Gawker: The College Contraction Has Begun

[Predicto]

It still makes sense to go to in-state public schools or community colleges if you have any ambitions.   It also still makes sense to pay elite prices for a truly, truly elite school.

 

What makes no sense is paying Yale prices for a degree from Ashland University or Liberty University or any other private school that is not truly elite, much less any private for-profit college.   Those colleges need to be weeded out.      

[Zazzaro703]

It still makes sense to go to in-state public schools or community colleges if you have any ambitions.   It also still makes sense to pay elite prices for a truly, truly elite school.

 

What makes no sense is paying Yale prices for a degree from Ashland University or Liberty University or any other private school that is not truly elite, much less any private for-profit college.   Those colleges need to be weeded out.      

I gotta agree with this, too many people are going to lower tier schools and then being saddled with 6 figures of tuition debt.

[Predicto]

I gotta agree with this, too many people are going to lower tier schools and then being saddled with 6 figures of tuition debt.

 

Not just "lower tier" schools.   Middle tier and even well known schools too.  

 

There rarely is a good reason to pay for them is you can get into the state college system in your home state.   Pay extra for Yale or Duke or Amherst or places like that.   Don't pay extra for George Washington University if you can go to University of Maryland (not knocking the quality of GWU, just using it as an example of the tuition price differential between similarly ranked universities).

[zoony]

Yah you have to work hard and smart in life whether you went to college or not.

If you thought your college education was a ticket to some sort of exclusive club it is no wonder you are disappointed

Unfortunately there are millions of college graduates who feel that way. The kid at auto zone needs to bust his ass and become manager and work his way up to regional VP. And/or stfu

[PokerPacker]

The bigger problem is what will all the jobs that we permanently lose due to computers, improving AI, and robots be replaced with.

Jobs designing computers, improving AI, and creating robots.

[zoony]

Not just "lower tier" schools. Middle tier and even well known schools too.

There rarely is a good reason to pay for them is you can get into the state college system in your home state. Pay extra for Yale or Duke or Amherst or places like that. Don't pay extra for George Washington University if you can go to University of Maryland (not knocking the quality of GWU, just using it as an example of the tuition price differential between similarly ranked universities).

Anyone seen the requirements at state universities nowadays. Thank you hope scholarship

10 years ago a 2.0 and a pulse gets you into Tennessee or Georgia. Nowadays a 4.0 is no guarantee

SHOCKING to hear stories from friends with teenagers

[pjfootballer]

 

I think any college student knows from their older peers how tough it can be. If anything I've seen the opposite reaction where they have heard so much bad news that they believe they won't make $50k on graduation when they can in fact make far more.

 

 

That could be.  I'm only going by what I hear from family, friends and younger peers at work.  I realize that not all think the way I described.  I mean, we all want to make as much money as possible, but I've come to realize over the years, I want to be happy more than anything. Being happy in all aspects of your life that include work, is underated by a lot of people when choosing a career or job.

[JoeWolf990]

I feel like this thread veered off track. This is not about the students, but about some of these universities that are utterly useless.

[sherrardsd]

You have to use college as a "trade" school nowadays. Get a degree in Engineering, or Computer Science. There are too many students getting nonsense degrees in some easy major. If a kid bets against college, I sure hope they have a plan. Simply not going to college isn't a ticket. My daughters friends who graduated a year ago are working in the restaurant and fast food industries.

As someone who got a B.A. In BS and is currently going back to school for a b.s. In computer science, I completely agree with this.

[Predicto]

I feel like this thread veered off track. This is not about the students, but about some of these universities that are utterly useless.

 

 

While we're at it, close down at least a third of the law schools and MBA programs.   There are too many of them, and they are producing too many lawyers and MBAs that will never get a job related to their studies.  Meanwhile, expand the medical schools by at least 50 percent.

 

I should be czar, dammit.  

[pjfootballer]

I feel like this thread veered off track. This is not about the students, but about some of these universities that are utterly useless.

True. Herd them in, take the money, herd them out.  Cattle.

[Predicto]

True. Herd them in, take the money, herd them out.  Cattle.

 

Actually, herd them in,make them promises,  get them financial aid that is all loans, pocket the money, when they can't pay it back they go bankrupt, their lives are ruined, who cares - the taxpayer picks up the bill because the loans are guaranteed

 

For profit colleges are the biggest scam in the USA right now.   

 

We have a guy out here in SF who has made himself a billionaire running "Academy of Art College," charging huge private school tuition all on government loans.  They have over 18,000 students (!), all art majors who never have a chance to get a job.  He uses the money to buy more and more buildings.  He owns half of downtown SF now, and has one of the world's greatest collections of classic luxury cars.   Disgusting.   

[Wrong Direction]

Like having a 2nd mortgage payment. 

 

 

A real world implication of debt saddled on 20 somethings is the lack of an ability to afford a real mortgage. This could have far reaching economic effects.

 

While we're at it, close down at least a third of the law schools and MBA programs.   There are too many of them, and they are producing too many lawyers and MBAs that will never get a job related to their studies.  Meanwhile, expand the medical schools by at least 50 percent.

 

I should be czar, dammit.  

 

Yup. More med schools. More engineers. 

[SteveFromYellowstone]

My aunt ended up retiring making well over 100k a year at the DOE with a freaking high school diploma. She's not exceptionally smart or hard working. Now I'm expected to get a master's degree to even sniff the life she had.

[CurseReversed]

govt subsidies and guarantees- mal investment and inflated prices.  Next stop, housing market.

[chipwhich]

My aunt ended up retiring making well over 100k a year at the DOE with a freaking high school diploma. She's not exceptionally smart or hard working. Now I'm expected to get a master's degree to even sniff the life she had.

 

And Richard Branson became a billionaire dropping out of high school.

 

Make your own destiny.  You don't have to sniff a masters if you want to make 100K a year.

 

The problem is when you have the mentality that you expect a company or the government to take care of you.

[JoeWolf990]

The problem is when you have the mentality that you expect a company or the government to take care of you.

i have no idea how you got that idea from he said.

[Elessar78]

One of my best friend's little sister recently told him she's going to drop out of college (she'll be a senior next semester and majoring in BioChemstry) to play video games as a profession.  Needless to say, both of their parents are dead and he felt obligated to tear her a new one. I tried talking sense into her by telling her my scenic route to my career, and she just doesn't care. These kids these days just want to do what feels right in the moment, with no concern for how it'll work out in the long term. 

Can you blame them? Without caveats the word when going into college or in commencement speeches (for universities and high school) is  to pursue your passion. Well, that's great. But you can't always pay bills on passion. 

 

Teenagers are idealistic, most don't even realize how good they have it living a middle class lifestyle. They think they have what it takes to make it pursuing their passion—living in cheap digs, eating ramen after college, etc. But really they prefer the creature comforts that their parents could give them. 

[mrcunning15]

 

The problem is when you have the mentality that you expect a company or the government to take care of you.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a company that you work for, to take care of you or your government to do it's job to help out it's citizens. I mean we all have to pay taxes I would like to think that money that I have to fork over could help improve things or me out when needed.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Look, there is definitely a problem with students. They're ridiculously entitled and increasingly useless. But a LOT of that comes form the perception fed to them by our culture. 

 

Starting with Animal House, and moving straight on through to Project X, they get told that college is for partying and having fun. Everyone always tells them that these are the best years of their lives. Half of them don't even go to class for that reason.

 

 

But there's a HUGE problem with the schools. My undergraduate school was in western PA, and I was a Biology major. After college, I went to apply to work for the state in their version of the Fish and Wildlife services. They won't even consider you if you don't have at least two courses in Fish Ecology, Riverine systems, or similar. Now, that's totally fine and makes perfect sense. Except, my college didn't even OFFER them. My college offered two (a whopping two) courses on vertebrates and they were both so general they didn't actually satisfy any requirements. 

 

I don't blame the state for wanting those courses to have been taken. But how can you be a University and not offer the basic courses that employers in the field look for?

[Gamebreaker]

I completely agree with the above post. I work in IT, and there are fresh college grads applying for jobs at my company without any ability to do the actual work. We've interviewed kids with a degree in CS, and they couldn't tell you what ports are for HTTP or HTTPS. It makes you really wonder what exactly is being taught in class that is worth Sallie Mae owning you for half your life. 

[Zguy28]

My aunt ended up retiring making well over 100k a year at the DOE with a freaking high school diploma. She's not exceptionally smart or hard working. Now I'm expected to get a master's degree to even sniff the life she had.

I hear you. I'm a datacenter manager for a medium contractor, 13 years technical experience, and my resume didn't even get considered for a team member position with the NAVAIR. Because I don't have a BS degree.

[Mursilis]

Actually, herd them in,make them promises,  get them financial aid that is all loans, pocket the money, when they can't pay it back they go bankrupt, their lives are ruined, who cares - the taxpayer picks up the bill because the loans are guaranteed

 

For profit colleges are the biggest scam in the USA right now.   

 

We have a guy out here in SF who has made himself a billionaire running "Academy of Art College," charging huge private school tuition all on government loans.  They have over 18,000 students (!), all art majors who never have a chance to get a job.  He uses the money to buy more and more buildings.  He owns half of downtown SF now, and has one of the world's greatest collections of classic luxury cars.   Disgusting.   

 

At what point is an individual responsible for making (very poor) choices?  Is it reasonable for an average person to actually think they'll find a good job with an art degree?  Maybe it's because I'm older, but isn't "art degree = useless" common knowledge? 

[Predicto]

At what point is an individual responsible for making (very poor) choices?  Is it reasonable for an average person to actually think they'll find a good job with an art degree?  Maybe it's because I'm older, but isn't "art degree = useless" common knowledge? 

 

It is to me and you.   To an idealistic 17 year old with some artistic talent who has spend her high school years working hard filling up notebooks with her drawings...  not so much.   She thinks she can make it, and Academy of Art University tells her she can make it, and they help her get all the loans...

 

They learn the hard way, a few years later.   

[Forehead]

At what point is an individual responsible for making (very poor) choices?  Is it reasonable for an average person to actually think they'll find a good job with an art degree?  Maybe it's because I'm older, but isn't "art degree = useless" common knowledge? 

 

Maybe if you get lucky in the Graphic Design field, who knows.  Schools like the Savannah College of Art and Design are a rip, in my opinion.  $33,000 per year for what?  The school had a horrible ranking the last time I saw a Princeton Review or similar list.  I spent a week in Savannah training some people in one or our offices down there and had a chance to walk past the campus.  Let's just say I came away less than impressed from general observation of the student body.  My stepbrother wasted a year of his life down there before he came back locally and finished up at Mason, which is ranked considerably better.