming the report echoes what some are saying.

[GoSkins0721]

Well, this is looking like more a big deal than we originally thought. But I'll still pump the brakes just a bit. 

 

The NFL didn't "wait until after 11 to release this" This is a report per several sources. If their sources as as good as our Redskins insiders then we'll never know the truth.

 

Generally, I have two questions:

 

1. What is the standard deviation on PSI on balls after they've gone through an entire 3 hour game. Checking the balls several days, or even hours, after the game could make a big difference. By the time this investigation took place the balls have been fallen on, spiked, and thrown around for 3 hours. Not to mention they've gone through a variety of climate changes, from cold and rainy, to possibly warm indoors. Was the investigation done in New York at league offices? If so, were they flown there? All of these things matter if all you're doing is checking the PSI after the fact.

 

2. When officials inspected and approved the balls before the game, did they actually measure the PSI, or did they just pick them up and say "Yep, they look okay". To me, this matters A LOT. If a referee physically measured the PSI in each of the 12 balls before the game, found them within the range, and they weren't within during the game, then we have a HUGE deal. But if all the referee did was "visually inspect" the balls before the game, then who the **** knows if they were actually within that range. For all we know, the balls were a little flat all along, and the referee okayed them that way. If that's the case, then I don't think this is a big deal at all. 

 

3. Aaron Rodgers says he often likes to use balls he's practiced with or played in games with before. To me, that means that these aren't brand new balls they are using in the games. So how far off are we talking here? If 11 of these 12 balls were under inflated by a small amount (say within .5), then I'm just not sure it really bothers me. It would bother me more on brand new balls than it would on balls that have been used before. If they all came from Brady's Wednesday practice, maybe they lost some air.

 

I just think there are an awful lot of variables in play here.

 

I used the 1112pm time based on the ESPN article. If it appeared somewhere earlier, than so be it. 

 

An engineer will need to respond to the differences in temperature changes, etc. But it's out of spec by 2.0 lbs not .5

 

Yes, ARod likes the balls pumped up because of his big hand & strong grip. I was surprised to read GB used old balls during games. Isn't this the reason the league went to "Kick only" footballs to ensure they were all exactly the same?  

 

Yep, still a lot of unanswered questions. But from the reactions of the NFL being reported, they aren't happy. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I'm betting that with Spy gate being on their resume, Goodell comes down hard.  I'm thinking they lose a few picks this year, including their 1st rounder.

 

I don't like Brady because I hate the Patriots, but as a football fan I admire his skills and enjoy watching him play.  I've lost a lot of respect for him because of this, knowing that he had to be in on it.

 

I'm all for gamesmanship.  But this is something else.  It's total bush league **** and calls into question the integrity of the game.  Again, it's not the worst thing ever, it just doesn't sit right with me.  I hope they get hammered.

[88Comrade2000]

1. Give Seattle 2 Touchdowns to start the Superbowl.

 

2. Bellichek is suspended immediately and isn't allowed to coach the Superbowl.

 

3. Robert Kraft is fined and the Patriots lose all their draft picks for the 2015 Draft.

 

If it is determined Bill ordered the deflate; then he should be banned for life. 

[FrFan]

[KuNiT21]

Definitely shocking that they actually did reveal the balls were deflated.  It's amazing the reasoning behind it.  I could see playing against the 2013-2014 Broncos, but the Colts?  Did they really need to gain an advantage against the frickin Colts?  The AFC is already weak sauce besides the Patriots, the Colts were nothing special at all this year.

[codeorama]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/deflate-gate--report--patriots-being-investigated-for-deflated-footballs-062844133.html

The NFL will investigate the possibility that the New England Patriots deflated footballs during the AFC championship game, which they won 45-7 over the Indianapolis Colts, according to Bob Kravitz of WTHR.com.

It rained constantly on Sunday in Foxborough, Mass., which made gripping the ball challenging. Obviously, a less-inflated ball is easier to grip than a fully inflated one.

*

I'm confused, wouldn't this have benefited the colts too?

 

No, because each team uses their own balls that are inspected before the game.  The Colts defender noticed it was deflated after intercepting the ball and turned it in.  Now they are reporting 11 of 12 of the patriots footballs were significantly deflated. That's not an accident.  Pats are cheaters. I don't think you can necessarily say this is why they won, but, a couple of things come to mind: They've now been caught cheating 2 times (counting Spygate) and also, Luck had is worst day of the season throwing the ball in the rain and wind, while Brady was on the money throwing easier to grip balls.  It hurts the integrity of the game. IMO, this is a huge deal because of the Pats past cheating history.

I'm betting that with Spy gate being on their resume, Goodell comes down hard.  I'm thinking they lose a few picks this year, including their 1st rounder.

 

I don't like Brady because I hate the Patriots, but as a football fan I admire his skills and enjoy watching him play.  I've lost a lot of respect for him because of this, knowing that he had to be in on it.

 

I'm all for gamesmanship.  But this is something else.  It's total bush league **** and calls into question the integrity of the game.  Again, it's not the worst thing ever, it just doesn't sit right with me.  I hope they get hammered.

 

 

Well said.  Brady had to know, the Colts defender noticed right away when he intercepted the ball.  Brady had the never to call the accusations "Ridiculous".  He's a douche.

[khaozerker]

[codeorama]

 

 

3. Aaron Rodgers says he often likes to use balls he's practiced with or played in games with before. To me, that means that these aren't brand new balls they are using in the games. So how far off are we talking here? If 11 of these 12 balls were under inflated by a small amount (say within .5), then I'm just not sure it really bothers me. It would bother me more on brand new balls than it would on balls that have been used before. If they all came from Brady's Wednesday practice, maybe they lost some air.

 

I just think there are an awful lot of variables in play here.

 

They explained all of this on the radio this morning. Each team has 12 balls that they get to practice with during the week. They can rough them up, do what they want ect... However, they turn them back in on game day and they are checked by the officials to make sure they comply with the rules including the PSI which has to be between 12.5 and 13.5.  The rumors are that the pats footballs were around 8-9 PSI, just enough to get a better grip on the ball.

[HOF44]

Boston Globe reporting 11 of 12 balls under inflated by at least 2 pounds.

[GoSkins0721]

<pic> ball is flat <pic>

 

It's not about whether this hurt the Colts or actually gave NE an advantage. It's about the integrity of the game. Not the "spirit" of some rule that doesn't exist, the actual rules that all teams must abide by. 

[RonArtest15]

Not a big deal...just going to be a beaten to death topic in the bye week leading up to the SB. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

It's not about whether this hurt the Colts or actually gave NE an advantage. It's about the integrity of the game. Not the "spirit" of some rule that doesn't exist, the actual rules that all teams must abide by. 

Absolutely. It frankly disgusts me how much people are talking about how much they won the game by as if that negates the fact that they cheated.

[Veretax]

Here’s how I feel about this. Presuming for a moment that the Patriots did this on purpose. It’s about the integrity of the game.

1. An athlete competing in the Olympics who medals, and is later found to have been on performance enhancing drugs, no matter how dominant their performance was would be stripped of their, medal, their title, and Suspended likely from competition for some time.

2. In Cycling, how many riders have been found to be doping, that won the title? The result, stripped of their title, and for many, suspension from not only the race, but other things.

3. In racing, whether its Horse Racing, or NASCAR, if someone is found that their car or horse has been illegally modified, if the engine has an illegal part, if the fuel has an illegal additive, if they’ve done something to the tires. It doesn’t Matter, in NASCAR even if you had a dominant race, they would penalize the driver sufficiently that they did not win, strip them of championship points. Likely fine the team and crew chief as well.

4. This seems no different than the Black Sox throwing games to make money on the side, and how many on that team were not involved, and still suffered.

So if the Patriots are found that they did this, it throws into doubt the ENTIRE season. Therefore if found guilty the following should happen.

1. All Victories by the patriots this past year should be stripped from the franchise (because you don’t know how long this year they were doing it)
2. The Patriots forfeit their AFC Crown, AFC East Title, and should not be allowed to play in the Super Bowl
3. The head coach is responsible for what his staff and team do on the field, therefore Bellichek should be fined, and suspended for at least as long as Sean Payton was suspended for targetting – a year.
4. Strip the Patriots of all draft picks or at least all of them above the 5th round this year, and their first rounder next year.
5. The Patriots in 2015 should be ineligible for the playoffs as punishment to the team, and the coaches. They can still play the games and get their salary, because replacing a team on the schedule is too difficult, but they should be made inelligible.
6. The owner of the Patriots should be fined some amount for allowing his ‘staff’ to thumb their nose at the rule of the game.
7. Any bonuses earned because of playoff wins should be stripped from all players, for not coming forward to tell the refs something was wrong with the balls.

Anything short of this, and the NFL is not taking it seriously.

Frankly, I don’t care who they put against the Seahawks, heck cancel the pro-bowl and let the Colts and Packers duke it out for a second chance, I don’t care, but the NFL must come down hard on this so it never happens again.

All this is what I'd do if I was the NFL, IF they are guilty.....I'd test all the rest of the balls, and see if there is a common thread.  (I'd also test the balls from the NFC title game too.)

[GoSkins0721]

 

Here’s how I feel about this. Presuming for a moment that the Patriots did this on purpose. It’s about the integrity of the game....

<EDITED to reduce the size>

...Anything short of this, and the NFL is not taking it seriously.

Frankly, I don’t care who they put against the Seahawks, heck cancel the pro-bowl and let the Colts and Packers duke it out for a second chance, I don’t care, but the NFL must come down hard on this so it never happens again.

All this is what I'd do if I was the NFL, IF they are guilty.....I'd test all the rest of the balls, and see if there is a common thread.  (I'd also test the balls from the NFC title game too.)

 

I agree on many of your points, but Commissioner Gordon doesn't have the nutsack to do this.

 

Kraft has the ear of lots of owners. It will be interesting to hear what some of the other owners have to say, particularly ****-Mara & ****-Laurie

 

I'll withhold judgement until the NFL releases it's findings. But the NFL initial reaction indicates this didn't pass the sniff test. 

 

"One source described the league as "disappointed ... angry ... distraught," after spending considerable time on the findings earlier Tuesday.

[Taylor703]

It's not about whether this hurt the Colts or actually gave NE an advantage. It's about the integrity of the game. Not the "spirit" of some rule that doesn't exist, the actual rules that all teams must abide by.

The integrity of the game? This is the NFL we're taking about lol

[MattFancy]

Here's something I've wondered about, why didn't the refs notice when they spot the ball that something seemed off?

[skinsmarydu]

Here's something I've wondered about, why didn't the refs notice when they spot the ball that something seemed off?

I know, right? Unless they were complicit in the whole thing...

This just sucks.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I see that some of my questions were answered overnight. This definitely look worse.

 

But I still think some things don't add up. To me, it all comes down to what exactly the PSI was when the official inspected them. It seems like, because all balls are NOT brand new, they are supposed to be reinflated to within the rules. The question is, did the official, at 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game, actually check them. 

 

If he went, one by one, and checked the exact PSI on all 12 balls, then we have a real and serious problem. If he eye balled them, then it's too easy for the Patriots to say "whoops, guess sour equipment guy didn't get them right. But the ref approved them!"

 

Additionally, I think the "how" is a big deal. Were they using equipment to let air out of the ball? That bothers me a lot. Did they ask Vince Wilfork to sit on it during a commercial break? That actually doesn't bother me at all. In the same way that I don't mind a QB licking the ball for better grip, I don't mind asking a DT to sit on it during the break for you. But I do mind you using a tool to manually draw air out.

[frostyj]

Here's something I've wondered about, why didn't the refs notice when they spot the ball that something seemed off?

I was just about to ask this same thing. The refs are constantly touching the balls, after every play. They didn't notice a 2lb difference? I would think its pretty noticeable. Now, I'm not trying to take any blame off the pats, but the checks are in place, why was it not noticed, and why when it was brought to the attention of the refs, why didn't they check balls at that time?

Do both teams have their own balls? If not, how is it an advantage other than not practicing with underinflated balls?

I don't know, something is going on and to me, its not just the pats.

[Veretax]

the officials do not have time to test the PSI of a ball every time a new one is rotated in.   Do you want refs stopping play every time a new ball is brought in to measure it?  Plus it was cold, how would they know the ball was underinflated to begin with?
 

Also note that pounds per square inch is not necessarily the same as weight of the ball.  PSI has to do with how strongly inflated, how concentrated the air was in the ball.. It was wet, rainy, and if the officials were wearing gloves for protection, not 'grip' of the ball, they might not be able to tell.

[MattFancy]

I just don't buy into it being a big deal. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

But when you have Rodgers saying he likes to over inflate them and see if the league catches it, I just don't know how much of an impact under inflating has. I mean the Pats won by 38 and ran for over 150yds and 3TDs. So it's not like they were constantly throwing all game long and that's why they won.

 

Then there's other questions I have:

 

Why didn't the refs notice?

Who controls the game balls during the game?

Could the Pats have gotten ahold of the balls after they were inspected at the start of the game?

Could the weather have played a factor?

Were the Colts balls also defleated a bit?

Why doesn't the league just use 1 ball for each team for the whole game?

[Veretax]

People keep talking about the 'running all over them'  What if an overinflated ball is easier to grip by a runner, and harder to knock out and force a fumble on... would you still say its not a big deal?>

[MattFancy]

People keep talking about the 'running all over them'  What if an overinflated ball is easier to grip by a runner, and harder to knock out and force a fumble on... would you still say its not a big deal?>

 

No idea. I do know that over the last 2  regular seasons, Blount has only fumbled on 1% of his carries. 4 fumbles over his last 278 carries. So it's not like he's a guy that fumbles alot anyway.