Can someone explain to me why people say the problems started when Synder bought the team?

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Why Snyder??? Obviously a rhetorical question!

 

Talent wins in the NFL....I give you Danny the GM!!!

 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Let's not kid ourselves.  Casserly was an AWFUL AWFUL GM!  Plus, he was AWFUL.

Stubblefield, Sean Gilbert, trading for Big Daddy.  Other big money FA flops like Leonard Marshall, and a solid decade of 1st round busts.  Casserly was a decent scout when it came to finding a few hidden gems (Brian Mitchell, Joe Jacoby, Chip Lohmiller), but he whiffed on more 1st rounders (ALL of them until Bailey) than any other GM.  And he left us with the WORST OL in football...a feat which he repeated later with the Texans.

Just because Vinny and Bruce suck donkey balls, let's not glamorize preceding mega-failures with selective memory.

Man I am glad you said this. Thinking back you are right on and it seems to me we started downhill the day CC took over.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Gibbs did pretty well in the salary cap era his second go round. Two playoff berths in four years is top notch in my book.

 

I don't really agree that the team was well-built over those 4 years (unless you are OK with only worrying about those 4 years and nothing after). We threw away money and picks for mediocre role players. I do agree that Gibbs didn't lose his touch when it came to coaching. He had a couple missteps, but he's been the best leader we've had since he left in the early-1990s. 

 

Having said that, 2004-2007 was light years different than 1993. If you recall, our roster was ancient when Gibbs stepped down. We had to let several key contributors (guys like Gary Clark, Wilbur Marshall, Martin Mayhew, and Fred Stokes) from the last championship team walk away because we were so far over the cap. I just don't think Gibbs had it in him to completely rebuild a team after he had already been to 4 Super Bowls in just over a decade. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

What would be different if the Cooke's owned the team is that we'd of never had these off-season highs and regular season lows and I think that is the #1 complaint of fans.  I don't know if it's just me, but expectantions of this team were realistic before Snyder owned the team. The fans seemed to have an understanding of what this team really was.  Now it's just highs and lows.  Big moves and big promises only to be deflated game after game until a new promise comes up.  Fans now are kind of obxinous with their off-season glory gushing and then their regalur season suicide watch. 

 

Less important because it's not on the field, but the Redskins would likely still be considered one of the classiest organizations in the league. Even if the losing was going to happen either way, the fact that the team would have been passed down to another Cooke would have had a more traditional feel to it. 

 

I think we'd, at a minimum, be in that Buffalo Bills category of a proud, classy franchise that fell on hard times. Again, it's not a huge difference, but it's nice to be proud of the organization that pays the team you love. 

[zoony]

Can we just change his name to Cinder and be done already?

[Darrell Green Fan]

Make no mistake, the team was bad (1993-1998) before Dan took over. However Dan has made things much worse and toxic with impatient decisions, splashy FA signings, and a boorish attitude. 

 

Bingo. I was scared to death that John Cooke would retain ownership.  Had that happened I'm convinced Casserly would still be the GM and Norv would still be the coach.  He was a wimp, always telling us things were fine when they weren't close to fine.

 

With that said Snyder is described best above. 

[mike42]

Let's not kid ourselves.  Casserly was an AWFUL AWFUL GM!  Plus, he was AWFUL.

Stubblefield, Sean Gilbert, trading for Big Daddy.  Other big money FA flops like Leonard Marshall, and a solid decade of 1st round busts.  Casserly was a decent scout when it came to finding a few hidden gems (Brian Mitchell, Joe Jacoby, Chip Lohmiller), but he whiffed on more 1st rounders (ALL of them until Bailey) than any other GM.  And he left us with the WORST OL in football...a feat which he repeated later with the Texans.

Just because Vinny and Bruce suck donkey balls, let's not glamorize preceding mega-failures with selective memory.

Charlie was no Bobby, but he wasn't awful. Yes, we all know his blunders. Yeah, it's easy to say drafting Shuler was foolish, but back in 1994, it was a move praised by experts. I understand most of his draft picks.

 

Charlie didn't leave the team with the worst offensive line, infact he left the team with Norvs offense at it's peak. Theres no denying that 1999 offense was amazing.

[DC9]

see this post

 

his was a hostile takeover ...he was a brute, a bull in a china shop, he had no tact, no sense of history, he had no sense. 

 

His team - his preroggative to be frank.  My cousin was best friend with our equipments managers kid back then and he got really upset that they left.  Like, REALLY upset.  So I empathize, but it was his team.

 

Did he have the bedside manner required to kill someone softly?  **** no and I'm not sure he still does.

 

In going back and looking at that year in review, it really strikes me close to home now cause Snyder was only about a year or two older than me when he bought the team... that's CRAZY to me.  No chance I'd be ready for that kind of commitment without having a strong pair of shoulders to lean on.

But since Dan has been here, the short answer is we've had no quality football exec making the football decisions.  We have that now with McLovin.  So we'll see if Dan lets him do it.

[Riggo-toni]

I was scared to death that John Cooke would retain ownership.  Had that happened I'm convinced Casserly would still be the GM and Norv would still be the coach. 

He even said as much in an interview a couple years back, where he ripped Snyder for firing Casserly. John grew up trying to navigate a nasty divide between his father and his mother, and also had to work to get his brother and father to reconcile. His life was molded by the need to de-escalate conflicts and endure tension which rendered him incapable of making sweeping changes.

Snyder's problem is that he has never comprehended the successful dynamic of the JKC era. The Squire was the best professional sports owner of his era, having won multiple titles in the NBA prior to winning SBs in the NFL. His first act was to hire the most qualified GM he could find - Beathard, who had 2 rings prior to joining the Skins. Beathard hired Gibbs over JKC's objections. Beathard was a personnel genius, and had one of the greatest drafts in history in 81. He usually traded 1st rounders for more picks, or his favorite move was to trade the next year's 1st for a high 2nd. The colossal mistake JKC made was eventually allowing Gibbs to usurp more power over personnel, figuring that he could still keep Bobby around with a huge raise. Beathard walked away instead, preferring to keep his legacy intact. Gibbs was the best coach of his era, and an argument can certainly be made that he was the best ever, but he was a disaster at personnel, trading a 1st and a 3rd for a washed up Gerald Riggs (the trade he wanted that prompted Beathard's exit), two 1sts for bust Desmond Howard, and trading away future SB QB Stan Humphries back to Beathard in SD for a 4th rounder....which was used to draft a punter who got cut in training camp.

Gibbs was the face of the franchise during our golden age, and that seems to have been all the Snyder took from it. Up until the McC hire, personnel hires have been based not on competence, but on personal relationships, affability, and worse - one's propensity to enable Dan's fantasy whims. Consequently, the Snyder era has been a constant alternating cycle: hire a 1st time offensive head coach in hopes he will be the next Gibbs, blame him for not producing with a lamentable roster Danny's minions have assembled, then replace him with an aging big name retread and hand full personnel control over to that HC.

[TMK9973]

Jack Kent Cooke was a great owner - But lets not romanticize what it would have been like if John kept control.  

He was cheap - Really didn't care at all about winning,  And would have kept Norv on forever -UNLESS he actually started winning and wanted more money.

 

Lets not forget that JKC COULD have left the team to his son outright, there was a reason he didn't. He knew John wasn't in love with this team.  

[Riggo-toni]

Charlie was no Bobby, but he wasn't awful. Yes, we all know his blunders. Yeah, it's easy to say drafting Shuler was foolish, but back in 1994, it was a move praised by experts. I understand most of his draft picks.

 

Charlie didn't leave the team with the worst offensive line, infact he left the team with Norvs offense at it's peak. Theres no denying that 1999 offense was amazing.

The 98 OL set the franchise record for sacks allowed. It was Cerrato who brought in Andy Heck at LT to fix the line in 99, though Casserly did draft Jansen.

And Casserly sucked. PERIOD.

From the beginning of his tenure up to the 98 draft, his top picks were all either complete busts or disappointments. It's not just Shuler and Westbroke-it was every 1st picked before 99. Kenard Lang had probably the longest career of any of them, and he was pedestrian at best.

He made 3 good FA signings - Ken Harvey, Henry Ellard, and Terry Allen, and the rest were spectacular failures. Stubblefield got a then record contract. Big Daddy not only got a massive contract, but we traded a 1st and a 3rd for him on top of the wasted cap space.

[gortiz]

His team - his preroggative to be frank.  My cousin was best friend with our equipments managers kid back then and he got really upset that they left.  Like, REALLY upset.  So I empathize, but it was his team.

 

Did he have the bedside manner required to kill someone softly?  **** no and I'm not sure he still does.

 

In going back and looking at that year in review, it really strikes me close to home now cause Snyder was only about a year or two older than me when he bought the team... that's CRAZY to me.  No chance I'd be ready for that kind of commitment without having a strong pair of shoulders to lean on.

But since Dan has been here, the short answer is we've had no quality football exec making the football decisions.  We have that now with McLovin.  So we'll see if Dan lets him do it.

 

Right, I get it ... the guy is just so tone deaf, no sense of how to at worst, give the appearance of focus and competence. 

 

While I'm over the moon with McC being here, I wish he was able to hire his coach.  I see drama down the road, unless of course if we win. 

[veteranskinsfan]

_{If you look at our franchise and switching owners you see how fragile and difficult it is to stay on top in your division.}

_{Look at the 49ers now.  They are looking at the next ten years of mediocrity.  Why?  Their owner is a 34 year old know it all.  Snyder hired poor talent evaluators.  Remember Pepper Rodgers?}

[Veretax]

When Gibbs left the salary cap came.  Everything changed. We lost a LOT of players we would have kept before as I recall.

On top of that, We had no QB.  Like Seriously we paid a mint to keep Rypien, and then IIRC he got hurt, and was really never the same for us.  Pettibone just didn't have Head Coaching in him, and Norv, was boom and bust.  

I still think that's the move that got us.  We were jealous of the Cowboy's run and thought hey lets bring the OC here.... We never had a RB/TE/and WR tandem quite like they had in Dallas at that time.  I think we were cursed the day we tried to hire Norv as Head Coach from our rival.

[Riggo-toni]

I actually think Petitbon could've been a successful coach, but he took over the very year the salary cap was over.  Jack K Cooke was the only owner who voted against the cap, and the Skins had the highest payroll in the league.  We went into that first year already 40% over, and had to ask everybody to take a huge paycut.  The roster was depleted, and the old guys who remained got injured early on.

Norv came in and in his first year cut future stars Wychek, Rich Gannon and Keenan McCardell to make room for Shuler and a couple of losers he brought over from Dallas.  Imagine if we'd kept Gannon and let him develop, had future probowlers Wychek and McCardell at TE and WR.  Norvo the Clown was such a dumbass.

[zoony]

I actually think Petitbon could've been a successful coach, but he took over the very year the salary cap was over. Jack K Cooke was the only owner who voted against the cap, and the Skins had the highest payroll in the league. We went into that first year already 40% over, and had to ask everybody to take a huge paycut. The roster was depleted, and the old guys who remained got injured early on.

Norv came in and in his first year cut future stars Wychek, Rich Gannon and Keenan McCardell to make room for Shuler and a couple of losers he brought over from Dallas. Imagine if we'd kept Gannon and let him develop, had future probowlers Wychek and McCardell at TE and WR. Norvo the Clown was such a dumbass.

I always enjoy your take on the redskins in the mid to late 90s.

A bit of a black hole in my fandom. I watched, but was in an altered state for most of those years

[chipwhich]

In fairness, McCardell wasn't cut by Norv.  Wycheck and Gannon didn't develop into stars for 5 years after they left the Redskins.  We were a bad team, and cutting Wycheck and Gannon weren't anything significant.  Fans always remember Wycheck for what he became, but he didn't leave the Redskins and immediately tear up the league.

[PCS]

I actually think Petitbon could've been a successful coach, but he took over the very year the salary cap was over.  Jack K Cooke was the only owner who voted against the cap, and the Skins had the highest payroll in the league.  We went into that first year already 40% over, and had to ask everybody to take a huge paycut.  The roster was depleted, and the old guys who remained got injured early on.

Norv came in and in his first year cut future stars Wychek, Rich Gannon and Keenan McCardell to make room for Shuler and a couple of losers he brought over from Dallas.  Imagine if we'd kept Gannon and let him develop, had future probowlers Wychek and McCardell at TE and WR.  Norvo the Clown was such a dumbass.

Richie,Charlie,and Jack didn't help things either. Cooke didn't like dealing with some of the free agents and ordered a trade or the flat out end of negotiations with a few players. Richie wasn't a fan of fan of Clark so off he went. Jack didn't like Ryp and I think neither was a fan of B-Mitch. They didn't have a lot of depth either so when all those players went away in free agency,there wasn't a lot there to replace them with. As for Richie,Charlie and Jack weren't all that impressed before the season even ended. Tough to say if Richie would have been good or not,but he certainly didn't have or stand much of a chance to prove either way. 

[Riggo-toni]

Casserly and Cooke were dead set on getting Norv as 93 was ending, in much the same way I remember Dolphins fans wanting Shula to retire in time to grab Jimmy Johnson.  Getting Turner was a huge coup at the time, and I remember being ecstatic about the hire, as embarrassing as that is to admit now.  And by his own admission, Casserly screwed the pooch on the imminent cap.  Essentially we were hoping for a repeat in 92 after destroying everyone in 91 - so all contract renegotiations were put off until too late. As it was, Ryp held out and got to camp out of shape, Lachey got hurt, everybody got older, and 92 fizzled out pretty fast anyway.  Sigh.

 

Petitbon made one ENORMOUS egregious error - he promoted QB coach Rod Dowhower to OC and decided they were gonna implement a WCO - despite having no WRs (other than Monk, who was in decline) capable of running it.  This was the days of genuine Walsh dink and dunk to big dudes for YAC, and we had just traded 2 #1s for that worthless munchkin Desmond Howard.  Plus, as good of a deep ball thrower as Ryp was, he flat out sucked in the short passing game.  If you think forcing RG3 into the pocket is a bad fit/idea - this was more idiotic.  It worked the first few games, and then defenses switched to soft zone coverage and killed it.  Dowhower was the worst OC I'd ever seen until Schotferbrains brought in Jimmy Raye in '01.

[Alexa]

Let's not kid ourselves.  Casserly was an AWFUL AWFUL GM!  Plus, he was AWFUL.

Stubblefield, Sean Gilbert, trading for Big Daddy.  Other big money FA flops like Leonard Marshall, and a solid decade of 1st round busts.  Casserly was a decent scout when it came to finding a few hidden gems (Brian Mitchell, Joe Jacoby, Chip Lohmiller), but he whiffed on more 1st rounders (ALL of them until Bailey) than any other GM.  And he left us with the WORST OL in football...a feat which he repeated later with the Texans.

Just because Vinny and Bruce suck donkey balls, let's not glamorize preceding mega-failures with selective memory.

Let's not forget that Casserly did a nice job adding several real good players to one of the best teams in NFL history.

[Ghost of]

In fairness, McCardell wasn't cut by Norv. Wycheck and Gannon didn't develop into stars for 5 years after they left the Redskins. We were a bad team, and cutting Wycheck and Gannon weren't anything significant. Fans always remember Wycheck for what he became, but he didn't leave the Redskins and immediately tear up the league.

Wycheck had 7 catches in 94, went to Houston and got 40, with over 150 from 95 to 97. He was pretty decent almost immediately and a star much sooner than 5 years after leaving based on productivity.

[Riggo-toni]

Let's not forget that Casserly did a nice job adding several real good players to one of the best teams in NFL history.

I don't disagree that Casserly was a decent scout - he was the one who uncovered Joe Jacoby after all.  The bulk of the 91 SB team was players acquired by Beathard, but Casserly did manage a good trade for one of the starting DTs on that team iirc.

 

Casserly was a pretty good scout who didn't have what it took to be a GM, just as Norvo the Clown is a very good OC, but unfit as a HC.

 

That's why our 90s teams sucked  - we had a GM and a coach who were only suited to be a scout and a coordinator.

[Rufus T Firefly]

The team started to go bad after the last Super Bowl, but whether that was just a lull for an otherwise well-run franchise or the end of an era we'll never know. Though I would guess the latter.

 

But I don't know why it matters. Snyder is the owner, his entire tenure has been terrible. It's not any less so because the previous years were bad too.

[Warhead36]

While the Redskins weren't a good team in the last days of JKC, we weren't the dysfunctional mess we were now. We just whiffed on a bunch of high draft picks and were in an expected downturn after 10+ years(really 20 if you count the 70s w/ Allen)Golden Age.

 

We didn't become a league joke until Snyder took over.

[JSSkinz]

Joe Gibbs did a lot of creative things with roster spots before the salary cap was implemented.

 

I think the major issue was this team didn't understand the dynamics of the salary cap and how it would affect the team in the short and long term.  They continued to do business like there was no cap and we know how that worked out.