5/20/14 Edit: Per John Keim: Morocco Brown will become VP of player personel for Browns

[dcdiscokid]

I believe this is something I found weird as well. I wanted Allen to be moved to VP and Brown and Campbell promoted up to co-GM status. Still the same power structure. Different titles. Slightly different roles. Better pay.

Yes, this is what I had hoped for as well.  It would have on paper made more sense to fans, and quelled a lot of the complaining.

[TexasSkinsFan]

Ok so since no one else wants to be that guy and making a fool out of myself never stopped me before I honestly did not know what a VP of player personal did so I looked it up

 

The Director of Player Personnel is a management position within a sports organization whose main job is to support the athletes on the team. Depending on the level of team--amateur, college or professional--the director's job may be to help teach, train and care for the players. This may also involve negotiating contracts, or in the case of college athletics, school commitment agreements. He also helps in player trades and acquisitions, including being directly involved in recruiting or scouting new players for a team.

So this guy takes care of players contracts and he helps with player trades and acquisitions. Since the team hasn't really been in the news for unhappy players much, and the trades the Redskins have done recently were in their favor, and the free agents he signed have produced I can see why he got a promotion to another team. My question is why was he available in the first place? 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Just another symptom of our dysfunctional front office.  This is why a lot of people wanted the traditional set up, but yet we went for a set up that NO other organization has.  Titles are important for resumes.  Pay is important.  

 

There's still something that doesn't smell right in our FO.

[Skinsinparadise]

As I was going through FA's in the FA thread and dissected the Shanny years, its amazing how many whiffs we had as opposed to hits, some of which are easy to forget  like giving Atogwe over 5 million a year, Kemoeatu 3.5 million.    And when we went cheaper they rarely found diamonds in the rough and instead came up with just guys or busts:  A. Bryant, Locklear, Stallworth, Trueblood, M. Williams, Buchanon, L. Johnson, Artis Hicks.   Morgan for 6 million.  Then you got the meh category, Wilson and Chester if I recall right for 4 million. Don't know if he had input on the deals, but the Jammal Brown trade and McNabb trade would be under his jurisdiction.   I don't think Cofield and Garcon make up ground for all the other deals.  I don't know how much influence M. Brown had or not, just saying if there is a department that really just nailed it, I wouldn't pick his department.  Actually, think they've been better in the draft than FA.   

[Hooper]

It's hard to tell if this is a significant loss or not.

 

Does anybody really know who he brought in during his term that was considered a successful get?

 

Do we know of any players brought in who were not very good?

 

I know the guy has a reputation, but I'm just not seeing the results.

 

100 percent this.

[squatch66]

I'm sure that it will be Doug Williams that gets the position but I would like to see us do some due diligence and maybe see if we can poach someone from one of the better talent acquisition departments in the league.

[Taylor703]

You think Snyder would've learned after Baalke and Schneider....oh well.

[TheLongshot]

Just another symptom of our dysfunctional front office.  This is why a lot of people wanted the traditional set up, but yet we went for a set up that NO other organization has.  Titles are important for resumes.  Pay is important.  

 

There's still something that doesn't smell right in our FO.

 

What is a "traditional set up?"  Just about every team have different structures usually dependent on who has power and who is working for the team.

 

While it is possible to gussy up a title, if Brown is going to have greater responsibilities with Cleveland, title and money can only go so far.  The structure probably doesn't allow much upward mobility right now.

 

To be honest, personnel here hasn't been great for a while, and there are a lot of arguments that the jury is still out on both Brown and Campbell.  Certainly you can point to their bosses for the selections that have been made, but it is unknown how far down the responsibility goes.  All I know is that Allen has been happy with the status quo.

[Fred Jones]

I'm sure that it will be Doug Williams that gets the position but I would like to see us do some due diligence and maybe see if we can poach someone from one of the better talent acquisition departments in the league.

 

I hope not.  I would like to see an up and coming scout get promoted.  Someone who has demonstrated they understand talent acquisition and such.  Assuming they have someone capable, promote from within.  I like Williams where he is or not directly involved in the talent acquisition process.  Call it, outside and remote input.

[Hunter_R]

That would be Scott Campbell, Morocco was pro player personnnel

Think about all the free agents since Brown was hired in 2008. I'm not going to miss him. I feel the same way about Campbell.

[Skinsinparadise]

You think Snyder would've learned after Baalke and Schneider....oh well.

 

Schneider even in his short stint here did some nice things.  M. Brown if you go through FA signings, a lot of it is cringe worthy.  if M. Brown was another Baalke, Schenider type he would have been snatched long ago, he's been here for a long time.   

[Hooper]

To be honest, personnel here hasn't been great for a while, and there are a lot of arguments that the jury is still out on both Brown and Campbell.  Certainly you can point to their bosses for the selections that have been made, but it is unknown how far down the responsibility goes. 

Exactly.  We don't know anything except the roster has been far from great for a long time.  

[Dan T.]

Whats the capital of Morocco?

[ConcordNCSkinsFan]

Brown was obviously a likable guy and was well thought of around the league but give me a break. When Bobby Beathard left the Redskins for San Diego THAT was a big loss, THIS was not.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just another symptom of our dysfunctional front office.  This is why a lot of people wanted the traditional set up, but yet we went for a set up that NO other organization has.  Titles are important for resumes.  Pay is important.  

 

There's still something that doesn't smell right in our FO.

 

What is the setup that only the Redskins have?

[Momma There Goes That Man]

What is the setup that only the Redskins have?

I think he's referring to the fact that there isn't one single person you point to and say, he's the GM, he makes the calls.

Allen doesn't want that role, he just has final say apparently if there are disputes but then Brown and Campbell are sort of mini GMs in their own specialties and they all get together and confirm.

I don't know, I'm sure other teams have similar power structures but I won't lie that the Redskins does seem a bit messier and unorganized in that regard.

[TheLongshot]

I think he's referring to the fact that there isn't one single person you point to and say, he's the GM, he makes the calls.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/30/bruce-allen-takes-control-of-the-redskins/

 

“The control will be mine,” Allen said, channeling the late Al Haig, “and it will be working with our personnel department.  The personnel department of [director of player personnel] Scott Campbell and [director of pro personnel] Morocco Brown actually do a very good job at what they do.  We are going to redefine some of the characteristics that we’re looking for in players.  Obviously when we have a new head coach there will be some schematic adjustments that we will make, but that power will be with me.”

[SWFLSkins]

I believe this is something I found weird as well. I wanted Allen to be moved to VP and Brown and Campbell promoted up to co-GM status. Still the same power structure. Different titles. Slightly different roles. Better pay.

 

I sadly really thought this was already taken care of. But it is clear to me now that Brown stayed on long enough for the draft to close out. Probably this was in the works from back in January. I don't find Allen a solution in the player dept. maybe they think Doug Williams can be the OZzie Newsome for the Redskins? 

[Taylor 36]

Truth be told, if he was THAT important to this organization, he would never been allowed to leave.  This team has no problem spending money, and has a history of being creative with titles and paying coaches and FO personnel well above the league average or norm.  If Brown came into Ashburn and said that the Browns were offing him a position for such and such amount, and Bruce felt he really needed Brown to stay, an offer he couldn't refuse would have been made.  Instead, Bruce and the rest of the crowd said, "Good luck!" and let him back his bags.

[SWFLSkins]

Brown was obviously a likable guy and was well thought of around the league but give me a break. When Bobby Beathard left the Redskins for San Diego THAT was a big loss, THIS was not.

 

Not sure, but you have to ask yourself this, What made Cleveland so much more attractive? 

[Veretax]

So wait.  he's going to be VP of Player Personnel for the Browns... who have Kyle Shanahan as their OC?

 

Ha ha ha ha ha I have a feeling someone in Cleveland will be regretting this.  Why do I feel that way?  I don't know.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I think he's referring to the fact that there isn't one single person you point to and say, he's the GM, he makes the calls.

Allen doesn't want that role, he just has final say apparently if there are disputes but then Brown and Campbell are sort of mini GMs in their own specialties and they all get together and confirm.

I don't know, I'm sure other teams have similar power structures but I won't lie that the Redskins does seem a bit messier and unorganized in that regard.

This is exactly what I was referring to.  Why in the hell do we have a guy as a GM that has a poor track record with personnel making the "tie breaker" decisions in the first place?

 

What I believe would have been a more "normal" approach would've been for Bruce to move up to VP of Football/PR/luncheons/speech writing (or something like that), promoting a personnel guy to GM (Brown) and Campbell as Brown's right hand man.  I have no idea where AJ Smith is involved with our team, if not other than a consultant.  Which is ironic, because his track record for drafting talent is much better than any of the above mentioned guys.

 

But, we kept Bruce as GM.  Everyone said no big deal, titles aren't important.  Then we lose Brown to the, uh, Browns.

 

I'm not saying we should've kept Brown, or that we even wanted to keep him.  I have no idea.  I just know that it was a strange setup from the jump.  

Truth be told, if he was THAT important to this organization, he would never been allowed to leave.  This team has no problem spending money, and has a history of being creative with titles and paying coaches and FO personnel well above the league average or norm.  If Brown came into Ashburn and said that the Browns were offing him a position for such and such amount, and Bruce felt he really needed Brown to stay, an offer he couldn't refuse would have been made.  Instead, Bruce and the rest of the crowd said, "Good luck!" and let him back his bags.

I don't know if I have enough faith in our FO to make this kind of statement.

[daveakl]

Browns got us good boys!

 

Clearly the best strategy is to weaken your opposition.  

 

Go and get the OC and Director of Signing Players that are not Draft Picks from a 3-13 team and you have a foundation to build on!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

This is exactly what I was referring to.  Why in the hell do we have a guy as a GM that has a poor track record with personnel making the "tie breaker" decisions in the first place?

 

What I believe would have been a more "normal" approach would've been for Bruce to move up to VP of Football/PR/luncheons/speech writing (or something like that), promoting a personnel guy to GM (Brown) and Campbell as Brown's right hand man.  I have no idea where AJ Smith is involved with our team, if not other than a consultant.  Which is ironic, because his track record for drafting talent is much better than any of the above mentioned guys.

 

But, we kept Bruce as GM.  Everyone said no big deal, titles aren't important.  Then we lose Brown to the, uh, Browns.

 

I'm not saying we should've kept Brown, or that we even wanted to keep him.  I have no idea.  I just know that it was a strange setup from the jump.  

 

I posted this from NFL.com several weeks ago:

 

Washington Redskins

Owner: Dan Snyder, 16th year

General Manager: Bruce Allen, 5th year

Head Coach: Jay Gruden, 1st year

Other front-office notables: Scott Campbell, Director of Player Personnel; Morocco Brown, Director of Pro Personnel.

 

Who's really in charge? Lots of faces are the same, but flowchart structure has been flipped upside down. Under Shanahan, the Redskins were right there with New England as one of the most coach-centric teams in the NFL. Allen now holds the complete personnel control -- right down to final say over the 53-man roster -- that Shanahan previously wielded.

 

In the past, as a GM in Washington and Tampa (and as a senior executive in Oakland), Allen grew a reputation for being a coach's administrator. Thus, he is known to be strong in managing a staff and gathering information. In essence, Campbell runs the personnel side, while Gruden (who knows Allen well from Tampa) runs the coaching operation -- with both reporting to Allen. In the new setup, assistant coaches have been asked to evaluate how players fit into the larger vision that Allen, Gruden and Campbell have put together.

 

Snyder took a step back from the football operation in 2010 to facilitate the hiring of Shanahan. It remains to be seen if that will change with the structure flipping again.

 

An outside perspective from an NFC personnel executive: "There's a more universal approach, and with a universal approach, there are guys that can work together or can't. Bruce has the personality to match it all up, to try to make it work. Jay is very flexible, but pointed on the types of players he wants. Morocco has been around that team so long, he knows the inner workings. ... (Gruden) has been around football his whole life; he understands all the aspects of it. As a head coach, he's responsible for things on a bigger level, but he's been around it. He has a good feel for all that; he's been around his brother. He's innovative with things -- he doesn't have a particular style, he's more into a lot of different things. He understands matchups on offense."

 

It's interesting that, when you look at the parts in bold, it doesn't mention Brown as being part of the top structure.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I posted this from NFL.com several weeks ago:

 

 

 

 

It's interesting that, when you look at the parts in bold, it doesn't mention Brown as being part of the top structure.

Thanks Cali.  That is interesting.

 

I guess, for me, I'm just still trying to figure out if Bruce Allen is an idiot or not.