Gawker: The College Contraction Has Begun

[Zguy28]

It is to me and you.   To an idealistic 17 year old with some artistic talent who has spend her high school years working hard filling up notebooks with her drawings...  not so much.   She thinks she can make it, and Academy of Art University tells her she can make it, and they help her get all the loans...

 

They learn the hard way, a few years later.   

Too many High School art teachers in California?

[RVAbrendan]

There are plenty of majors that still prepare you for professions and trades in high demand...but if you go the route of Business, Arts, etc, you need to be prepared to differentiate yourself in a number of ways. Having a B.S. in Marketing (this is the degree I hold) and blasting it out to HR managers via LinkedIn will only get you so far. Having a degree in Marketing does nothing by itself - I have to stay in tune with the latest ways information is spread, general mindsets, new platforms, all while staying relevant in graphic design, copywriting, and selling. 

 

I think too many kids go to college and study something 'just because' they are 'supposed to', but would be much better off learning a trade as others have mentioned. College is saturated, but the journey doesn't end upon graduation. Too many folks don't realize this.

[Predicto]

Too many High School art teachers in California?

 

LOL.  Not enough, actually.   Because of Prop 13 budget cuts, most of our public school kids can no longer take art classes.  

 

But the kids come from all over the country to go to art college here.  Offering a 17 year old aspiring artist who feels trapped in Des Moines "free" loans to study art in hip San Francisco (or New York) is like offering an addict free heroin.  They are not likely to make the best long-term decision.

[Mursilis]

It is to me and you.   To an idealistic 17 year old with some artistic talent who has spend her high school years working hard filling up notebooks with her drawings...  not so much.   She thinks she can make it, and Academy of Art University tells her she can make it, and they help her get all the loans...

 

They learn the hard way, a few years later.   

 

Isn't this the point at which parents are supposed to step in and clue the child in to how the "real world" works? 

LOL.  Not enough, actually.   Because of Prop 13 budget cuts, most of our public school kids can no longer take art classes.  

 

But the kids come from all over the country to go to art college here.  Offering a 17 year old aspiring artist who feels trapped in Des Moines "free" loans to study art in hip San Francisco (or New York) is like offering an addict free heroin.  They are not likely to make the best long-term decision.

 

But loans have to be repaid - we all know that, don't we?  But then again, YOLO!! 

[Pedro]

Assuming the US is similar to the UK in this regard; I find it amusing that the older the person generally the more they put down the younger generations.

 

Stuff like responsibility gets brought up but it's pointed at the wrong group.  Children and young adults live in the world created by these older people.  Want to know why 'kids' do x, y or z?  Look to the way their grandparents/parents brought up their kids and shaped the world we live in.

 

These days kids are guilty of not being middle aged at 14......

[Zguy28]

Assuming the US is similar to the UK in this regard; I find it amusing that the older the person generally the more they put down the younger generations.

 

Stuff like responsibility gets brought up but it's pointed at the wrong group.  Children and young adults live in the world created by these older people.  Want to know why 'kids' do x, y or z?  Look to the way their grandparents/parents brought up their kids and shaped the world we live in.

 

These days kids are guilty of not being middle aged at 14......

It goes both ways you are right. We say one thing, then portray or do or don't reinforce another. "Train a child up in the way they should go and they will not depart from it." Not a promise, but a good general principle to live by.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Isn't this the point at which parents are supposed to step in and clue the child in to how the "real world" works? 

 

It is. But think for a moment. How many kids have parents who are bastions of good decision making. How many parents want their kids to be happy? How many parents want their kid to do what they love? How many parents shove their kids' accomplishments in your face and make you deep throat them until you gag about how wonderful they are? I wouldn't trust a parent to give their young adult advice any more than I trust a young adult to make smart decisions.

 

And the real problem with regards to the arts is that you CAN do it, quite successfully, if you know how. My wife is a graphic design major and get a job 1 month out of college making 48K. But she's exceptional at what she does, and she doesn't just "draw". The woman can code, she can design, she can do just about anything possible in the adobe programs, she can write exceptional content about material she knows nothing about, she can communicate and orate like a woman 10 years more experienced than her, and she's willing to work until the job is done.

 

There are things you can do with an art degree. You can levee it into architecture, mechanical art, and etc. And colleges use these type of success stories to sell the arts to 17 year old young adults who just want to get the hell out of wherever they are and follow their dream. And we as a society encourage them.

 

This is America

Anything's posible

Do what you love

 

And that's okay. You can chase those dreams. You just have to understand that, in certain fields, the tried and true "go to college, get job" method doesn't work anymore. It's now more of "go to college, do 1-3 internships, dabble in lots of self education, connect with the right person, get a little lucky". If you're willing to put that work in, like my wife, you'll still be quite successful. 

[RonArtest15]

There should be more of a focus for HS students to learn a trade.  With all the problems of loan payback, debt, etc., you have to think at some point that the juice ain't worth the squeeze. 

[SteveFromYellowstone]

And Richard Branson became a billionaire dropping out of high school.

 

Make your own destiny.  You don't have to sniff a masters if you want to make 100K a year.

 

The problem is when you have the mentality that you expect a company or the government to take care of you.

The mentality that they should take care of me? What are you even trying to say?

 

Bottom line if I was born in 1950whatever like my aunt was I would be working for the federal government right out of high school. You seriously don't see the difference? My other aunt did the same thing working for the FAA! Yeah life isn't fair but can you see how I'd be frustrated that two people I'm smarter than (not being mean)didn't have to accomplish a thing to get a job that I would have to buy a masters degree for? 

[Zguy28]

The mentality that they should take care of me? What are you even trying to say?

 

Bottom line if I was born in 1950whatever like my aunt was I would be working for the federal government right out of high school. You seriously don't see the difference? My other aunt did the same thing working for the FAA! Yeah life isn't fair but can you see how I'd be frustrated that two people I'm smarter than (not being mean)didn't have to accomplish a thing to get a job that I would have to buy a masters degree for? 

A whole lot more people in the pool these days as well though.

[zoony]

The mentality that they should take care of me? What are you even trying to say?

 

Bottom line if I was born in 1950whatever like my aunt was I would be working for the federal government right out of high school. You seriously don't see the difference? My other aunt did the same thing working for the FAA! Yeah life isn't fair but can you see how I'd be frustrated that two people I'm smarter than (not being mean)didn't have to accomplish a thing to get a job that I would have to buy a masters degree for?

$100k is where your aunt ended up not where she started

There are certain things that ES has taught me over the years and the amazing amount of kids who dream of federal government jobs is one of them. Growing up I had a lot of interaction with the federal government, and civilian GS employees were reserved for some of the most talentless people out there. If you couldn't hack it in the life insurance sales industry you went to work for the government. It was one step away from fast food. Your aunt was one of those people at one time. Things changed a bit though...

Seems like our the last twenty years the pay and benefits of federal work have gone up so much that it is actually a career aspiration for young kids. That is absolutely amazing to me that young people with the world and life in front of them want to join a bloated soul sucking beurocracy with finite earnings potential.

$80k, no accountability, 40 hours a week, unlimited educational opportunities and a job for life though, what's not to like. Jokes on me I guess. I wish I had looked at the federal government when I was 22.

[The Sisko]

One of my best friend's little sister recently told him she's going to drop out of college (she'll be a senior next semester and majoring in BioChemstry) to play video games as a profession.  Needless to say, both of their parents are dead and he felt obligated to tear her a new one. I tried talking sense into her by telling her my scenic route to my career, and she just doesn't care. These kids these days just want to do what feels right in the moment, with no concern for how it'll work out in the long term. 

 

Strangely enough, that's actually a viable job opportunity nowadays. Well, it is if you understand how the marketing/business of gaming works.

 

When I went to college I really wanted to get into TV/radio production. My Dad was an employee at Georgetown and I didn't take the free ride there because they didn't have a program and that was my passion. I went to Maryland which (sad to say) turned out to have a crappy program and didn't learn nearly as much as I could or should have. Some of that was my fault but the program was waaay underfunded. So after years of listening to my family tell me "You're not going to be able to get a job with that degree" I had the Ralphie experience when I graduated and discovered that in fact, they were right. I had shot my eye out after all. 

 

I made copies at night for a year until I could go back for a two year degree in respiratory therapy and had a job before I even finished school. I wasn't getting rich but it was a decent living. After I got tired of RT, I decided to go back for a grad degree, in part because I was working for Emory Healthcare and I could get an almost free ride. Remembering my Georgetown mistake, I made sure to jump on that opportunity. I did have some trouble finding an internship but it eventually worked out. However, even if it hadn't I had a backup plan - opening my own liquor store. Not glamourous but who cares? Not something I'd love doing per se, but I would have made significantly more than I am now.

 

I think the kids nowadays have it a bit tougher than we did but guess what, people in my generation had it a little tougher (in some ways anyway) than my parents did. The sooner they learn that life isn't fair and that you have to make your own rules and your own opportunities sometimes, the better off they'll be. If they don't learn that lesson, they're going to be bitter and disillusioned for the rest of their lives.

[Predicto]

Isn't this the point at which parents are supposed to step in and clue the child in to how the "real world" works? 

 

But loans have to be repaid - we all know that, don't we?  But then again, YOLO!! 

 

We know that when we are mature adults.  When we are 17-18, we think everything is going to take care of itself as long as we work hard.   These kids are working hard - but they are getting rooked.

 

 

These days kids are guilty of not being middle aged at 14......

 

Perfectly put. 

[pjfootballer]

Seems like our the last twenty years the pay and benefits of federal work have gone up so much that it is actually a career aspiration for young kids. That is absolutely amazing to me that young people with the world and life in front of them want to join a bloated soul sucking beurocracy with finite earnings potential.

$80k, no accountability, 40 hours a week, unlimited educational opportunities and a job for life though, what's not to like. Jokes on me I guess. I wish I had looked at the federal government when I was 22.

 

It's a safe job (most of the time), meaning it is really hard to get fired and you have a steady salary.  I work in County Government in the largest county in North Carolina.  This is not what I wanted to do, but I get paid well and as you can see, I'm in here typing in the middle of the day.

 

Strangely enough, that's actually a viable job opportunity nowadays. Well, it is if you understand how the marketing/business of gaming works.

 

When I went to college I really wanted to get into broadcasting. My Dad was an employee at Georgetown and I didn't take the free ride there because they didn't have a program and that was my passion. I went to Maryland which (sad to say) turned out to have a crappy program and didn't learn nearly as much as I could or should have. Some of that was my fault but the program was waaay underfunded. So after years of listening to my family tell me "You're not going to be able to get a job with that degree" I had the Ralphie experience when I graduated and discovered that in fact, they were right. I had shot my eye out after all. 

 

 

I too, wanted to go into broadcasting.  Long story short, I was misled about what major I needed and what classes I needed while in college. I almost had to start over, but instead, I shifted gears to a "Communications" degree  I was also misled about what it takes to get into the industry out of college.  I had done an unpaid internship at the local cable company doing behind the scenes local access cable shows, but I was never part of the on air talent, thus, no tape to give to prospective employers.

 

I actually met Glenn Brenner once.  I was a senior in HS and I was taking courses at Charles County Community College on the waiver program and one of my projects for my speech class was to interview someone in my field.  I went to DC and had a meeting with Glenn.  I interviewed him and then after the interview, I told him of my career aspirations.  He told me when I get out of college, to come look him up again and he'd help me.  Well, we all know he died running the Marine Corp Marathon.  I was still in college.  My only "contact" was gone. 

 

I sent out resume after resume to TV, radio, newspapers and magazines and got the same company line- We'll keep your resume on file.  Like I said, after 5 years or so, I gave up.  I had to pay bills and eat.  I've been in "jobs" ever since and hated every single one of them. Still do.

[The Sisko]

I too, wanted to go into broadcasting.  Long story short, I was misled about what major I needed and what classes I needed while in college. I almost had to start over, but instead, I shifted gears to a "Communications" degree  I was also misled about what it takes to get into the industry out of college.  I had done an unpaid internship at the local cable company doing behind the scenes local access cable shows, but I was never part of the on air talent, thus, no tape to give to prospective employers.

 

I actually met Glenn Brenner once.  I was a senior in HS and I was taking courses at Charles County Community College on the waiver program and one of my projects for my speech class was to interview someone in my field.  I went to DC and had a meeting with Glenn.  I interviewed him and then after the interview, I told him of my career aspirations.  He told me when I get out of college, to come look him up again and he'd help me.  Well, we all know he died running the Marine Corp Marathon.  I was still in college.  My only "contact" was gone. 

 

I sent out resume after resume to TV, radio, newspapers and magazines and got the same company line- We'll keep your resume on file.  Like I said, after 5 years or so, I gave up.  I had to pay bills and eat.  I've been in "jobs" ever since and hated every single one of them. Still do.

Actually, I misrepresented my aspirations a bit. I was really wanting to do production. I made the edit above. The only reason it matters is that I didn't want to diss Maryland's broadcast journalism program which actually was pretty good. It was the radio, TV, film side that was suffering and eventually shut down. So my apologies to any of those folks....senility on my part. 

[Predicto]

$80k, no accountability, 40 hours a week, unlimited educational opportunities and a job for life though, what's not to like. Jokes on me I guess. I wish I had looked at the federal government when I was 22.

 

I laughed.  Working for the government is not easy, overpaid, no talent, no accountability blah blah blah.  It's an empty canard that people like to repeat, but it is nonsense.   It's a job pretty much like any other.  Yes, there is more job security, but it comes at a financial cost for many of us.  I took a 60 percent pay cut to take my government gig, and I worked at it for 14 years before I got back to my prior salary.  If I had remained in the private sector I would be making substantially more money than I do.   

[chipwhich]

I laughed.  Working for the government is not easy, overpaid, no talent, no accountability blah blah blah.  It's an empty canard that people like to repeat, but it is nonsense.   It's a job pretty much like any other.  Yes, there is more job security, but it comes at a financial cost for many of us.  I took a 60 percent pay cut to take my government gig, and I worked at it for 14 years before I got back to my prior salary.  If I had remained in the private sector I would be making substantially more money than I do.   

 

Well if you would have been making substantially more than you do there isn't more job security. 

 

I wish my wife had taken her government job right out of college rather than her high paying Xerox sales job.

 

I got out of the government because it was hard for me to look long term, I wouldn't call most government jobs highly stressful.  Especially in the long term.  Great vacation, unlimited sick leave, and in the long term many people make salaries better than their commercial counterparts.

[zoony]

Well if you would have been making substantially more than you do there isn't more job security. 

 

I wish my wife had taken her government job right out of college rather than her high paying Xerox sales job.

 

I got out of the government because it was hard for me to look long term, I wouldn't call most government jobs highly stressful.  Especially in the long term.  Great vacation, unlimited sick leave, and in the long term many people make salaries better than their commercial counterparts.

Notice the narrative about how they had to take such a big pay cut to join the government comes from people who left their private sector jobs for their government jobs? Hahaha

I would GLADLY take a 40% pay cut for 40 hours and job security. It is not even something to consider

and for you government employees I say good for you and I have no doubt your jobs can be stressful. At least you don't have quarterly conference calls with your president to review financial results and how many jobs will be eliminated

[SkinsHokieFan]

You have all sorts of government jobs, however I don't see fed jobs in the DC area as anything special these days, in particular if you go into the Fed in your 20s.

 

You'll end up starting as a GS-7, moving up slowly to a GS-12 salary of 100k by age 33, get your 12-14 vacation days, and live out in places like Manassas, Warrenton, Woodbridge, Charles County, Fort Washington.

 

You will spend 45 minutes a day, minimum, battling traffic or the idiots on metro. On occasion the government closes, but you are telecommuting those days. 

 

If you are lucky you will make SES level at age 47, with a salary of 165k. 

 

What a life. 

[zoony]

You have all sorts of government jobs, however I don't see fed jobs in the DC area as anything special these days, in particular if you go into the Fed in your 20s.

 

You'll end up starting as a GS-7, moving up slowly to a GS-12 salary of 100k by age 33, get your 12-14 vacation days, and live out in places like Manassas, Warrenton, Woodbridge, Charles County, Fort Washington.

 

You will spend 45 minutes a day, minimum, battling traffic or the idiots on metro. On occasion the government closes, but you are telecommuting those days. 

 

If you are lucky you will make SES level at age 47, with a salary of 165k. 

 

What a life.

I would take it, $165k is a lot of money

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Wow SHF...that's pretty insulting to a lot of people. 

[RansomthePasserby]

What a life.

If you told me that was going to be my career path, I'd take it. $100K by 33 doesn't sound bad at all.

[ixcuincle]

It's because

 

1) More and more people and colleges are getting fed up with the SAT. If you doubt me on this assertion, explain why the SAT responded by cutting out the unnecessary vocab memorization, omitting the essay, and going back to 1600. 

 

2) College is too expensive and not enough people want to go to community college to get quality training 

[sherrardsd]

If you told me that was going to be my career path, I'd take it. $100K by 33 doesn't sound bad at all.

Sounds good to me too. I'd like to hear what your suggested alternative is SHF. By the way, did you go to VT?

[Forehead]

You have all sorts of government jobs, however I don't see fed jobs in the DC area as anything special these days, in particular if you go into the Fed in your 20s.

 

You'll end up starting as a GS-7, moving up slowly to a GS-12 salary of 100k by age 33, get your 12-14 vacation days, and live out in places like Manassas, Warrenton, Woodbridge, Charles County, Fort Washington.

 

You will spend 45 minutes a day, minimum, battling traffic or the idiots on metro. On occasion the government closes, but you are telecommuting those days. 

 

If you are lucky you will make SES level at age 47, with a salary of 165k. 

 

What a life.

There's some inaccuracy in this.  For one, you have no guarantees of going from a 7 to a 12 unless your job has those levels built in, otherwise you have to jump around, which isn't nearly that easy these days.  Even if it was just as you say, and you went in right out of college at age 22, you'd hit your 12 at 26, and be around a 12-6, or about $88,000, at age 33.  Again, that's only if things work out exactly as rosy as you say, and you're still off by $12,000.

 

You get 13 days of sick leave each year, that never changes.  Depending on what retirement system you entered under, you can use accrued sick leave to retire early, which is a nice perk.  You also start at 13 days of annual leave, which goes 10 19.5 after three years of service, and 26 days after 15 years of service, so it's nicer than you're making out.  The retirement system is also very friendly in terms of fees and matching.  And what is so wrong with living in the places you mentioned?  They have plenty of nice neighborhoods, even if the commute isn't always great.

 

As for me, my experiences have been vastly from what you and others are describing.  The government has been good to me.  I contracted for several years before moving laterally, but I busted my butt and I'm an acting 14 now in my office with a pretty good shot at getting minted.  Yes, there are lazy people in the government, but my general experience is they get about midway up the salary tables and then top out, never going anywhere.  Shoot, many jobs, at least in my area, are now being written so the automatic grade promotions you are describing aren't automatic anymore.

 

Yes, there are some people I would fire in a second if I could, and it's not nearly as easy as it is in the private sector, but it does happen occasionally if there's a prolonged period of bad performance.