The "defend Kyle S." Thread

[skinzdar55]

It's been a long time since I last started a thread and that mainly has to do with how crazy ES has become over the last season and a half. After reading thru tonight's Game Thread, I decided that I would like to put my two cents in on this particular subject. I would hope to be able to keep this thread about INTELLIGENT debates on Kyle. There are plenty of threads where there are countless posts on how our beloved Skins need to fire Kyle bc of A bad playcall, or A bad half of play calling, or A bad game of play calling. Please take those opinions (usually fueled by irrational emotions or stupidity) to those threads.

With that said, it should be obvious that I am with the crowd that believes that Kyle and his overall play calling are NOT the problem with this team. Have I questioned his calls in certain situations? Damn right I have. Have I hurled obscenities at my TV bc of some of his calls. Damn right I have. But....... Do I believe Kyle and his offense have FAR AND AWAY been the overall best part of this team since the beginning of 2012 season? Damn right I do. Everyone that is looking for the OC that is perfect with every call in every game will continue to be disappointed until the end of time bc that coach DOES NOT EXIST.

There has never been an OC in the history of the NFL that could overcome the problems this organization has been faced with since the start of last season, and met the unreasonable expectations of some of our fanbase. For me, there are 3 glaring problems;

Cap penalty, Haz's defense, and most importantly, RG's knee.

I'm not going into discussing these in detail, as that has been done by others countless times on this board. I would like to ask why would someone want to blow up what IMO has been the best aspect of our team over the last season and a half? The Skins have a lot of great, young pieces on O that have done a lot of scoring in that time frame. Has it been perfect? No, and it never will be no matter who calls the plays.

I welcome any fellow poster to put his/her hat into this discussion (either for or against Kyle) but again I would like to keep the heated emotional thoughts and the just plain stupid thoughts out of this thread. Thanks!

HTTR win or lose!!!!

[ddub52]

If we had a top 16 defense I doubt this thread is ever made. Our offense has seen its share of struggles, but overall I much prefer watching Kyle call a game instead of watching Zorn/bingo caller, Al Saunders, Gibbs 2, etc.

[Mania]

Completely agree, Kyle and his play calling is very innovative and the best offense we have had in a long time these past two years. Even under Rex, wrs were open all day. If anything, Hazlett needs to go, but I don't want to hijack your thread.

Neil

[Warhead36]

Kyle is an excellent OC, one of the best in the league. But many Skins fans think this is still the 1980s and you can just run the ball every play and be successful. You have to maintain balance.

 

In the 1st half, we executed better. This allowed us to sustain more drives, and thus allow Morris more opportunities to run the ball.

 

In the 2nd half, we did not execute. WRs dropped balls, RG3 missed some throws, interior OL started getting blown up. Nobody screams bad playcalling when we throw it and hit big plays, it's always after the fact.

 

Is his playcalling perfect? Of course not, nobody's is. But his play design gets guys open. His schemes have created another offense that's in the top 10 in the league despite some big flaws.

[Bacon]

The worst calls he made tonight bookended the game; the goal line stand in the first quarter and the fade to our shortest receiver in the back of the endzone. The timing helps those failures stand out.

 

I still think the Denver game was a travesty.

[Warhead36]

The worst calls he made tonight bookended the game; the goal line stand in the first quarter and the fade to our shortest receiver in the back of the endzone. The timing helps those failures stand out.

 

I still think the Denver game was a travesty.

Do we know if Kyle called a fade? Looked like Reed was open in the middle but RG3 was locked on to Moss from the start.

 

I agree that I would have ran the ball three straight times on that first goal to go situation we were in. That's about the only time in the game where I'd say I would disagree with what Kyle called there.

[skins4eva]

The worst calls he made tonight bookended the game; the goal line stand in the first quarter and the fade to our shortest receiver in the back of the endzone. The timing helps those failures stand out.

 

I still think the Denver game was a travesty.

 

QFT.  The fade, which is a very low percentage play, on 4th down to our shortest receiver was a mind boggling play call.  Shouldn't even be in the playbook.  Just awful on every level.  Displays a total lack of awareness of down, distance, etc.  And this was AFTER the vikings took one of the stupiest TOs you will ever see.  That was the play he came back with when he had time to consider it.  Sorry, but that's not going to cut it.

Do we know if Kyle called a fade? Looked like Reed was open in the middle but RG3 was locked on to Moss from the start.

 

I agree that I would have ran the ball three straight times on that first goal to go situation we were in. That's about the only time in the game where I'd say I would disagree with what Kyle called there.

 

That's a fair point.  It could fall on RGIII.  But, his lack of progression and his decision making in that situation falls on Kyle too.  He needs to know he can't throw the fade there.

[TheTotalPackage]

Kyle lacks situational awareness. I agree that the offense is very explosive when in sync, but I think kyle does not make the proper situational adjustments to bis play calling. In the second half tonight, if they can't stop the run, keep on running it. Dont start throwing. If we are in the red zone and need a score, put the big recivers in..like hankerson...not the midgets. If its third and 2 with 3 minutes left in the game with us deep in oppo e ts territory (sunday vs the chargers), don't throw and stop the clock. Run the ball and keep the clock running and if we didn't get the first we may have the option to go for it on fourth and one. All of these are pivotal situations that I believe kyle ignores or doesn't see.

[TradeTheBeal!]

I got nuthin'...

[NoCalMike]

Not only was the fade to Moss puzzling, but how do you call it on a do or die situation?

 

You'd think on 4th down with everything on the line, and a QB like RGIII, you would want to give him at least 3-4 options for a TD.

 

Kyle Shanahan's offense is not the problem.

Kyle SHanahan's play-calling is the problem.

 

IMO.

[GoDeep81]

There isn't a coach on this team that deserves an "appreciation" or "in defense of" type thread.. This coaching staff is a joke, top to bottom.. Any one of them might be decent assistants, but calling shots "live" in games? Nah.. Not even close.. They've had 4 years to mold this mess we see week in and week out.. Next game the D might play well, you can bet your house the offense will look they have 11 baseball players on the field.. Am I the only one sick of the inconsistent nonsense?? Kyle abandoned the run the entire 2nd half, until the last drive.. We get "and goal" and he starts throwing the ball again? W/o any roll outs or screens? And the continued piss poor clock management?? Not NFL caliber by any means, and certainly not after 4 years at it. Changes need made, asap!

[Voice_of_Reason]

Do we know if Kyle called a fade? Looked like Reed was open in the middle but RG3 was locked on to Moss from the start.

I agree that I would have ran the ball three straight times on that first goal to go situation we were in. That's about the only time in the game where I'd say I would disagree with what Kyle called there.

Except that they had the ball in the hands of a receiver in the end zone for a TD on third down.

Play call was fine. Throw seemed fine and on tome. Catch the ball. If Logan catches that ball, we're not having this conversation.

I actually thought the last drive, minus the last play, was brilliantly called. They didn't panic. They ran the ball. Mixed run and pass.

They should have gotten holding on the pass to Reed. But it hit him in the hands. The 3rd down play was meant to get the ball to Garçon. Tough catch but he got his hands on it.

Last play, eh, I don't love the fade to Moss. But he's caught those before. I would normally say I'd have preferred something with Robert on motion, give him the run/pass option. Buy every time they rolled him to the right, they had free rushers at him. I dunno. Tough play to call there.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I won't defend him for his horrid play calling on both first and goals, but the rest of the game was a well called game overall. Not perfect second half, but well balanced. First half was a clinic. 

 

Hail. 

[nuposse87]

He's been inconsistent throughout the season. I still find it hilariously odd that a fade to a 5'9 guy was his best idea. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Kyle is an excellent OC, one of the best in the league......

 

If he was he'd of adjusted to the out and out blitzes second half. 

 

Let's keep the praise in check. 

 

Hail. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

It's hard to adjust to the blitz when the interior of your OL and your RT are a bunch of scrubs.

[skinzdar55]

Due to my accidental posting of an incomplete OP, I just wanted everyone to know that my original point was defending Kyle in this game as well as the last season and a half. My apologies

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

It's hard to adjust to the blitz when the interior of your OL and your RT are a bunch of scrubs.

 

And which two genius' built that line again that way?

 

Hail. 

[skinzdar55]

Not only was the fade to Moss puzzling, but how do you call it on a do or die situation?

You'd think on 4th down with everything on the line, and a QB like RGIII, you would want to give him at least 3-4 options for a TD.

Kyle Shanahan's offense is not the problem.

Kyle SHanahan's play-calling is the problem.

IMO.

I agree about this particular play. Not good

[Rhodus333]

 

Kyle Shanahan's offense is not the problem.

Kyle SHanahan's play-calling is the problem.

 

IMO.

I agree 100%.  Offense looked great running the ball the entire first half.  But with a 10 point lead what do we do?  Come out and run a bunch of pass plays that gets RG3 sacked.  In the 4th quarter we had two 3 and outs with Morris not touching the ball at all.  And with 136 yards on the day and after scoring on 3 rushing tds the week before, we call 0 run plays on that final series?  Dumb.

[Hitman21ST]

A couple of puzzling decisions, but overall not a bad game. First half was dominant. Just absolutely dominant.

 

By no means am I putting this on the refs, but I don't think there's even a discussion about this if the holding call on Paulsen doesn't happen, the Vikings got called for a late hit or two on the QB (especially with the BS call on Baker setting the bar low), or the PI/Holding on Reed getting called down on the goal line.

 

The first series down on the goal line was especially confusing.

[skinzdar55]

The worst calls he made tonight bookended the game; the goal line stand in the first quarter and the fade to our shortest receiver in the back of the endzone. The timing helps those failures stand out.

I still think the Denver game was a travesty.

As far as tonight's game, I think this is as good as point as can be made. Yes, Denver game was bad. I just think that with so many holes with the D and Teams, that they should work on those units primarily during the offseason, from the coordinators down. I do believe the O needs a couple personnel changes but I believe this unit is far ahead of the other two. We became spoiled with how a healthy RG was able to magnificently mask the teams other problems last year

[End2round2sanders]

I agree 100%.  Offense looked great running the ball the entire first half.  But with a 10 point lead what do we do?  Come out and run a bunch of pass plays that gets RG3 sacked.  In the 4th quarter we had two 3 and outs with Morris not touching the ball at all.  And with 136 yards on the day and after scoring on 3 rushing tds the week before, we call 0 run plays on that final series?  Dumb.

 

What game were you watching, we ran the ball like 3-4 times on the final drive, unless your talking about the goal line? We had no timeouts and we weren't at the 1 foot line like San Diego was with 2 timeouts to boot. That Garcon pass pissed me off more than anything, I mean they had Reed and 88 in the same vicinity on that pass. Poorly designed play..

[rdskn4eva]

It's been a long time since I last started a thread and that mainly has to do with how crazy ES has become over the last season and a half. After reading thru tonight's Game Thread, I decided that I would like to put my two cents in on this particular subject. I would hope to be able to keep this thread about INTELLIGENT debates on Kyle. There are plenty of threads where there are countless posts on how our beloved Skins need to fire Kyle bc of A bad playcall, or A bad half of play calling, or A bad game of play calling. Please take those opinions (usually fueled by irrational emotions or stupidity) to those threads.

With that said, it should be obvious that I am with the crowd that believes that Kyle and his overall play calling are NOT the problem with this team. Have I questioned his calls in certain situations? Damn right I have. Have I hurled obscenities at my TV bc of some of his calls. Damn right I have. But....... Do I believe Kyle and his offense have FAR AND AWAY been the overall best part of this team since the beginning of 2012 season? Damn right I do. Everyone that is looking for the OC that is perfect with every call in every game will continue to be disappointed until the end of time bc that coach DOES NOT EXIST.

There has never been an OC in the history of the NFL that could overcome the problems this organization has been faced with since the start of last season, and met the unreasonable expectations of some of our fanbase. For me, there are 3 glaring problems;

Cap penalty, Haz's defense, and most importantly, RG's knee.

I'm not going into discussing these in detail, as that has been done by others countless times on this board. I would like to ask why would someone want to blow up what IMO has been the best aspect of our team over the last season and a half? The Skins have a lot of great, young pieces on O that have done a lot of scoring in that time frame. Has it been perfect? No, and it never will be no matter who calls the plays.

I welcome any fellow poster to put his/her hat into this discussion (either for or against Kyle) but again I would like to keep the heated emotional thoughts and the just plain stupid thoughts out of this thread. Thanks!

HTTR win or lose!!!!

I agree...We have a decent to good offense...It's top 10...We have the worst defense and special teams in the NFL.  Is Kyle perfect? Hell no, but offense is BY FAR the least of this teams problems.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Moving pockets, rollouts. It's where RG3 is most successful. It gives him the chance to escape pressure, changes the point at which Des can aim their rushes, gives Griffin a chance to improvise and create time for receivers to get open. 

 

Here's a brief look at the last 4 games in regards to moving Griffin out of the pocket:

 

Chicago- We use this strategy, it works very well. The team moves the ball, we win behind big offensive production.

 

Denver- Completely abandoned. Offense is horribly inept, Griffin is hit in the pocket HARD, repeatedly. At no point do we even attempt to go back to what worked so well just a week earlier.

 

San Diego and first half vs. Minnesota- Back to moving Griffin around. Offense clicks, we win a game and take a big lead in the next.

 

Second half vs. Minnesota- Again completely abandoned. Griffin is sacked four times, offense grinds to a halt and we blow a big lead.

 

There's really nothing else to say about it, this is just terrible coaching.