RWJ Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Chris Mortensen @mortreport As expected, Bucs reach deal w Jeff Tedford as OC. Source: Chiefs director of personnel Chris Ballard is leading candidate as next Bucs GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squatch66 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Come on, guys. I'm all for fact based, intelligent dialogue but not when it means your argument is naive. Summed up simply - Unless you're close do Dan Snyder, every side is speculation. But, take a look at what us fans have to base our opinions on: actions, history and concept of "where there's smoke there's fire". It all points to one thing - the owner gets what the owner wants. The consistency in foundational and organizational decisions across coaching history is uncanny. I'm not trying to start an argument here, just want to say that discrediting the possibility that Snyder calls the shots is a little naive given what we've seen. I get it. We are all snakebitten around here because of the constant line of "This time is different! Promise!" but the quotes that we are all referring to are the people that aren't even giving this new regime a chance to succeed or fail. The amount of vitriol that Snyder has taken over the last few months has been ridiculous. Don't you think that if he was trying to impose his will that LL or any of the other insiders would have said as much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 It's not a deterrent if Brown and Lovie know each other well and want to work together. Brown would know what he's getting into. Even if Brown has a role in the Skins HC selection process, there's still a lot of unknown with how the relationships with the FO and coaching staff will work out. I don't know what their relationship was like in Chicago, but if they're comfortbable with each other then it sounds like a good fit. I know Lovie and Angelo didn't always see eye-to-eye. Brown might of seen things Lovie's way which is appealing him. That's possible, or it's possible Brown has just been given authority to run his side how he sees fit and while going to Tampa would elevate his title, he would once again have to take a backseat to a coach, and as GM if the coach doesn't do great it's going to reflect poorly on him even though he's being overruled. Brown may not want to go into yet another situation where the head coach is overruling him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probos Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 So what happens if Brown leaves us and joins Tampa? Will Scott Campbell take over his duties? I'm hoping Tampa hires one of the other guys. I really want to give Brown a chance. Credit goes to FrFan for mentioning this in another thread. How about this -- Danny,...HIRE MOROCCO BROWN AS THE GM OF THE REDSKINS!!!!!! Sick and tired of this **** -- We need a real GM that knows how to evaluate players/talent, not some talking ****ing head or "capologist" or whatever the **** Allen is,....... gatdayumit,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 How about this -- Danny,...HIRE MOROCCO BROWN AS THE GM OF THE REDSKINS!!!!!! Sick and tired of this **** -- We need a real GM that knows how to evaluate players/talent, not some talking ****ing head or "capologist" or whatever the **** Allen is,....... gatdayumit,... Us retaining Morocco Brown means that he is doing exactly what you are saying. The title doesn't mean everything. Oh boy I might have to take a break from ES for a while this is getting ridiculous. The past couple of weeks have really made me appreciate the work and patience the mods of this board have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972FAN Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 No it's not. How many coaches in his tenure? How many coaches tenure were successful W/L records? How many coaches were fired? It's not just posts like his, it's replies like yours as well. Where is the proof that Dan isn't involved? It's the SAME THING as people posting he is involved. Because Charley Casserly on NFL Network says Dan isn't involved means it's true when he knows absolutely nothing about what going on behind closed doors? So because Dan was OK with the the RG3 benching he is completely out of football decisions? If you think Dan is 100% completely out of football decisions your out of your mind. The Dan hatred isn't ruining anything, its justified and opinionated just like everything else on a messageboard regarding the Redskins. Our owner is terrible, stop trying to hide his massive failure as owner of the Redskins. Look, nobody is twisting your hand to watch the team. Real simple, move on and root for another team. He's not going to sell the team to make you happy. He OWNS the TEAM, he can do what ever the hell he wants. Not saying I would want that to happen but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Tedford? I heard that rumor on here. I just threw up in my pants...lol gggggggggggggggggggggggggg Jeff ****ing Tedford? This guy sent bust after bust to the NFL at QB. Akili Smith, David Carr, Trent Dilfer, Kyle Boller...holy ****. The Packers had to sit Rodgers for 3 years to fix what Tedford did to him. Jesus ****ing Christ that is horrible. It just happened Lovie Smith hires Jeff Tedford as Bucs’ offensive coordinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Us retaining Morocco Brown means that he is doing exactly what you are saying. The title doesn't mean everything. Oh boy I might have to take a break from ES for a while this is getting ridiculous. The past couple of weeks have really made me appreciate the work and patience the mods of this board have. You're right the title doesn't mean much. But if Tampa gives him the authority to make personnel decisions, he may go, no matter the title. We need to give the player personnel authority to the expert in player personnel before someone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Come on, guys. I'm all for fact based, intelligent dialogue but not when it means your argument is naive. Summed up simply - Unless you're close do Dan Snyder, every side is speculation. But, take a look at what us fans have to base our opinions on: actions, history and concept of "where there's smoke there's fire". It all points to one thing - the owner gets what the owner wants. The consistency in foundational and organizational decisions across coaching history is uncanny. I'm not trying to start an argument here, just want to say that discrediting the possibility that Snyder calls the shots is a little naive given what we've seen. Looks to me like Allen is calling the shots and means Cowher is outand with Smith and OBrien gone the pickings are getting thinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander -JB- Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Honestly, Brown has been here for at least 5-6 years now.. I don't think it would be a blow to lose him. What exactly has he done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Honestly, Brown has been here for at least 5-6 years now.. I don't think it would be a blow to lose him. What exactly has he done? He has done nothing. While most others have lost their jobs with regime changes he has only held onto his because he has incriminating photos, certainly not because of good job performance. Certainly job performance can't be why he has already interviewed for GM jobs prior and is being considered for one now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappy434 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Disagree. ..The naivete begins & ends with regards to the Shanahan situation with the contract write up & the guarantee of full control. Logic portends that this stipulation is valid not only because it has been reported ad nauseum. ..but because if it wasn't so then Shanahan wouldn't be bothered to wait for a firing to claim his money, 1. Because, 2...If Dan did overstep his bounds as per the contract & it was provable. ..then Shanahan would be within his rights to quit & still get paid citing breach of contract. It's really that simple folks. Dan wrote himself out of this one 4 years ago & Shanahan not doing the above is the unequivocal smoking gun in this situation. In fact...all the extracurricular leak jobs & combative coaching decisions quite clearly spell out his intentions & makes this discussion moot imho. I really don't know how else to say that the principles of deductive reasoning are almost exclusively in favor of Mr. Snyder...IN THIS INSTANCE. I hear ya, and I'm not saying that deduction, logic and contractual law would lead anyone down a path other than what you describe. But...if anyone thinks that a man who made the bulk of his money in the marketing business had ZERO to do with giving up whatever it took to get the most marketable player in recent history (maybe since Deion Sanders).....then I'd say that's naive. If trading up to draft Griffin really was SOLELY Shanahans decision, then why did he draft Josh LeRibeus (with a 4th/5th rd. grade) in the 3rd rd, four picks ahead of the most comparable QB to RG3 and then sit that same guy for all this season and most of last? Drafting Wilson in the 3rd as a "RG3 insurance policy" would be the logical thing to do because of playing style similarities instead of drafting Cousins who is different in a lot of ways to Griffin's playing style. The contrast in style and ultimately the game plan simply screams inconsistency. Where do you find inconsistency?!?...when two people have input. For the record, I was and still am in support of what it took to get RG3 and was one of the few in the area who LOVED the Cousins pick the second it was announced. Truth be told, I was hoping we'd draft either one of those two guys and we got both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 It's our loss if he walks.....really? Laughable. Everything about this franchise sucks and has sucked (sans a lucky run to the playoffs last year) since about 2005. So, whether this guy or that guy stays will have zero effect on the progress of this organization. There's only one way to go from here when you finish with 3 ****ing wins, up. We certainly can't get any worse. Brown isn't exactly Nick Caserio or Polian, people. Who gives a **** if people in this town hold Brown in high regard? I sure as hell don't. He's as responsible for this franchise's recent failures as any. Let him walk. Doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 It's our loss if he walks.....really? Laughable. Everything about this franchise sucks and has sucked (sans a lucky run to the playoffs last year) since about 2005. So, whether this guy or that guy stays will have zero effect on the progress of this organization. There's only one way to go from here when you finish with 3 ****ing wins, up. We certainly can't get any worse. Brown isn't exactly Nick Caserio or Polian, people. Who gives a **** if people in this town hold Brown in high regard? I sure as hell don't. He's as responsible for this franchise's recent failures as any. Let him walk. Doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. On paper, I'm behind this. The thing is, we don't know how much of Brown's input was heeded by Shanahan during his four years as de facto GM. That's Allen's logic for keeping him on, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemocystem Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I hear ya, and I'm not saying that deduction, logic and contractual law would lead anyone down a path other than what you describe. But...if anyone thinks that a man who made the bulk of his money in the marketing business had ZERO to do with giving up whatever it took to get the most marketable player in recent history (maybe since Deion Sanders).....then I'd say that's naive. If trading up to draft Griffin really was SOLELY Shanahans decision, then why did he draft Josh LeRibeus (with a 4th/5th rd. grade) in the 3rd rd, four picks ahead of the most comparable QB to RG3 and then sit that same guy for all this season and most of last? Drafting Wilson in the 3rd as a "RG3 insurance policy" would be the logical thing to do because of playing style similarities instead of drafting Cousins who is different in a lot of ways to Griffin's playing style. The contrast in style and ultimately the game plan simply screams inconsistency. Where do you find inconsistency?!?...when two people have input. For the record, I was and still am in support of what it took to get RG3 and was one of the few in the area who LOVED the Cousins pick the second it was announced. Truth be told, I was hoping we'd draft either one of those two guys and we got both of them. There would be a point except the main consistency within it is Shanahan's draft history paired with his inability to stabilize his relationships with high performance players. This goes back to Elway. Combine this data with the fact that he had contractual autonomy & a penchant for drafting project players in middle rounds...not to mention his own failings with QB's in his past, & it seems pretty elementary to assume that he was simply trying to cover his own backside by looking at Wilson & ultimately drafting Cousins. I defended Shanahan until this year. He lost me with the obvious leaks, the indefensible recurring power struggles with players.....Real or imagined, & the stone-age hard headedness in his coaching strategy. Constant clock mismanagement, & an overwhelmingly obvious inability to get all facets of his team on the same page. This all, is non of Snyder's doing. Moreover...if you simply remove Snyder's name from the equation....This isn't even a discussion. Everyone goes...umm...it's Shanahan, uh-doy. I'll admit...I was duped. I was lead to believe that Shanahan had been unlucky...perhaps even a victim of circumstances with Cutler, or Denver's D, or Portis, or Haynesworth, or McNabb, or Beck, or Grossman, or...you get the point. Shanahan's past is the most telling consistency in this dilemma. Period. Removing Snyder from the equation still adds up to the same equal parts...do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander -JB- Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 It's our loss if he walks.....really? Laughable. Everything about this franchise sucks and has sucked (sans a lucky run to the playoffs last year) since about 2005. So, whether this guy or that guy stays will have zero effect on the progress of this organization. There's only one way to go from here when you finish with 3 ****ing wins, up. We certainly can't get any worse. Brown isn't exactly Nick Caserio or Polian, people. Who gives a **** if people in this town hold Brown in high regard? I sure as hell don't. He's as responsible for this franchise's recent failures as any. Let him walk. Doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Exactly. Worrying about the departure of Morroco Brown is the equivalent of worrying about the departure of a fart in the wind. I'm sure teams are lining up to hire this guy as their GM. Get real, Redskin nation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 LOL. How many people even know how much input Brown has when it comes to player personnel? Like others have said, we've been horrible since he's been here (no I'm not blaming him) but some of you are acting as if we would be losing the next Ozzie Newsome. Too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberOsaka Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Former Gibbs coaching staff member and longtime Bears Director of Player Personnel Bobby Depaul is still out there as far as I know. Any mention of him joining the Skins if Morocco heads out? He had a long run with some success in Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclops Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 LOL. How many people even know how much input Brown has when it comes to player personnel? Like others have said, we've been horrible since he's been here (no I'm not blaming him) but some of you are acting as if we would be losing the next Ozzie Newsome. Too funny. Well given the quotes by Bruce Allen at his presser it seemed as if Scott nor Morocco had much chance to flourish with Mike. Cooley also has been quoted that Mike often went outside of the organization for input of players acquisition. I don't think they would of stayed around if Bruce isnt going to let them do their job this time around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Former Gibbs coaching staff member and longtime Bears Director of Player Personnel Bobby Depaul is still out there as far as I know. Any mention of him joining the Skins if Morocco heads out? He had a long run with some success in Chicago. if he worked with Lovie in Chicago, why isn't he being looked at by Lovie then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 No it's not. How many coaches in his tenure? How many coaches tenure were successful W/L records? How many coaches were fired? It's not just posts like his, it's replies like yours as well. Where is the proof that Dan isn't involved? It's the SAME THING as people posting he is involved. Because Charley Casserly on NFL Network says Dan isn't involved means it's true when he knows absolutely nothing about what going on behind closed doors? So because Dan was OK with the the RG3 benching he is completely out of football decisions? If you think Dan is 100% completely out of football decisions your out of your mind. The Dan hatred isn't ruining anything, its justified and opinionated just like everything else on a messageboard regarding the Redskins. Our owner is terrible, stop trying to hide his massive failure as owner of the Redskins. I do think Dan (first couple of years) could be blamed. HOWEVER, how bad are ALL the Coaches Dan has hired then? He gave every coach (except Zorn) EVERYTHING they asked for. The players (don't believe me, how was Steve Spurrier allowed to try and bring his ENTIRE (exaggeration) Gator team here), the power they asked for, everything and everyone they wanted and they still failed. Unless Dan was the one really coaching, I can't see how you can blame him for the teams on field struggles. Ok, I get it, people hate Dan and sure, he plays a part, but he IS NOT THE REASON for all the struggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 People realize that we've done the whole Snyder racquetball buddy + Morocco Brown + Scott Campbell thing before, right? 2008-2009. And if Shanahan really was going outside the organization for his scouting of FAs and draft picks, I think that's actually a bad thing, because the FAs and draft picks got noticeably better under Shanahan than they were during 2008 and 2009. The best move we made during that period was either the drafting of Orakpo (which was kind of a no brainer) or the overpayment of D Hall (yeah, our FA pickups and releases were that bad). I think our hope is that 2008 and 2009 was really almost entirely on Vinny, and that the few gems we got during that period (does Fred Davis count? Rob Jackson?) were all Brown & Campbell. I think it's reasonable that the blockbuster moves, like Jason Taylor, Albert Haynesworth, and D Hall were mostly on Vinny. But I think it would be astretch to lay it all on Vinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Look, nobody is twisting your hand to watch the team. Real simple, move on and root for another team. He's not going to sell the team to make you happy. He OWNS the TEAM, he can do what ever the hell he wants. Not saying I would want that to happen but it is what it is. Ohhh excellent the typical "Look buddy I'm a better fan then you are because I don't complain about Dan" look at my cool reply. Did you also read my reply after that post? I simply stated Dan has failed so far as an owner is concerned, are you going to refute that? Are you going to tell some fans that Dan has been an excellent owner? Stop being ridiculous, and for the amount of people who acknowledge that Dan has been less than stellar, we realize that he owns the team thank you. We also realize that he isn't going away and you probably won't read 1 post from our history asking or complaining about Dan selling the team because we know he isn't going anywhere. Stop pretending we are the .01% hanging out in threads asking Dan to sell the team. We just want to see a process happen with Bruce, not Dan. AKA, no Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan. Is that simple enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jericho Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I do think Dan (first couple of years) could be blamed. HOWEVER, how bad are ALL the Coaches Dan has hired then? He gave every coach (except Zorn) EVERYTHING they asked for. The players (don't believe me, how was Steve Spurrier allowed to try and bring his ENTIRE (exaggeration) Gator team here), the power they asked for, everything and everyone they wanted and they still failed. Unless Dan was the one really coaching, I can't see how you can blame him for the teams on field struggles. Ok, I get it, people hate Dan and sure, he plays a part, but he IS NOT THE REASON for all the struggles. At least with Spurrier, the players he brought in were essentially street free agents that cost nothing. There's a major difference between signing some ex-players of the coach for cheap (which happens with most coaching hires) and giving full control. In fact, one of the major selling points for Spurrier was that he did not want full power like Marty had (and Snyder regretted giving as it led to firing him after 1 season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJValleySkinz Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 It's our loss if he walks.....really? Laughable. Everything about this franchise sucks and has sucked (sans a lucky run to the playoffs last year) since about 2005. So, whether this guy or that guy stays will have zero effect on the progress of this organization. There's only one way to go from here when you finish with 3 ****ing wins, up. We certainly can't get any worse. Brown isn't exactly Nick Caserio or Polian, people. Who gives a **** if people in this town hold Brown in high regard? I sure as hell don't. He's as responsible for this franchise's recent failures as any. Let him walk. Doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Would you take Trent Baalke or John Schneider back because they were here under Snyder and have assembled two of the best teams in the NFL? Do they suck too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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