PFT: Report: Snyder, Allen may side with RG3 and fire Gruden

[chipwhich]

wrong

 

Care to make a friendly wager?

[carex]

 

Care to make a friendly wager?

 

 

I don't bet. 

[chipwhich]

I don't bet. 

 

That's a good thing for you in this case.

[dsciambi]

I understand that Griffin is very likely gone next year. I understand that many of you don't like him.

But can we at least be accurate about his play?

The whole Griffin did not play well in 2013 year is simply inaccurate.

Many of the same people that say Griffin was bad in 2013 think Cousins was good, SMH.

Don't take my word for it though because whenever Griffin comes up some people blood rise and they become too angry to listen/read to other posters so...............

Every should read the article above^^^

Second, this season with Gruden was supposed to be a blank slate.

And im any honest assessment even Griffin at a minimum played 2 bad games (49ers+Tampa), 1 decent game (Houston), 1 good (Vikings) ironically during a short week of prep with Colt's game plan.

Lets not be prisoners of recency and let Griffin's 2 bad games, one of which was the literally the worst game of his career, come to represent the sum of his ability.

These posts drive me crazy. Yes, statistically he wasn't bad. But watching him actually play was and is painful. It's just like after the Houston game where all I heard about was how it was such a statistically good game. I felt like the stats people didn't watch the game though, because I saw a terrible QB there just as everyone else did against the Bucs.

[carex]

That's a good thing for you in this case.

 

better for you.

 

Snyder hasn't gotten rid of a coach after one year since Schottenheimer and you just have to look at their free agent history to know they don't throw people away quickly. 

[Bacon]

 

Unless Gruden quits, he is your coach next year and RG3 is elsewhere.

 

 

Nah, we'll let Griffin finish his contract. Gruden will hopefully feign legitimate leadership qualities and fire Haslett, which will buy him another 6-8 games or so. If we're this bad next year, he won't finish the year.

[chipwhich]

better for you.

 

Snyder hasn't gotten rid of a coach after one year since Schottenheimer and you just have to look at their free agent history to know they don't throw people away quickly. 

 

You are arguing against yourself.  Gruden will be here next year.  RG3 won't

[grantarchy]

Care to make a friendly wager?

As someone who would not shed a tear to see rg3 pack his bags I'm not seeing the slam dunk that if gruden is here he is gone. During Snyders tenure we traditionally keep guys that underperform. Snyder has more of a history of that by a long shot than admitting he's wrong, and letting rg3 go would be a collosal admission that he again whiffed.

[The Wicked Wop]

Care to make a friendly wager?

What is the wager?.....no I'm not betting my Mustang

[s0crates]

Yesterday I was ready to fire Gruden, frankly I'm really not impressed with the guy.  My main complaint is that he doesn't seem to be very good at the one thing he was supposed to be really good at, which is developing quarterbacks. Given that, if I had to choose between Griffin and Gruden, I think I would take my chances with Griffin.

 

That said, upon further consideration I have come back to the attitude I had last week, which is that I hope they are both here next year.  

 

If Gruden goes and Griffin stays, who knows who we could get to come coach this team, especially considering the likely (and probably justified) perception that our quarterback is a coach killer. If Griffin goes and Gruden stays, then we will have bailed on a guy who won us the division as a rookie before his rookie contract expires.  

 

Neither of those outcomes look very good to me, and I see only two other possibilities, the exceedingly unlikely scenario that has neither of them here next year, or (what I'm hoping for) that both are back.  I'm not thrilled with either Griffin or Gruden, and this should not be taken as a ringing endorsement of either, but perhaps our best option is to stay the course with Griffin and Gruden for another season, if only because the other options are even worse.

[Supreme Wu]

I'm more willing to give Griffin another year than Gruden. 

 

But the fact that we have to choose between the two after one season together is further proof of how broken this team is.

 

Agreed on both fronts.

[TSO]

Do you think there are any other professional sports teams where the owner has the same guy who is in charge of evaluating, analyzing, and building the roster & coaching staff also spending time organizing ****ing harvest fests, golf tournaments, and alumni dinners?

I honestly would love someone who has knowledge on the matter to answer this.

I also wonder how many posters here read that and forced themselves to forget they ever did, lol.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I understand that Griffin is very likely gone next year. I understand that many of you don't like him.

But can we at least be accurate about his play?

The whole Griffin did not play well in 2013 year is simply inaccurate.

Many of the same people that say Griffin was bad in 2013 think Cousins was good, SMH.

Don't take my word for it though because whenever Griffin comes up some people blood rise and they become too angry to listen/read to other posters so...............

Every should read the article above^^^

 

Second, this season with Gruden was supposed to be a blank slate.

And im any honest assessment even Griffin at a minimum played 2 bad games (49ers+Tampa), 1 decent game (Houston), 1 good (Vikings) ironically during a short week of prep with Colt's game plan.

 

Lets not be prisoners of recency and let Griffin's 2 bad games, one of which was the literally the worst game of his career, come to represent the sum of his ability.

I have no problem with RG3 as a person.

 

I've read that article before. I also don't think Flacco or Eli are good QBs so I don't really get excited reading that. He didn't play well last season. Sorry. Also, I've stated that KC sucks on many occasions so that point is quite irrelevant as well. 

 

He had a chance to completely erase it this season and failed again. Simple as that. 

 

Agree to disagree

[Tyron Biggums]

 

Unless Gruden quits, he is your coach next year and RG3 is elsewhere.

 

I do not see it that way. Hell, who knows maybe RG3 and Gruden walked from their front yards to meet in the middle of the street, both of them with a bottle of 30 year old scotch. They proceeded to take a seat on the curb and sucked the bottom out of those bottles, then proceeded to kick the **** out of each other. And it dawned on them that they both want the samething. They want to bring a winnner to DC, hugged and made up.

 

Damn, this season has me grasping at straws like never before.

 

 

HELP ME! LOL

[carex]

I have no problem with RG3 as a person.

 

I've read that article before. I also don't think Flacco or Eli are good QBs so I don't really get excited reading that. He didn't play well last season. Sorry. Also, I've stated that KC sucks on many occasions so that point is quite irrelevant as well. 

 

He had a chance to completely erase it this season and failed again. Simple as that. 

 

Agree to disagree

 

 

man, I think your standards for a good QB are way to high

[carex]

I do not see it that way. Hell, who knows maybe RG3 and Gruden walked from their front yards to meet in the middle of the street, both of them with a bottle of 30 year old scotch. They proceeded to take a seat on the curb and sucked the bottom out of those bottles, then proceeded to kick the **** out of each other. And it dawned on them that they both want the samething. They want to bring a winnner to DC, hugged and made up.

 

Damn, this season has me grasping at straws like never before.

 

 

HELP ME! LOL

 

well seriously, lonely RG3 punting the ball seems to have messed with the idea of this huge ego some

[zCommander]

Gruden and RG3 will be back next year. Hazbeen not so much.

[Tyron Biggums]

well seriously, lonely RG3 punting the ball seems to have messed with the idea of this huge ego some

I never bought into all the hype of his so called ego. Not to be stereotypical, but overwhelmingly all the religous people I have met in life have been super humble.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the media decided to blackball RG3 was the fact he always gives credit to God and family. He never shied away from it, after he TD pass or run he pointed upwards in acknowledgement to his creator.

[KDawg]

Let's play a game called, "Guess the Quarterback"

 

I will provide statistics, without trying any funny business by looking them up, I want you to rank the QBs that you'd want.

 

Quarterback A:

1.9:1 TD:INT ratio

7.4 Yards Per Attempt

90.8 rating

Sacked on 8.4% of dropbacks

0.81 fumbles/game

 

 

Quarterback B:

1.44:1 TD:INT ratio

6.6 Yards Per Attempt

82.3 rating

Sacked on 6.2% of dropbacks

0.65 fumbles/game

 

Quarterback C:

1.46:1 TD:INT ratio

6.7 YPA

83.2 rating

Sacked on 7.7% of dropbacks

0.55 fumbles/game

 

I'm not really looking to prove anything. Just threw together a list of three quarterbacks. Was curious what people said (oh, and for the record, stats don't ever tell the entire story. Ever.)

[Zguy28]

I'm down with RG3, Harbaugh (even though I can't stand him, I think he can turn things around like SF), Rex Ryan for DC, and a new o line!

You think the 49ers are "turned around"? Have you seen Kaepernick play or how they are doing this year? And you think he could coach up RG3? HA!

[Rskins06]

You think the 49ers are "turned around"? Have you seen Kaepernick play or how they are doing this year? And you think he could coach up RG3? HA!

Agree, they want to run Kaep out of town in SF because he is having a hard time adjusting to an offense not based on the Pistol or Read Option. If Rob stays, we DEFINITELY do not want Harbaugh here.

However, I really don't believe Rob is here next year anyway, unless he is ok with sittin the bench. I don't see him winning a straight up QB competition against Kirk.

[carex]

Agree, they want to run Kaep out of town in SF because he is having a hard time adjusting to an offense not based on the Pistol or Read Option. If Rob stays, we DEFINITELY do not want Harbaugh here.

However, I really don't believe Rob is here next year anyway, unless he is ok with sittin the bench. I don't see him winning a straight up QB competition against Kirk.

 

if Kirk throws INTs during the preseason the way he did during the season I'm pretty sure he would

[PeterMP]

I understand that Griffin is very likely gone next year. I understand that many of you don't like him.

But can we at least be accurate about his play?

The whole Griffin did not play well in 2013 year is simply inaccurate.

Many of the same people that say Griffin was bad in 2013 think Cousins was good, SMH.

 

There are several problems with this argument.

 

The easiest to point is that things like the QB rating doesn't take into account things like sacks.

 

Griffin is averaging a sack % of 8.4 over his career and last year he was at 7.7%.

 

Cousins over the same time on the same team is at 3.8% and Cousins is a young QB, but let's assume that Cousins is even average with respect to taking sacks (which I actually doubt).

 

Now, when Griffin was lighting things up with his arm and his legs, you can live with that sack rate, but when you are "average" based on something like quarterback rating, then those sorts of things really hurt.

 

You get the same sort of thing with fumbles that don't affect QB rating either.  Griffin fumbles a lot.  In 2012 that was offset by the rest of his play, including an extremely low interception rate.

 

But when his play as measured by things like quarter back rating, the negative of those plays means he's not playing well.

 

Griffin played poorly last year and partly that's because he takes too many sacks (to some extent) and fumbles too much.  Those things were an issue in 2012 too, but they were off set by other things so that even with them being present, you still got a very productive player.

 

 

**EDIT**

As another way to make this point, ESPNs QBR is trying to get at some of these types of things that I raised above with respect to sacks.

 

RGIII last year had a normal rating of 82.2, which is better than 3 of Flacco's pro seasons.

 

His ESPN value was a 40.1  Flacco's lowest ESPN value is a 43.2 and that was his first season.

 

Based on the ESPN number, RGIII was worse than any year that Flacco has ever had.

[darrelgreenie]

But when his play as measured by things like quarter back rating, the negative of those plays means he's not playing well.

 

Griffin played poorly last year and partly that's because he takes too many sacks (to some extent) and fumbles too much.  Those things were an issue in 2012 too, but they were off set by other things so that even with them being present, you still got a very productive player.

There several problems with your post. Sack % doesn't trump all the categories and mentioning Cousins is counter to your point since he was worse in literally every other QB metric. And going back to QB rating it leaves out positives attributes/metrics that would be in Griffin's favor like rushing yards, rushing 1st/TDs, playmaking, and overall impact of a run game that is forced to hold backside contain.

 

This is about accuracy and perception. If you want to say Griffin didn't play as well as he did in 2012 that's true, if you want to say Griffin didn't play up his expectations that's also true, if you want to say Griffin was average that's also true. But saying Griffin played poorly or sucked that's not true.

 

But, we can agree to disagree.

[Rskins06]

if Kirk throws INTs during the preseason the way he did during the season I'm pretty sure he would

That is the ONLY way Rob has a chance to beat Kirk at a competition. Now, I am not saying Kirk is the answer either, I don't believe EITHER of them are the answer.