The case for firing Gruden ASAP

[nick_sanchize]

The skinsare not the only team in a mess.my eagles got embarrassed by the Cowboys and it wont mean anything because they might  not make the playoffs. 

anyway on draft day the 'Skins should fix the O-Line. see how much time romo got for his passes...thats whats up

haha my r0m0 autocorrected to romo

[Peregrine]

Do you know how many Super Bowl coaches didn't look anything like a Super Bowl coach their first year?

 

Well, from those that have won the superbowl, most of them looked like super bowl coaches their first year.  A few were pretty mediocre, none were 3-13.  Harbaugh was 11-5 his first year with the Ravens.  Caroll? 7-9. Coughlin? the worst at 6-10.  McCarthy was 8-8, Payton was 10-6, Tomlin was 10-6, Dungy was 10-6, Cowher was 11-5.  What do those all have in common?  They are not 3-13.  In fact no coach that has won a superbowl in the past 20 years has EVER had a season as bad as a 3 win season.  Im not saying there isnt any hope for him, but its certainly not true that super bowl winning coaches dont look good in their first year.

[SkinsFTW]

139 times since 2012 a team has received the ball down 2 scores or less with 3 minutes or less to go.

 

Only once has the team punted.

 

That was us. Yesterday. Because our head coach told us to quit.

 

How do you bring that guy back?

 

Is this not a trend with our 1st year head coach?

 

When the run doesn't work 2 times. He quits.

 

When any QB starts playing like garbage. He quits.

 

And this isn't the first game where we've quit near the end. There were other games where it was run the clock out late in the 4th.

 

Gruden doesn't seem to be head coach material but WTH, lets give him his full 5 years to prove it.

Yup, totally agree. But I would say that, in order to find that GM you mention here (one with a complete view), he should be a great talent evaluator himself. It'd certainly be an asset for him in helping him get to that "complete view" and understand fully what the scouts are doing, you know? 

 

I'd bet that finding a good GM is a simple task. Alot of teams have good GM's and they are all 1st time GM's. The problem is that Snyder has never looked for one. He just hired his retread buddies that no other team wanted as their GM because they are football dumb.

Hell, it seems like 1/3 of the leagues GM's are either former Redskins players or former Redskins FO people.

[Laron Burgundy]

I was all about hey - griffin is a problem child and needs to get his act together.

Then Gruden quit. He quit with 1:35 left to go yesterday.

I don't know how you bring that back.

139 times since 2012 a team has received the ball down 2 scores or less with 3 minutes or less to go.

Only once has the team punted.

That was us. Yesterday. Because our head coach told us to quit.

How do you bring that guy back?

And yet he goes for it on 4th down on our side of the field when the game is close...

[Skinsinparadise]

Did you even read what I responded to? There was a tweet that Gruden has been told he's being retained for another year. My assumption is that that means Allen is back. It really doesn't matter if anyone here wants him to be retained, as that has nothing to do with my post.

 

I got mixed emotions about Jay coming back.  On one hand in theory I agree any head coach deserves two years. And second considering the team's history its a pr disaster to can Jay after 1 year.

 

The downside is I expect this assures a drama filled off season with Jay at the helm.  Yeah this team attracts drama with or without Jay but Jay is the biggest drama attracting coach we've had IMO -- the RG3 battle is likely going to be painful to watch no matter what side of the issue you fall under.  I just don't think Jay is a good coach and would be shocked if we don't have another disaster season.  I still think Haslett is likely to go but Jay staying here gives Haslett at least a fighting chance.    And most importantly on the downside, this helps Bruce, less likely to see a new personnel guy.  Jay is unlikely to push out his family friend who gave him the job.  

[endzone_dave]

Cooley on 980 yesterday said that most of the RG3 sacks against the Giants were on RG3 - he wasn't getting the ball to the open guys.  If what Cooley is saying is true, then it's going to be tough on a coach when the QB can't run your offense.  Do you scrap your entire coaching experience or do you get in a QB who can execute what you're trying to do.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Gruden and Griffin are neighbors? That sucks lol

[MattFancy]

Cooley on 980 yesterday said that most of the RG3 sacks against the Giants were on RG3 - he wasn't getting the ball to the open guys.  If what Cooley is saying is true, then it's going to be tough on a coach when the QB can't run your offense.  Do you scrap your entire coaching experience or do you get in a QB who can execute what you're trying to do.

 

Cooley seems to be really protective of the OL all season though. Not saying he's wrong, but he seems to think the OL isn't a big issue.

[Hersh]

Well, from those that have won the superbowl, most of them looked like super bowl coaches their first year.  A few were pretty mediocre, none were 3-13.  Harbaugh was 11-5 his first year with the Ravens.  Caroll? 7-9. Coughlin? the worst at 6-10.  McCarthy was 8-8, Payton was 10-6, Tomlin was 10-6, Dungy was 10-6, Cowher was 11-5.  What do those all have in common?  They are not 3-13.  In fact no coach that has won a superbowl in the past 20 years has EVER had a season as bad as a 3 win season.  Im not saying there isnt any hope for him, but its certainly not true that super bowl winning coaches dont look good in their first year.

 

It's always amusing when someone tries to not only cherry pick stats to prove a point but also to qualify losing seasons by coaches. So having losing seasons is ok and you are still considered a possible super bowl coach as long as they win at least 5 games?

[Rodriggo]

Nothing Gruden has done this year instills any confidence in the fan base moving forward. He grades out as an F- after one year, not a single positive with the extra credit of fabricating a ******** QB controversy half way through the season.

 

I will say he seems surprisingly calm about the whole season, even jovial about quitting like a ******* ***** last week.

 

Either he knows something we don't or he really is just a moron. I suspect the latter.

 

This whole year has screamed out "mismatch" in terms of style & personnel and yet for the sake of the fragile psyche of this pathetic franchise they will stay the course and be a g damn nightmare again b/c they literally know no better.

 

Griffin will be retained, he will "win" the QB1 spot in training camp, be marginally better in the pocket but not enough to please anyone, he'll get benched for Cousins who will throw pick after pick and we're off to the races again. The chant next year will be "clean slate" again, RINSE.....AND......REPEAT.

[RandyHolt]

I find it rather telling that almost like clockwork, the QBs that do the best have been coached up the least.

 

Yep the guy coming off the bench with the least reps, always seems to look better than the starter to me.

 

That tells me coaching up is failing.

 

Interesting nugget coming out from Rambo about how (on defense at least) we do drill work on video's. Whatever it is we are doing, on both sides of the ball, is failing.

 

It all comes back to Gruden.

[Brokenstriker]

If the rookie HC with a multi-year guarenteed contract is cut after his first season ...

If the offense and "franchise" QB have to learn yet another new offense (3 in 4 years) ...

If the team's talent is tailored for yet another HC and scheme that doesn't work here anymore ...

 

FIRE ALLEN and hire someone with experience building winning NFL football staffs and rosters

I find it rather telling that almost like clockwork, the QBs that do the best have been coached up the least.

 

Yep the guy coming off the bench with the least reps, always seems to look better than the starter to me.

 

That tells me coaching up is failing.

 

Interesting nugget coming out from Rambo about how (on defense at least) we do drill work on video's. Whatever it is we are doing, on both sides of the ball, is failing.

 

It all comes back to Gruden.

not that the coach isn't failing ... but usually this reason, the guy coming off the bench playing better, is almost universally linked to the fact that defense did not prep to play against the back-up QB

[skins4eva]

I find it rather telling that almost like clockwork, the QBs that do the best have been coached up the least.

 

Yep the guy coming off the bench with the least reps, always seems to look better than the starter to me.

 

That tells me coaching up is failing.

 

Interesting nugget coming out from Rambo about how (on defense at least) we do drill work on video's. Whatever it is we are doing, on both sides of the ball, is failing.

 

It all comes back to Gruden.

 

I saw all I needed to see from Gruden on Sunday.  The man is too dumb to be a head football coach.  No situational awareness: case in point: taking the five yard penalty at the end of the half near the goal line which put us on the five instead of the result of the play, which put us on the two.  Just absolutely brain-dead.  That play alone was enough to convince me that this guy isn't up to the task.  The details have been severely lacking all season, and not a single shred of progress made.  In fact, I'd say we've regressed in almost every conceivable metric.  Another brilliant hire by Danny Boy--that worthless ****.

[RandyHolt]

not that the coach isn't failing ... but usually this reason, the guy coming off the bench playing better, is almost universally linked to the fact that defense did not prep to play against the back-up QB

Agreed the company line is always that which you state.

 

But the league has tape on RG3. Cousins. McCoy.

 

When our team is a revolving door of QBs (good one, Jay) I would like to think a DC doesn't push all in on one or another. Or, if they do, they just go back to how the league plays RG3, and every other QB, in our system.

 

One in which they know the QB is coached up to stand in the pocket like a statute and learn.

 

The D knows the play calls reflect this. Bubble screen, Morris left, Morris right, DJax deep sack. Punt.

 

Oh and they key on Morris early, for they know Jay will abandon the run. Jay should cut them off at the pass pump/waggle to slow down the rush and go deep on the first play.

 

#TooLate

[TimmySmith]

Cooley seems to be really protective of the OL all season though. Not saying he's wrong, but he seems to think the OL isn't a big issue.

It is stemmed in the reality that the O-Line is drastically different with the different QBs.  They happen to play their worst in front of the QB that pundits claim has the worst grasp of the offense.  It leads one to believe that they are not nearly as bad as outsiders think.

[TexasSkinsFan]

I find it rather telling that almost like clockwork, the QBs that do the best have been coached up the least.

 

Yep the guy coming off the bench with the least reps, always seems to look better than the starter to me.

 

That tells me coaching up is failing.

 

Interesting nugget coming out from Rambo about how (on defense at least) we do drill work on video's. Whatever it is we are doing, on both sides of the ball, is failing.

 

It all comes back to Gruden.

 

Here's a thought...the teams QB's all have different skill sets I don't think anyone would argue that. McCoy can run the ball but comparing his rushing ability to Griffins isn't a fair contest. 

 

So your NFL team spends a week preparing for seeing one QB, then at game time has to deal with someone else...what do you actually expect the results to be? If you gave me a week to prepare for a Math test and then when I sat down to take the test you slipped me a Science test how I do on that science test says what to you about the Math test? See that simply doesn't work

 

What happens next with those QB's is they go into the next week with the Defense preparing to play them and usually they struggle and do much worse then they did in relief the next day. Why simple. Its because the opposing Defense had a week to prepare to face that guy.

 

This idea is why I've wondered why our team with three capable but unspectacular QB's didn't just say screw you to the league, Vegas, and the opposition and do what they did last week and that was to start one guy and then pull him out for someone else mid game. Whenever that happens it usually results in short term success for the offense. It's why Johnny Manziel in relief was able to come in the game and march his team down the field and score a TD and the next week couldn't even put up 100 passing yards in the entire game. Defenses aren't ever ready for that.

 

Anyway "coaching up" actually does show to be working when the backup who takes less then 10% reps during the week in practive and then comes in prepared to play the game and does well. The only way a backup comes in and looks good to me is if he was "coached up". I tend to disagree that a backup QB coming in and looking good means that the QB coaching is flawed in some way when clearly its not. The problem with these QB's is simple.

 

The problem is this offensive line averages giving up 7 sacks a game. When your offensive line is that bad it not only gets into the QB's head it affects every single thing about the offense. I would be willing to bet if the line hadn't struggled so much this year Cousins wouldn't have dropped off the map like he did, Griffin wouldn't have looked as bad as he did, and McCoy wouldn't have looked as good as he did.

 

McCoy has a lot of experience in the league and knows how better to handle situations then Griffin or Cousins has. He has looked much better then those guys because he has seen it all. Hell if it wasn't for Grudens ability to "coach up" those guys Colt wouldn't have started a game this year. Anyway, fix the offensive line FIRST and then judge the QB. Your not going to get an accurate view of any of those guys when they are lying on their backs half the game and to judge them with this offensive line is not helping them or us any. The line must be fixed

[War Paint]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/16/jay-gruden-gives-lukewarm-assessment-of-desean-praises-maclin/

 

Via Reuben Frank of CSNPhilly.com, Washington coach Jay Gruden gave a lukewarm-at-best assessment of Jackson during a Tuesday conference call with the Philadelphia media.

“He’s a very good wide receiver but . . . the last couple weeks he’s been dealing with an injury and he hasn’t been quite the same,” Gruden said. “I’m a ‘what-have-you-done-for-me-lately’ kind of guy and lately we haven’t seen the DeSean we need to see.”

 

This guy doesn't have the patience to be a good HC.  Gruden is too impulsive.  His "what have you done for me lately" comment explains why we've seen a QB carousel.  Eventually, his calling out players is going to result in the team quitting on him.  It seems to me that Gruden has the old Snyder "impatient" gene.

 

I know that the Skins supposedly said he's coming back, but I kind of agree with what Czabe said last night.  Czabe said he thought Gruden had a 50/50 shot at coming back.  After the report came out last night about him coming back, Czabe said it slightly shifted the odds of him coming back to 52/48.  

 

I still don't think it's set in stone that he's coming back, especially if we get embarrassed at home the next two games against division rivals.

[RandyHolt]

Here's a thought...the teams QB's all have different skill sets I don't think anyone would argue that. McCoy can run the ball but comparing his rushing ability to Griffins isn't a fair contest. 

 

So your NFL team spends a week preparing for seeing one QB, then at game time has to deal with someone else...what do you actually expect the results to be? If you gave me a week ..

 

Not that I disagree but...

 

Conversely, teams with CRAPPY QB play, wouldn't they switch QB's every game?

 

Announce to the world RG3 is the starter. Let the threads pile up on how much Dan controls the team.

 

Yank him after a series.

 

Win.

 

We are told how important it is for first team practice reps but it sure seems offset by defenses not preparing the same. It's all a wash perhaps.

 

Or Gruden is in over his head coaching up the entire team when really his forte appears to be working with a single QB. Even that, is a small sample size - Dalton.

[Hooterman]

I think firing Gruden after year 1 is crazy.  Not that he hasn't made his share of mistakes, but the ink has barely dried on his contract.  Our problem goes way beyond Gruden and that is where Dan should focus.  Think about this, prior to the season start most so called experts said the Redskins were maybe a playoff team, but likely more like an 8 or 9 win team at best.  That was assuming that RG3 was going to return to 2012 form and we had players with names like Orakpo, Merriweather, D. Hall, Jordan Reed, Cofield, and Bowen assumed to be starters (not trying to make the point that any of these folks are great, but merely just who was penciled in at the time).  Well, The first three are done for the year and we are playing with names like Ducre, T. Compton, a revolving door at safety, and whatever plastic army men you can find at various positions.  And RG3 has looked nothing like 2012, nor has Kirk Cousins battled him for the starters job like some thought might happen.  In other words, the roster is well below NFL playoff caliber material and we are starting what most teams would consider depth chart players.  I'll echo what many have said needs to happen and that are changes at the top, i.e. Bruce Allen, AJ Smith, etc.  Our personnel folks have got to be close to the worst in the league. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I think firing Gruden after year 1 is crazy.  ...

 

Paragraphs are your friend...

[Hooterman]

Paragraphs are your friend...

 

It's a freakin' social board, not an English test. 

[TexasSkinsFan]

Not that I disagree but...

 

Conversely, teams with CRAPPY QB play, wouldn't they switch QB's every game?

 

Announce to the world RG3 is the starter. Let the threads pile up on how much Dan controls the team.

 

Yank him after a series.

 

Win.

 

We are told how important it is for first team practice reps but it sure seems offset by defenses not preparing the same. It's all a wash perhaps.

 

Or Gruden is in over his head coaching up the entire team when really his forte appears to be working with a single QB. Even that, is a small sample size - Dalton.

 

You bring up a great point. The Cowboys this year are having a great season and I think we need to look at why

 

Three first round picks on the starting offensive line

Head coach does not call any plays

 

Just stopping there but I think that your onto something.

 

As for teams with crappy QB's and your question let me answer with a question. How many teams in the league today have

 

1. Crappy QB situation not caused by injury

2. Different skill sets with the QB's like the Redskins

 

The worst QB situations in the league today include

 

Oakland Raiders - They have Derek Carr and Matt Schuab. They are the same players

Kansas City - They have Alex Smith and Chase Daniel. They are the same players

Tampa Bay - They have Josh McCown and Mike Glennon. They are the same players

NY JETS - They have Mike Vick and Geno Smith, They are the same players

Jacksonville - They have Blaine Gabb...whoops they have Chad Henne and Brotles. Same guys there too

 

I'm leaving out teams that are a mess at the QB position because of injuries (Texans etc) and really can't come up with a QB situation like ours. When I say they are the same players I'm strictly speaking about the style of play. If one guys a pocket passer and his backup is as well then you can't play match ups like you could if one guys a statue in the pocket and the other ones running all over the field. I think the Redskins are pretty unique in that fashion

 

On this team after they got rid of the rules prohibiting backups playing it would make for some very interesting football if they were to play different series let alone quarters or halves with these guys playing different offenses but it would be horrific on fantasy football so maybe that's a bad idea hahah

[Voice_of_Reason]

It's a freakin' social board, not an English test. 

The reason I pointed it out is because you made a good point, but it's insanely difficult to read. 

[Hooterman]

On this team after they got rid of the rules prohibiting backups playing it would make for some very interesting football if they were to play different series let alone quarters or halves with these guys playing different offenses but it would be horrific on fantasy football so maybe that's a bad idea hahah

 

How about playing both RG3 and either KC/CM at the same time?  Ha ha, put them both in the backfield and snap to either one of them.  Keep the D on their toes.  Kind of like a weird wildcat.   

[fwo40]

Every time this idiot opens his mouth I cringe. It's not only that our players are bad - far from it.  jay was not ready to be an NFL headcoach he is manic in the press and then static and sinking in games. Jay Gruden is a sham.  The same way Allen is a sham....they are football nepotism run amuck.  And the reason to keep them both is for stability?   Great I'll be enjoying another 2 seasons of sub 5 wins....nice and stable.