Gruden or RG3? Who do you choose?

[Skinsinparadise]

49ers are tuned in to stopping griffin. The two worst games of his career were against them. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes throws and the doomsday clock goes back a few minutes.

 

From a guy who is battle weary from the RG3 debates, as to some of the people who I debated on this topic if RG3 has a big game against the Colts it will be chalked up by them as a fluke, Jay dummed down the offense or something else of that ilk. 

[Koolblue13]

Whom dammit, whom.

Objective case.

there, they're,their. Don't get upset.

[Qdeathstar]

I can understand not wanting to stick with griffin. It appears he is a real looser. WHAT I CANT understand, is why 41 people here, a wide margin, want to stick with Gruden. We are loosing at special teams, we are loosing at offense, the defense is only good when it's rushing.....

Gruden has done zero to help the team.

Griffin should have to compete for a spot on the roster next season, but if we could get Jim Harbaugh or a top tier coach, get them...

Gruden is terrible.

its easy for Gruden to say "Griffin stinks" when it's gruden's Job on the line. Don't give him credit for passing the buck...

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Both will be here into 2015 so yeah...

 

It's really not that deep.

 

And LMFAO at whoever brought up Tom ****ing Cable's name. 

[dballer]

Dan Patrick put it well...will RG3 be a 2 coach or 3 coach guy? He either gets the second coach fired before the third fires him, or Jay can be the one that puts an end to it.

Rg3 will probably make the decision on the field before the season is over.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Gruden, although more so because Griffin has just been awful this year

 

I think Gruden has potential with his scheme and game planning. However team discipline has sucked (penalties), his coaching staff sucks (Forester/Haslett) and I hope to God he had nothing to do with any of the offseason signings, in particular Luavo 

[Alexa]

Hands down Gruden. But he needs to stop talking so openly to the media.

[Alexa]

I can understand not wanting to stick with griffin. It appears he is a real looser. WHAT I CANT understand, is why 41 people here, a wide margin, want to stick with Gruden. We are loosing at special teams, we are loosing at offense, the defense is only good when it's rushing.....

Gruden has done zero to help the team.

Griffin should have to compete for a spot on the roster next season, but if we could get Jim Harbaugh or a top tier coach, get them...

Gruden is terrible.its easy for Gruden to say "Griffin stinks" when it's gruden's Job on the line. Don't give him credit for passing the buck...

I think he's trying to get the right culture here. Remember he's a rookie coach coaching in a very tough place. Tough fed up

fan base, intense media and meddling owner that's butt buddies with the slumping QB. He needs time to get his type of guys in here.

[afkidd]

so in this hypothetical scenario i choose gruden. Why? Because he is a proven offensive coordinator. What has RG3 proven? Nothing. He got lucky that he didn't come out in 2013 because he would have been straight destroyed trying to run the read option. He has also proven he is injury prone. You don't keep players like that around. He also ran a HoF coach and his son out of DC. Good job.

[cakmoney61]

I'm going with Gruden.

I don't believe RG3 has the cerebral talent that's necessary to play QB at the NFL level. Look how long it took him to simply learn how to slide and I'm not sure that he's mastered that yet. If he can't figure out when to slide, reading complicated NFL defenses may be virtually impossible for him.

He appears to be just a guy or simply Bob, and it hurts a lot to say that considering the numerous high draft picks traded away to get him. In fact, that's the real tragedy in this whole stinking affair.

[ExoDus84]

Gotta stay with Grudes. Even though RG3 wasn't his draft pick, I just can't fathom that Gruden came here with the direct intent to trash Robert, get rid of him no matter what, and draft his own QB. You have to imagine he came here hoping a great QB who can run his offense was already on the roster. If Gruden has no faith in RG3, and believes he's not a good QB and can't run his offense, it's not because he made up his mind before he took the job. It would have been due to OTA's, practice, pre-season, regular season, etc.

 

Gruden has a good mind for football. I don't want to take sides, but Griff has looked bad since the beginning of 2013. It's not a recent (Gruden) issue.

[TheJerk]

Gotta go with Gruden. 

[The Wicked Wop]

My issue with Gruden is 3 fold. First Its beyond bush league to make the comments he made about Griffin in a news conference. No matter if true or how upset you are, an NFL coach can never do that. That erodes confidence across the entire roster.

2nd Gruden was suppose to be this QB guru coming in and RG3 future is up in the air and looks lost (but apparently will get another chance). Cousins trade value has evaporated. This might be the most telling as there was all these articles about Cousins being this great fit and what Gruden wanted in a QB. Now we're back to McCoy and his stellar long term potential.

Third screw trying to turn Griffin into a pocket passer in year 1........looking back this was idiotic to begin with or expect. Griffin can be far more effective rolling out constantly, designed boot legs from the pocket (count to 3 and go up the middle), every 7 plays count to 3 and throw the ball deep regardless if it's even close to a completion (keep the defense honest more often). The whole goal is keeping the defense honest which we've done a piss poor job doing.

Personally I'm disappointed with all involved because as a team we look worse off then a year ago which is just unreal looking back. I think Those in the know on the team/front office likely realize this which is why Gruden has a shorter rope then some are realizing.

[pjfootballer]

Right now, we need stability at the head coaching position. With that, I'm not saying get rid of Robert.  I'm saying that Robert needs to up his game if he wants to stay on the team. I like what Gruden has done (aside from W/L record) up to this point. He's taken over the team and is now in charge.  We all thought Shanahan was in charge, but he really wasn't.  I voted let's talk about Haslett, because at this point, there is no use choosing sides between Gruden and Robert, unless the team decides to trade Robert.

 

One thing I'd like to see in the offseason is Gruden march into Dan's office (invite Bruce too) and tell both of them, he's now making decisions about his coaching staff.  I'd like to see him clean out the rest of the Shanahan regime.  A coach CANNOT be a good coach until he gets coaches around him that he feels comfortable with and see his way of wanting to do things. That was one thing that Gibbs did his first time around.  He got rid of the George Allen/Jack Pardee coaching staff and eventually the players and brought in his own coaches and players (with the help of Beathard).

[GoDeep81]

It's a shame our QB is trying to change his game to the point of getting embarrassed every week, while our head coach hasn't bent an iota off his WCO style to try and help his struggling QB.. I just can't get behind coaches who are too hard or dumb to try different things that conform to the players they have.. It's the same dumb **** they did with the defense w/ Shanny.. Have personnel for one thing, but the coach wants to do another and it all looks like garbage..

[DJD2]

Send them both packing.

 

Griffin is toxic now and I have zero faith that Gruden can handle any aspect of being a HC.

[Zguy28]

Fire Gruden and hire Rex Ryan or Jim Harbaugh

Rex Ryan? I can no longer take anything you post seriously. Seriously.

[Jacoah]

I saw an RGIII Subway commercial this morning; I threw up a little in my mouth. That is all.

[Cliffmark1]

If we could get Harbaugh next year, I side with RG3.  If we can't then Gruden.  I don't think RG3 runs the original plays Gruden lays out during the game planning well or at all judging from coach presser.

Blow this **** up! 

 

Everyone goes except Alfred Morris, Trent Williams, and Kerrigan

I think you are missing a few players.

[codeorama]

I'm actually surprised at the poll results so far... seems that most people (at least the ones voting) are reasonable and not just RG3 fanboys.

 

Griffin has had enough time. His success was based on the Read Option, he didn't want to run that anymore.  He got rid of Shannahan.  To let him get rid of another coach is just dumb.  Give Gruden 3 years at minimum. Let him do what he wants. Its easy to be frustrated because of the lack of success, but ultimately, the problems all go back to Snyder.  

[4skins23]

Get rid of them both. A coach that cannot understand the teams' strengths and gameplan appropriately, or RG a Qb that has shown immaturity with the media comments and his decision making is bad. He is not a NFL QB. Great for college, not for the NFL.

[ZRagone]

If this was going into the season, then I'd say Griffin absolutely and passing on Gruden. I think coming into the season Griffin had more potential as a player than Gruden had as a head coach. I would've preferred a Head Coach coming in that truly believed Griffin was the guy...not simply believing in his own ability to hopefully make Griffin the guy, and if not being able to roll out someone else and succeed. That level of faith, that level of belief, I think would've been needed to properly develop and utilize Griffin in the proper fashion with the proper patience. I also don't think the relatively traditional west coast system of Gruden really fit with Griffin's skill set, nor do I think his identity on offense fit our personnel.

However, it's not the beginning of the season. Jay Gruden has a 5 year contract. Firing him at this point would likely significant hamper our ability to pay a future coach anything decent, so we'd likely be stuck with another Zorn type hire of a coach that no one necessarily wanted. Additionally, I think a 3rd coach in 3 years would be bad from a talent cohesion stand point.

So despite being very low on Gruden as a head coach...both in terms of his play calling, team discipline, his media relations, etc...you need to keep him.

As such the only two options for me are:

1. Keep Gruden, let Griffin go

2. Keep Gruden, keep Griffin

Frankly, I'm fine with either of them...however, I think the 1st is probably the better option. Not because I believe Griffin can't succeed in this league, but rather because I don't think he has a significant shot at succeeding in this situation and keeping him here will simply delay the inevitable; that we need to find a new person to be our QB of the future.

[Hooper]

It's been a rough first year for Jay, but what coach hasn't had a rough first year under this ownership? I guess Zorn did okay record-wise, but the wheels were clearly off by year's end.

 

And when it comes to RG3, let's not forget the previous coach, the one that drafted him, was pretty much done with him. So maybe we shouldn't have expected much of a QB turnaround in the first place.

[codeorama]

Guys remember, Griffin doesn't want to run Read Option.  We can't say that we should have drafted a coach that would utilize Griffin the best, because that's what Shannahan did and Griffin didn't like it. He wants to be a pocket passer.  That's what Griffin wants. I can guarantee that Gruden was picked because they felt he had the best chance to teach Griffin.  Problem is, Griffin wants to be a pocket passer but obviously isn't willing to put in the work or worse, he isn't capable of learning.

[ZRagone]

Guys remember, Griffin doesn't want to run Read Option.  We can't say that we should have drafted a coach that would utilize Griffin the best, because that's what Shannahan did and Griffin didn't like it. He wants to be a pocket passer.  That's what Griffin wants. I can guarantee that Gruden was picked because they felt he had the best chance to teach Griffin.  Problem is, Griffin wants to be a pocket passer but obviously isn't willing to put in the work or worse, he isn't capable of learning.

Yep. And I've roasted him for that. Whether it's ego, fear of being stereotyped, weak kneed over criticism, or something else...it's dumb. You shouldn't confine yourself into a little narrow box, you shouldn't ignore your god given talent, and you shouldn't strive to be the best player you can be however that can be.

However, rather than seemingly giving in and giving him "what he wants" so to speak, I still would've rather see us look around and try to find a coach that could've actually enlightened, encouraged, and convined the young man (or at least tried) than one that was essentially throwing in the towel and saying "fine, just be mr. pocket passer".

I've admitted in other threads that this is hindsight speaking. While I wasn't a huge fan of the Gruden higher, I was down on going with Briles that Gibbs Hog Heaven tried to push. In retrospect, that was likely the way to go. Would it have worked? Impossible to say. But I think it'd give me a feeling of absolute confidence one way or another in terms of Griffin and this franchise, instead of this feeling of uncertainty I've had all season.

But can't change the past. Gruden is the coach and for some odd reason we gave a brand new head coach a 5 year deal. He's here at least through next year, more likely at least the year after. While it's easy to say "it's not our money", I just can't fathom moving on from him this soon with that much tied in due to the low upside of what we'd probably have to replace him with.

Gruden stays. Griffin probably goes.