PFT: Report: Snyder, Allen may side with RG3 and fire Gruden

[darrelgreenie]

You think the 49ers are "turned around"? Have you seen Kaepernick play or how they are doing this year? And you think he could coach up RG3? HA!

The 49ers have turned around since Harbaugh became HC you can't really argue against that. It is inaccurate and dishonest to say Harbaugh did not turn the 49ers around during his tenure.

Kaepernick is having a down season no doubt and the 49ers are having a down year. But it would be the ultimate prisoner of the moment to suggest that this season represents the sum of Harbaugh's tenure.

 

And even though i'm not advocating for it and merely answering your question. Yes, I believe that Harbaugh could coach of Griffin because he wouldn't shy away from the process and he wouldn't turn his back on his QB. Harbs has stuck by and supported Kaep through his struggles.

[3200fps]

The 49ers have turned around since Harbaugh became HC you can't really argue against that. It is inaccurate and dishonest to say Harbaugh did not turn the 49ers around during his tenure.

Kaepernick is having a down season no doubt and the 49ers are having a down year. But it would be the ultimate prisoner of the moment to suggest that this season represents the sum of Harbaugh's tenure.

 

And even though i'm not advocating for it and merely answering your question. Yes, I believe that Harbaugh could coach of Griffin because he wouldn't shy away from the process and he wouldn't turn his back on his QB. Harbs has stuck by and supported Kaep through his struggles.

 

I agree with 99% of this.  The only catch about Harbaugh supporting Kaep through his struggles is he did draft him himself, Gruden never "picked" Bob.

[PeterMP]

There several problems with your post. Sack % doesn't trump all the categories and mentioning Cousins is counter to your point since he was worse in literally every other QB metric. And going back to QB rating it leaves out positives attributes/metrics that would be in Griffin's favor like rushing yards, rushing 1st/TDs, playmaking, and overall impact of a run game that is forced to hold backside contain.

 

This is about accuracy and perception. If you want to say Griffin didn't play as well as he did in 2012 that's true, if you want to say Griffin didn't play up his expectations that's also true, if you want to say Griffin was average that's also true. But saying Griffin played poorly or sucked that's not true.

 

But, we can agree to disagree.

 

 

How about this, in the context of the passing offense, RGIII played poorly last year.

 

Maybe when you add in his ability to rush and help force back side contain, he was average (or maybe even better than average).

 

But that's not really what you were talking about or the piece you cited, which went to quarter back rating, was talking about.

I agree with 99% of this.  The only catch about Harbaugh supporting Kaep through his struggles is he did draft him himself, Gruden never "picked" Bob.

 

And not only did a draft him, but then he doubled down on his ability to lead the team forward by trading away Alex Smith who at least was doing pretty good when he traded him and has done at least okay as a Chief.

 

Harbaugh has essentially bet on Kaep going forward twice.

[DJD2]

Let's play a game called, "Guess the Quarterback"

 

I will provide statistics, without trying any funny business by looking them up, I want you to rank the QBs that you'd want.

 

 

 

C first

 

B second

 

A last

[KDawg]

C first

 

B second

 

A last

 

Since you're the only one who played:

 

You chose: Ryan Tannehill first

 

Jason Campbell second.

 

Robert Griffin III third.

[DJD2]

Since you're the only one who played:

 

 

 

That's interesting.

 

Tannehill and Cambell are almost the same guy, but I doubt I would have acknowledged that on name recognition alone.

 

My main reason for picking Griffin last was the sack percentage, even though he had a better TD/INT ratio.

 

I think if you just asked me to rank those 3 by name without any stats I would have gone Tannehill then Griffin then Campbell.

[darrelgreenie]

I agree with 99% of this.  The only catch about Harbaugh supporting Kaep through his struggles is he did draft him himself, Gruden never "picked" Bob.

Sure.

But Harbs also embraced Alex Smith, the QB Harbaugh inherited. A QB who didn't have the pedigree that Griffin has and was already considered bust when Harbs got there.  But instead of giving up on him, quickly. Harbaugh an actual QB guru developed him and had success with him and turned him into a valuable asset for the team to trade that turned into two second-rounders -- into five players:

Tank Carradine, DE (second round, 2013)

Corey Lemonier, LB (third round, 2013)

Carlos Hyde, RB (second round, 2014)

Chris Borland, LB (third round, 2014)

Stevie Johnson, WR (trade for 2015 fourth-round pick)

 

That's coaching.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

You'd be pretty butt hurt if Gruden did to Robert what Harbaugh did to Alex Smith. You think Gruden wasn't fully committed to Robert? Harbaugh drafted a quarterback right away and could not wait to insert him into the lineup. Smith was tearing it up but lost his job because he got hurt.

[Rodriggo]

The 49ers have turned around since Harbaugh became HC you can't really argue against that. It is inaccurate and dishonest to say Harbaugh did not turn the 49ers around during his tenure.

Kaepernick is having a down season no doubt and the 49ers are having a down year. But it would be the ultimate prisoner of the moment to suggest that this season represents the sum of Harbaugh's tenure.

 

And even though i'm not advocating for it and merely answering your question. Yes, I believe that Harbaugh could coach of Griffin because he wouldn't shy away from the process and he wouldn't turn his back on his QB. Harbs has stuck by and supported Kaep through his struggles.

 

Willis and Bowman got injured, only their two best defenders.

[ThomasRoane]

Synder can go F*** himself!  I'm so sick of this sh**!  I want a winning organization with an owner who has the sense to stay the hell out of football decisions like the Ravens.  ENOUGH OF THE BS!!

 

You know?  Been a fan since Lombardi coached.  Became a fanatic when I got my Chris Hanburger signed photo and a letter in 1972.  If Snyder keeps Allen and RGIII to fire Gruden then I'll give my support to the Ravens.  At least they're close to home, always a contender and grown ups are in charge of that organization. 

[PeterMP]

Sure.

But Harbs also embraced Alex Smith, the QB Harbaugh inherited. A QB who didn't have the pedigree that Griffin has and was already considered bust when Harbs got there.  But instead of giving up on him, quickly. Harbaugh an actual QB guru developed him and had success with him and turned him into a valuable asset for the team to trade that turned into two second-rounders -- into five players:

Tank Carradine, DE (second round, 2013)

Corey Lemonier, LB (third round, 2013)

Carlos Hyde, RB (second round, 2014)

Chris Borland, LB (third round, 2014)

Stevie Johnson, WR (trade for 2015 fourth-round pick)

 

That's coaching.

 

It didn't matter who you hired this year, a SF style turn around wasn't going to happen.

 

And if you fire Gruden, it isn't going to happen next year.

 

other than through pure dumb look (like in 2012 which was driven largely by things like unreproducible fumble recovery rates).

 

As has been laid out through various threads, this team is talent defeceint through issues related to lack of drafting, the cap penalty, and I'd argue years (going back to Gibbs) of general roster mismanagement (why is Santana Moss on this team?)

 

The situation in SF was completely different.

[ZRagone]

Let's play a game called, "Guess the Quarterback"

I'll play. Hoping you did one of ours and two randoms, rather than all 3 ours Will make it more interesting.

Going just off these stats, with the caveat that they harldy tell the whole story...

I went and ranked each of them 1 through 3 on each of those category.

TD:Int, YPA, QBR, Sacks, Fumbles

A: 1, 1, 1, 3, 3

B: 3, 3, 3, 1, 2

C: 2, 2, 2, 2, 1

Lower better, I came out with a tie between A and C, with B coming in behind both.

Then I weighted them. Note, I didn't find any of those things SIGNIFICANTLY more important than the other, so the heaviest was only wieghted as 140%

TD:INT 140% - - - TD's are important, lack of turnovers are important

Fumbles 130% - - - Just slightly less important, as its just the turnover

QB Rating 120% - - - Factor of accuracy, turnovers, TD's

Yards per Attempt 110% - - - I want chunk yardage

Sacks 100% - - - They hurt, but able to be overcame more than turnovers.

This gives me in the end a ranking of:

1st place: A at 10.6

2nd place: C at 10.7

3rd place: B at 14.7

[darrelgreenie]

It didn't matter who you hired this year, a SF style turn around wasn't going to happen......

The situation in SF was completely different.

Completely different discussion, no need to move the goal posts.

[Skinsinparadise]

Ironically major Shanny homer and far from RG3 homer, Kevin Sheehan said today (he has hinted in recent shows he's talked to Shanny recently) that he's learned the following:

 

A.  Shanny did want RG3

B.  Shanny told Danny BEFORE acquiring him that it would take 3-4 years to transition him to be a pocket passer, and Danny would need to be patient with him

 

Now earlier on this thread I posted articles where Shanny was even quoted in the later stages of 2013 (even after the bad game against SF) that it will take time to develop RG3 but he works hard, is talented and will get there.  The whole narrative that this is the 2nd HC in a row who didn't believe in his abilities doesn't look to be true.   The idea that two coaches in a row don't click with RG3 personally, that seems to be the story. 

 

I never thought I'd be pimping Shanny on RG3.  But to me there is a big difference between Jay and Shanny on the player.  1.  Shanny praised RG3's talent plenty and gave no indication that I noticed with him thinking he'd be a bust.  2. He stressed patience, numerous times he said "it takes time" numerous times he stressed "patience".   Yeah he benched him at the end of the season but with all the leaks none of them included that I recall this guy really stinks -- the hits centered on RG3's personality.  Gruden on the other hand is saying RG3 is no good and clearly has no patience for him.  

 

My point is that while Shanny and RG3 didn't click personally or saw things eye to eye -- it actually might have been nirvana for him compared to now where you got  a HC that doesn't believe in him and has no patience to develop him. 

[carex]

I never bought into all the hype of his so called ego. Not to be stereotypical, but overwhelmingly all the religous people I have met in life have been super humble.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the media decided to blackball RG3 was the fact he always gives credit to God and family. He never shied away from it, after he TD pass or run he pointed upwards in acknowledgement to his creator.

 

no one talked about Griffin's ego when he was playing well.  The Skins aren't doing well, and jumping on a nice guy who's trying hard and failing isn't as okay with people as jumping on a bad guy.

[PeterMP]

 

Completely different discussion, no need to move the goal posts.

 

No it isn't.  The reason the 49ers got so much (anything?) for Smith was because they were able to show that while he was limited, you could win games with him in the NFL.

 

If you bring Harbaugh here and give him Smith, Smith in theory probably plays better.  People that really study QB play probably could look at him and say he's doing better.  It probably would have even shown up in his number and maybe would have affected Ws and Ls at some level.

 

But the rest of the team would have still been bad, the affect on Ws and Ls would have been limited, and Smith's weaknesses would have been still obvious.

 

And the return for Smith would have been less (and potentially nothing).

 

The existing talent on the 49ers was directly related to the ability of the 49ers to obtain what they did for Smith.

[darrelgreenie]

No it isn't..

Well the sky IS blue! lol.

You can post whatever you want to say about the 49ers without responding to my post.

We are not talking about the same thing.

[codeorama]

no one talked about Griffin's ego when he was playing well.  The Skins aren't doing well, and jumping on a nice guy who's trying hard and failing isn't as okay with people as jumping on a bad guy.

 

Not true at all.  There were lots of people, me included, that didn't like Griffin's social media, ego, all out ad warfare personality right from the beginning.  He just rubbed me the wrong way.  Focused on everything but football.

[carex]

Not true at all.  There were lots of people, me included, that didn't like Griffin's social media, ego, all out ad warfare personality right from the beginning.  He just rubbed me the wrong way.  Focused on everything but football.

 

you know why he decided to do ads right out of college(besides the fact he had no reason to turn down offers) 

 

He saved his players salary and lived off them.  That shows intelligence, foresight and frankly acting on the knowledge bad **** can happen to you shows lack of ego to me.

[VRIEL1]

It would cost less to get rid of RG3.

 

Just saying I imagine RG3 has probably 1 to 3 mill this year to earn while Gruden will be getting $4 mill over the next 4 years. If RG3 sucks they can cut ties with him and only be hit for a 1 year penalty. Gruden will hurt this team for the next 4 years whether he's coaching or not. Plus the team would have to pay another person to be the HC. Double whammy.

Not true at all.  There were lots of people, me included, that didn't like Griffin's social media, ego, all out ad warfare personality right from the beginning.  He just rubbed me the wrong way.  Focused on everything but football.

 

I think what ticked me off more then anything was him being labeled the "Franchise" QB and he had not played a game in the NFL. How about just drafting a QB and "IF" he turns out to be a great player let the term "Franchise" QB be his label then. I sit back and laugh at the supposed "Franchise" QB not doing his job.

[profusion]

 My point is that while Shanny and RG3 didn't click personally or saw things eye to eye -- it actually might have been nirvana for him compared to now where you got  a HC that doesn't believe in him and has no patience to develop him. 

 

That's assuming a lot from a the relative handful of public comments that Gruden has made. My recollection is that Gruden stated essentially that Griffin has a lot to learn, which is what you're saying was also Shanahan's position prior to the 2012 season.

 

It's possible that the worst thing that could have happened to Griffin was the 2012 season. He needed to do a Theismann and sit on the bench for several years while he learned a skill set to go along with his incredible ability. I still think he needs to do that, but he'll probably never get the chance--certainly not in the toxic atmosphere surrounding the Redskins.