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5/20/14 Edit: Per John Keim: Morocco Brown will become VP of player personel for Browns


Boss_Hogg

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LOL. How many people even know how much input Brown has when it comes to player personnel? Like others have said, we've been horrible since he's been here (no I'm not blaming him) but some of you are acting as if we would be losing the next Ozzie Newsome. Too funny.

 

Well, you never know but he is highly respected which is more than can be said about some of our previous picks. Look at how the team has done since 2010: 

Drafting 

Amerson played in 16 games as a rookie, 

Reed played in 9 games as a rookie and looked like a super find before the injury. 

Thomas and Thompson were both injured. 

Rambo played in 11 games. (Rambo I'm confident was a Campbell pick as there's an article with him raving about Rambo). 

 

RG3 played in 28 games so far and won OROY

Cousins is looking at least like a legit backup QB. 

Robinson looks good, but keeps getting hurt. 

Gettis has looked good in limited action. 

Morris has played in 32 games and set the franchise rushing record. 

Compton has looked good in preseason. 

Crawford has been a good find at PR/CB before getting hurt. 

 

Kerrigan has played in 48 games and looks legit. 

Jenkins has played in 28 games and is a good guy to have on our line. 

Hankerson has played in 30 games and looks like he might be part of a successful WR core

Helu has played in 34 games and emerged as our 3rd down back. 

Gomes played 2 years before getting cut. 

Paul is a nice special temas contributor. 

Royster has looked good before losing his job to Morris. 

Robinson is our only legit deep threat and has been improving his game. Looks to be a part of a developing WR core. 

Hurt is a guy we've been praying to get back on the field. 

Neild may be a legit NT for us if we stay in 34. 

 

Trent Williams is a top LT in the game. 

Perry Riley is our future MLB/ILB.

 

 

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That's 23 players on a 53 man roster. Then we have Baker, Paulsen. Young. Nick Williams. Banks. 

 

 

I'm not saying that those are numbers to make you into a world beater team, but we are getting talent in the draft. People question how much of this was Shanny vs Brown and Campbell, but I think the problem could have been more of the common argument that we get here on ES around draft time. Do we draft for need or for top talent? I have a feeling that the scouts would say something like take the top talent on the board, and instead you'd see Shanny reach for a player that he likes. And a similar thing comes with the free agency. Whose decision was it to get Merriweather and Jackson? Who said Carriker? Who said Garcon? Morgan? Lichtensteiger? Forbath? Wilson? Biggers? Cofield? Bowen? Tapp? Gumbs? Chester? Pugh? Murphy? Briscoe? M. Williams? C. Griffin? Atogwe? 

 

Some of these have been good moves that have worked out well. I mean Baker may be our best D-Lineman and he was an UDFA. Was that Shanny or Campbell or both? Is Josh Leribus that bad or does Shanny just have a dog house that he couldn't get out of? I know Davis was also in his dog house this season and we saw what Davis could do late in the season. If Allen is sincere with saying he'll listen to his scouts and give them more of an opportunity to give input on the draft and FA, then I'm all for it. I don't think that our problem has necessarily been striking our in the draft or free agency. At least not like it has been in years past. I mean these same players were able to put together a 10-6 season in 2012. Now they're all bums? 

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It's our loss if he walks.....really?   Laughable.

 

Everything about this franchise sucks and has sucked (sans a lucky run to the playoffs last year) since about 2005.  So, whether this guy or that guy stays will have zero effect on the progress of this organization.  There's only one way to go from here when you finish with 3 ****ing wins, up.  We certainly can't get any worse.   

 

Brown isn't exactly Nick Caserio or Polian, people.  Who gives a **** if people in this town hold Brown in high regard?  I sure as hell don't.   He's as responsible for this franchise's recent failures as any.  

 

Let him walk.  Doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.  

From all reports, Brown is held in high regard around the league. Not just people in this town.

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There would be a point except the main consistency within it is Shanahan's draft history paired with his inability to stabilize his relationships with high performance players. This goes back to Elway.

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I defended Shanahan until this year. He lost me with the obvious leaks, the indefensible recurring power struggles with players.....Real or imagined, & the stone-age hard headedness in his coaching strategy. Constant clock mismanagement, & an overwhelmingly obvious inability to get all facets of his team on the same page.

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The way I read this, your point is that Shanahan screwed things up.  If so, I agree, particularly with what I bolded above.   But your description behind the disparity in skill sets for the QB selections in the same draft doesn't really pan out in my eyes.  Even given your correct examples of how he's handled players.

To this:

 

it seems pretty elementary to assume that he was simply trying to cover his own backside by looking at Wilson & ultimately drafting Cousins.

 

I'm not saying it was to cover his ass.  I'm suggesting that as a head coach, if you make that trade to get your franchise QB and you decide that you're gonna draft his backup within 4 rounds of each other...in the same draft...then it's clear that you're going "all in" on QBs that year.  So, why would you draft 2 QBs with contrasting skill sets and pass on the guy with the most similar playing style?  Differences lead to scheme adjustments leads to changes in players' responsibilities, sometimes mid-game.  The ripple effect has more impact than a coach would prefer if given the option for continuity.  

Scenario:  

Man makes fortune with marketing business, buys football team, has option to draft the most marketable (and also talented) player in his tenure as owner and he just sits and keeps his mouth shut?!?

Sorry...not gonna happen.

Now consider the disparity in the 2nd QB pick - the backup. If you're going all in on QBs...you go all in and you go with what you believe to be the best.  The choice of disparate styles, when given an option otherwise, tells me you didn't really want the first player's skill set bad enough to begin with.  So, either you're really poor at knowing what you want, or two people are guiding the decisions.  Shanahan doesn't strike me as someone NOT knowing what HE wants.

This disparity (along with history) is a little curious and leads back to my original point: 

It's pretty naive to brush off the thought Snyder had something (maybe a lot) to do with the RG3 pick and ultimately, is involved somewhere in the team's football decisions still. 

 

If not naivete then anyone thinking that way has a little more forgiveness and initial trusting bias than I have in this situation.  I suppose it's possible that the person causing the inconsistency is Kyle instead of Snyder.  Maybe he was who pushed to make the trade and daddy gave in.  

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Since I think we are having a little sidebar conversation...I'll chime in on Brown.  If he does go somewhere, it's not the end of the world.  Campbell will have his time to shine if that happens.  Our personnel, although better than the dark ages of Vinny, still aren't the best in the league.  But, to the point that Nemocystem makes...shortcomings in talent could have been Shanahan overriding Brown & Campbell's decisions.  So, it would be my preference to see/know that Brown/Campbell are the only ones making the personnel decisions then judge whether it would be a catastrophic loss or not.

 

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Four years ago is ancient history now?

The conspiracy theorists are on the other side out this one, claiming others are making it up that Snyder tends to want to be in charge. Everyone seems to see Morocco Brown as a legit GM in this league so let's agree with everyone else and not lose him to the bucs.

Should Brown,Shanny and Allen been fired when they gave away the team for RG3 and had failed in trading for Cutler?

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Certainly NOT a RG3 hater as he is our man to live with after Allen, Shanny and Brown gave the team away for years including the #1 this year when Wilson could have been drafted before Seattle got him.

 

Yeah because WIlson was a sure-fire prospect, that's why he fell to 3rd round and why he had to fight for the starter spot vs. Flynn.

 

Seattle already had Flynn and took Wilson as good player to develop. They did not draft him thinking he'd be their day 1 starter. Redskins needed a day 1 starter, a fantastic prospect, and that was RG3. Your use of hindsight and completely ignorance of the context of either pick makes your opinion invalid.

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Certainly NOT a RG3 hater as he is our man to live with after Allen, Shanny and Brown gave the team away for years including the #1 this year when Wilson could have been drafted before Seattle got him.

Hindsight is wonderful, isn't it?

Wilson went in the round he was supposed to go in. It is a well known fact that we were going to draft him that round with Cousins pick, but Seattle picked him before us.

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Hindsight is wonderful, isn't it?

Wilson went in the round he was supposed to go in. It is a well known fact that we were going to draft him that round with Cousins pick, but Seattle picked him before us.

If that had happened Griffin and Wilson would both be pushing each other in training camp. I am not sure RG3 would have won out.

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If that had happened Griffin and Wilson would both be pushing each other in training camp. I am not sure RG3 would have won out.

Griffin played well his rookie year- probably better than Wilson. So wilson probably doesn't beat him out.

And I like Wilson .

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Us retaining Morocco Brown means that he is doing exactly what you are saying. The title doesn't mean everything. Oh boy I might have to take a break from ES for a while this is getting ridiculous.

 

The past couple of weeks have really made me appreciate the work and patience the mods of this board have. 

 

You're wrong.  The title means everything.  If you're the GM that means you have final say in personnel and how the team is shaped.

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You're wrong. The title means everything. If you're the GM that means you have final say in personnel and how the team is shaped.

Except that it's already well known that Lovie has final say already. Which basically means that Brown would be leaving this situation, granted it's been a dumpster fire, for another dumpster fire but with no final say.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/05/lovies-final-say-could-make-it-harder-to-get-a-g-m/

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Is it really a huge blow if we lose him?  Is he irreplaceable?

You'd think, yeesh

The guy did assemble a 3-13 roster after all

That said, I would not want to take a GM position where the coach and staff have already been chosen. That's kind of a red flag

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