Mocountyskins Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Hopefully some of my fellow ES brethren are/were political science majors and can give me some pointers. Originally I was a student at George Washington and after lots of partying the expected happened. I was forced to leave because of bad grades. I got my act together over the last 2 years and graduated from a community college (lol thank god) Well I am going back to school to finish off my four year degree at The University of Arkansas and I start in 2 weeks. I am new to the political science major and I am very concerned not just for obvious reasons but because I have found that politics are something that I am very passionate about and I am not sure when I need to shut up and just regurgitate the professors info for the sake of my grade. I'm not the one to stand up and start arguing about something I mostly sit quietly and mind my own business. But when it comes time for me to present something, write a paper or give my opinion I'm not sure how much I should really say. As some of you have seen from my previous posts I guess you could say I am "out there" Things such as "You act like the courts are actually following the rules and not breaking the laws" or "The media is in bed with the government and is spreading bs" or "Alex Jones is an actor who is purposely discrediting real alternative news by acting like some whack job on tv" Basically I need to know when I should just shut up and just agree and repeat everything that I am told. My freshman year I took a class called Ethnomusicology. I got an F on a paper because I said that the music people listen to is influenced by your society. So the next paper that I wrote in the class I repeated everything that the teacher said "White people like guitars because it is in our DNA to like guitars" and I got a B. Political science is way more emotional than music. I don't want to say something offensive and then have the professor be like FFFFFFFFF. But I also want to pick peoples brains, for all I know the professor could think I may be wrong but my thoughts are new and refreshing and that could help me out. So, when is it a good time to shut up and just repeat what you are told? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I always viewed political science as something that you should try to be detached from emotionally. Arguments from emotion lack logical thought needed to win. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 If you have to ask, you probably already know the answer but don't like what that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Don't recall any political science classes but I did have an English class where the professor was a big right winger. She would fawn over Sean Hannity in class constantly. So being young and dumb, I would write papers basically arguing against her personal viewpoints. My experience was that I needed to go that extra mile, really make sure everything was perfect, to get a good grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm a philosophy prof. I don't grade students on what they think, I grade them on why they think what they think. I'm looking for quality arguments, good reasoning, etc. I am not looking for somebody to reflect my own opinions back at me, in fact I find that a bit condescending. Most profs are the same way. Many students seem to think you need to agree with the prof to get good grades. That is usually not true. Academics expect to have debate, it is a big part of what we do. The key is to give good arguments for your thesis, and to address counter-arguments effectively. As long as you do that, you should be fine. If you happen to get a prof who is grading down people who disagree, you should consider taking it up with the dean. Just make sure that you are not being graded down for poor argumentation, research, etc. It may be the case that you think you are being punished for disagreeing when in fact your work just sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm a philosophy prof. I don't grade students on what they think, I grade them on why they think what they think. I'm looking for quality arguments, good reasoning, etc. I am not looking for somebody to reflect my own opinions back at me, in fact I find that a bit condescending. Most profs are the same way. Many students seem to think you need to agree with the prof to get good grades. That is usually not true. Academics expect to have debate, it is a big part of what we do. The key is to give good arguments for your thesis, and to address counter-arguments effectively. As long as you do that, you should be fine. If you happen to get a prof who is grading down people who disagree, you should consider taking it up with the dean. Just make sure that you are not being graded down for poor argumentation, research, etc. It may be the case that you think you are being punished for disagreeing when in fact your work just sucks. Pretty much this. There are unethical professors out there. If you truly believe you've run into one, you should first take it up with that professor, and if the professor doesn't budge, take it up with the dean. However, you should make awfully sure your work is bulletproof before you go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I was gonna say, give a shout out to s0crates, but he's already weighed in, exactly saying what I expected. Good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 why would anyone become a polysci major...if not to debate and <<insert some polite synonym for "argue" here>>> ? having stong opinions is fine... but be polite and back up your thoughts with good logic and structure. Everyone appreciates strong opinions, particualrly strong contrary opinions, IF IT IS PRESENTED RESPECTFULLY AND POLITELY. the people that moan and complain about <reactions to> their divergent opinions are *usually* jackholes about presenting their views, and are also often not-very-tolerant of other views that diverge from their own. be polite, and it will all go well. (be polite AND charming with a divergent viewpoint,,, and you will be a rockstar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 This is precisely why I dropped the major when I was at UMD. Not sure if this major really solves real issues. Unless you are going to school to become a lawyer and/or getting a masters, I would look to pick up a second major/minor in a more technical field. That's just my hole take on your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfoom Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Write your paper. Get a good night sleep. Read paper the next day when refreshed. Ask yourself - if I posted this on ES, would Jumbo (or other Mod) drop the Ban-Hammer on me? If yes, rewrite paper. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Just find out what the Professors redlines are. Some you can't avoid, a buddy of mine at UNM had a polysci professor straight up tell him he was not going to get a grade higher than a C no matter what he did. And he told him why - at the time my friend was a member of the NM National Guard and the Professor told him a friend of his had been killed by the National Guard during the Vietnam potests and he would not give a grade higher than a C to a National Guardsman (and he'd have to work hard for that). (Don't know if the Prof held this against all ROTC types though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 JMO but if you are telling people "The media is in bed with the government and is spreading bs" or "Alex Jones is an actor who is purposely discrediting real alternative news by acting like some whack job on tv", I wouldn't expect to be taken seriously because you are wrong and the facts will destroy your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Just find out what the Professors redlines are. Some you can't avoid, a buddy of mine at UNM had a polysci professor straight up tell him he was not going to get a grade higher than a C no matter what he did. And he told him why - at the time my friend was a member of the NM National Guard and the Professor told him a friend of his had been killed by the National Guard during the Vietnam potests and he would not give a grade higher than a C to a National Guardsman (and he'd have to work hard for that). (Don't know if the Prof held this against all ROTC types though). That's patently not allowed. If true, your friend should have sought recourse with the dean's office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Man - What classes are you taking? I graduated with a poly sci degree -I loved arguing politics. There was more debate and politics discussion in my Sociologically classes (my minor). For instance -I had classes where you discuss political Philosophy - Which is not really about today's issues. Even classes that discussed current issues -Was about the politics of the issue. Not the issue (Dating myself but took a whole class that focused on will NAFTA pass, what will the result be in the polls, what will the arguments be, what were each speech targeting, etc...). If at anytime you started debating the actual issues you were shut down. Another class was about how governments work and interact...etc...I think of all the political debates, social issues, etc.... They were almost never IN my political science class. Those classes were not about issues, but about Politics. 2 different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Write your paper. Get a good night sleep. Read paper the next day when refreshed. Ask yourself - if I posted this on ES, would Jumbo (or other Mod) drop the Ban-Hammer on me? If yes, rewrite paper. Simple. That's some damn good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFromYellowstone Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I had a teacher in community college one time that loved to talk about how "god was being taken out of schools" and "christian teachers are being discriminated against" and even "my friend is a teacher and she put jesus posters up everywhere and the school violated her freedom of religion by making her take them down". there were one or two intelligent people in the class but most just nodded along with whatever she said. i wrote a paper on the need for universal healthcare in the united states and used the same powerpoint I had used in another class and got an A for the project. She gave me a C and wrote nearly a page of corrections while people writing about mundane topics like "why we should worry about teen pregnancy" (which is actually falling) got easy As with no corrections. This is probably the only time I've ever ran into something like this. I'm not the type to soften my views to not hurt someones feelings and things have gone pretty well for me. As long as you make sound, logical arguments and back up your claims with evidence you will be fine. What many people make the mistake of doing is getting super emotional on a topic and not doing a good job at supporting your argument. Don't assume people will receptive to your claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 If your professor wants a strong argument give them one that they aren't going to find so disagreeable that they are motivated to look closer for problems than they need to. You can believe whatever you want to and are under no pressure to share your beliefs with anyone. Focus on the goal primarily, which in college is getting a degree and moving on to the next step of your life. There are better times and places to let your more unconventional beliefs out into the sunlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 That's patently not allowed. If true, your friend should have sought recourse with the dean's office. Yeah that is what I pointed out but he said that he couldn't get anything done other than warn incoming cadets to avoid the classes that professor taught. This was over 20 years ago as he is retiring soon (he is no longer a Guardsman - now active duty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocountyskins Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 JMO but if you are telling people "The media is in bed with the government and is spreading bs" or "Alex Jones is an actor who is purposely discrediting real alternative news by acting like some whack job on tv", I wouldn't expect to be taken seriously because you are wrong and the facts will destroy your argument. I would never write any of those things in a paper because there is no evidence for any of them, I listed those examples for more of these are the things I like to think about and say in a small friendly debate, to give an idea of how I think. Man - What classes are you taking? The two poly sci classes that I am taking this semester seem pretty boring because I registered late so all the good things were taken. Public Administration and Intro to International relations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 If you do not agree with a professor's stance on a certain topic I would never recommend "just going along" with the professor's viewpoint in the hopes that it will increase your chances of earning a good grade. Any professor worth his/her salt is going to quickly see through your ill-disguised, lackluster "supportive" argument and see it for what it truly is: crap. The number one most important aspect of writing papers, giving presentations or taking a certain position in a debate is to support your argument using carefully considered rationale and legitimate sources. Having earned my graduate degree in what I sometimes jokingly refer to as "creative writing," I never ran across one professor who docked points off any of my projects due to a "disagreement" with his/her viewpoint. Points were only deducted if a professor determined I did not use sufficient sourcing to support my hypothesis. Bottom line #1: Use multiple LEGITIMATE sources to support any argument you make. Bottom line #2: Wikipedia is not a legitimate source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Just find out what the Professors redlines are. Some you can't avoid, a buddy of mine at UNM had a polysci professor straight up tell him he was not going to get a grade higher than a C no matter what he did. And he told him why - at the time my friend was a member of the NM National Guard and the Professor told him a friend of his had been killed by the National Guard during the Vietnam potests and he would not give a grade higher than a C to a National Guardsman (and he'd have to work hard for that). (Don't know if the Prof held this against all ROTC types though). that would be a HUGE story, if it were true. (but frankly i have a very hard time believing that a prof would be stupid enought to say that out loud to a student, even if he truly believed it. a VERY hard time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 that would be a HUGE story, if it were true. (but frankly i have a very hard time believing that a prof would be stupid enought to say that out loud to a student, even if he truly believed it. a VERY hard time) Well, I trust my friend and given the craziness that exists in academics (and everywhere for that matter) it is very plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoeRedskins Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The only advice I can give somebody that is a polisci major is to double major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocountyskins Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 The only advice I can give somebody that is a polisci major is to double major. That's what my dad did he paired it with Finance and then went to Law school now is a professor at GWU. He tells my poly sci is not very good by itself and I need to do something else with it unless I want to be a policy analyst. I always wanted to do a double major in Arabic because I think there is really good money in that but I get laughed at because I coulden't do better than a C in Spanish. I was also thinking about writing but that is dead now with all the blogging that goes on. So idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 If your professor wants a strong argument give them one that they aren't going to find so disagreeable that they are motivated to look closer for problems than they need to. You can believe whatever you want to and are under no pressure to share your beliefs with anyone. Focus on the goal primarily, which in college is getting a degree and moving on to the next step of your life. There are better times and places to let your more unconventional beliefs out into the sunlight. I agree with this. I just left law school. My goal in school was to get the best possible grades. Period. Just turn in what the professor expects you to turn in. This is relevant, includes an F-bomb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruhFmBrl4GM Edit: It should be noted that I scored my dream job in an incredibly competitive and over-saturated job market, so my method worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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