The "defend Kyle S." Thread

[skinzdar55]

Moving pockets, rollouts. It's where RG3 is most successful. It gives him the chance to escape pressure, changes the point at which Des can aim their rushes, gives Griffin a chance to improvise and create time for receivers to get open.

Here's a brief look at the last 4 games in regards to moving Griffin out of the pocket:

Chicago- We use this strategy, it works very well. The team moves the ball, we win behind big offensive production.

Denver- Completely abandoned. Offense is horribly inept, Griffin is hit in the pocket HARD, repeatedly. At no point do we even attempt to go back to what worked so well just a week earlier.

San Diego and first half vs. Minnesota- Back to moving Griffin around. Offense clicks, we win a game and take a big lead in the next.

Second half vs. Minnesota- Again completely abandoned. Griffin is sacked four times, offense grinds to a halt and we blow a big lead.

There's really nothing else to say about it, this is just terrible coaching.

In my OP I said there have been times that Kyle has had me screaming at my TV. In my near 30 yrs as a fan, I have screamed at every coach/coordinator on the Skins sideline at some point. Including Joe Gibbs. I just believe that with so much work to do on D and Teams including the coordinators of those units, the O should have a chance to keep growing for another year. Imagine this O (with a player change or two) with a D and Teams unit that does not **** the bed almost on a weekly basis

[Rufus T Firefly]

In my OP I said there have been times that Kyle has had me screaming at my TV. In my near 30 yrs as a fan, I have screamed at every coach/coordinator on the Skins sideline at some point. Including Joe Gibbs. I just believe that with so much work to do on D and Teams including the coordinators of those units, the O should have a chance to keep growing for another year. Imagine this O (with a player change or two) with a D and Teams unit that does not **** the bed almost on a weekly basis

He's a terrible play caller after 4 years, but we're supposed to imagine that he'll become great in year 5 just because?

 

No thanks.

[skinzdar55]

He's a terrible play caller after 4 years, but we're supposed to imagine that he'll become great in year 5 just because?

No thanks.

I disagree completely that he is a terrible play caller. How long has it been since the Skins have been able to score points like they have over the course of the last 27 games? Sure, he makes some bad calls, but who doesn't? Imagine RG playing for any other Redskin OC since Gibbs' first go round

[Every BroHas His Zorn]

I signed up back when Jim Zorn was actually doing well (yes that actually happened for a week or two). Never posted before. The fact that there are people defending Kyle Shanahan right now... BAFFLING. 

 

Throwing a fade on 4th and goal is mistake #1. Throwing it to Santana Moss, who is 5'9, is mistake #2. 

 

That said, this game was lost by the coaches. I NEED Haslett to be on the field to get in defenders' faces who keep getting personal fouls. I NEED Burns to do the same. There is no discipline on this team. None. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

I disagree completely that he is a terrible play caller. How long has it been since the Skins have been able to score points like they have over the course of the last 27 games? Sure, he makes some bad calls, but who doesn't? Imagine RG playing for any other Redskin OC since Gibbs' first go round

Look at my earlier post.

 

In addition, he kept running this naked bootleg which left an unblocked end. Every time, that end would blow up the play and force Griffin to run for his life just to throw the ball away. Yet, he kept calling it. So apparently the only plays he abandons are ones that work.

 

His play calls on the first red zone trip were terrible, as was that last play (game on the line? I'll call a fade to my shortest receiver).

 

He deserts the run when ahead, he exposes our #1 (by FAR) asset to constant hits. 

 

But hey, we have talent on offense and are scoring points, so the guy must be a genius. Yay Kyle.

[skinzdar55]

Look at my earlier post.

In addition, he kept running this naked bootleg which left an unblocked end. Every time, that end would blow up the play and force Griffin to run for his life just to throw the ball away. Yet, he kept calling it. So apparently the only plays he abandons are ones that work.

His play calls on the first red zone trip were terrible, as was that last play (game on the line? I'll call a fade to my shortest receiver).

He deserts the run when ahead, he exposes our #1 (by FAR) asset to constant hits.

But hey, we have talent on offense and are scoring points, so the guy must be a genius. Yay Kyle.

I read your earlier post. What's your point? I can't make this point any clearer. A TEAM SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SCORE 30+ POINTS EVERY GAME TO HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN! Most of that falls on a very bad D and Teams unit. Not ALL of it. Just MOST of it

I would love to know why so many posters here are unable to have a friendly debate without becoming a know-it-all smart ass

[Every BroHas His Zorn]

I read your earlier post. What's your point? I can't make this point any clearer. A TEAM SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SCORE 30+ POINTS EVERY GAME TO HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN! Most of that falls on a very bad D and Teams unit. Not ALL of it. Just MOST of it

I would love to know why so many posters here are unable to have a friendly debate without becoming a know-it-all smart ass

The point is that good coaches can overcome the deficiencies of the other coaches. We all know the defense and ST units stink. Kyle is supposed to make up for that. He not only hasn't been able to do that, but he also repeatedly displays an ability to add to their ineptitude.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I read your earlier post. What's your point? I can't make this point any clearer. A TEAM SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SCORE 30+ POINTS EVERY GAME TO HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN! Most of that falls on a very bad D and Teams unit. Not ALL of it. Just MOST of it

I would love to know why so many posters here are unable to have a friendly debate without becoming a know-it-all smart ass

I made a long post earlier which mentioned one very specific way his game plans have been nonsensical and hurt us. I referenced it again because I consider it valid and didn't want to have to type the whole thing again. 

 

To be clear- YOU have now resorted to name-calling, while ignoring everything I say and then somehow are trying to make it seem like I'm a bad guy and you're a victim.

 

I listed several reasons I believe his play calling to be outright bad. You aren't responding to that except to call me a smart-ass. Your only argument in defense of Kyle Shanahan is to basically say the defense sucks.

 

I am not going to resort to name calling, nor am I going to waste anymore time on you.

 

Learn how to have a reasonable discussion.

[skinzdar55]

I made a long post earlier which mentioned one very specific way his game plans have been nonsensical and hurt us. I referenced it again because I consider it valid and didn't want to have to type the whole thing again.

To be clear- YOU have now resorted to name-calling, while ignoring everything I say and then somehow are trying to make it seem like I'm a bad guy and you're a victim.

I listed several reasons I believe his play calling to be outright bad. You aren't responding to that except to call me a smart-ass. Your only argument in defense of Kyle Shanahan is to basically say the defense sucks.

I am not going to resort to name calling, nor am I going to waste anymore time on you.

Learn how to have a reasonable discussion.

I have stated my case throught this entire thread, including the OP. Numerous other members have stated their opinions without taking a shot at any other member, just as I requested in the OP. Not sure how you could deny your " Kyle is a genius" comment had a smart ass tone.

Since you gave me some advice about a reasonable discussion I will return the favor. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are wrong. Practice what you preach when telling someone to read one of your previous posts. I gave my feelings on the teams' problems from the very beginning of this thread, while also stating reasons why I feel that Kyle and the O has been the best part of this team since the start of last season. Totally up to you if you decide not to "waste any more time" on me. If you decide to continue the discussion, feel free

[Skins3000]

Kyle the offensive coordinator once again got too cute. I swear I saw this last week against San Diego on the goal line granted it was on the one yard line but the Skins had plenty of time to run at least one run play and to add to that, the players did not have far to go in order to get back to the line of scrimmage. The one thing that line do well is run block. No one can question that and with your tailback rushing for 139 yards, the Skins definitely on the four plays on the goal line should have at least on first down ran the football. In my mind I felt as though the poor clock management at the end was a matter of not trying to leave any time on the clock to go into over time because that defense and special teams probably would had given up a touchdown or field goal if there was 35 seconds available on the clock.

 

The fade pass to Moss in the corner of the end zone had me so baffled, I could not contain my anger. That pass had Jordan Reed written all over it in the right end zone with more room to work.

[SkinsD21]

i agree with what y'all are saying but i really think we need to make kyle the head man and send his lazy dad packing..... and for the love of god fire or def-fence coach he sucks ....we need to go back to the 4-3 

[goskins10]

It's hard to adjust to the blitz when the interior of your OL and your RT are a bunch of scrubs.

 

 

But who's fault is that? He has input to the Oline and to how they are taught. Sorry, that's just an excuse, like the officiating. 

 

However, I don't think KS is our biggest problem by far. Our Off is right now the best of the the 3 phases. But Kyle does have very distinct patterns that even I can see. You can almost tell what he is going to call every down based on situation. Along those lines, it seems that once we get a lead, he gets really pass happy. Why did RM disappear last night? Why start throwing on every 1st down when we were gashing them with the run all night? Take what they give you right! 

 

Having said all that, our D is a much worse situation as are STs. So while Kyle drives me nuts sometimes with some very questionable play calling, he would be the last part of the coaching staff i would be concerned with.   

[TimmySmith]

By not running the ball with the lead in the 2nd half, He 1) gave Alfred an in-game vacation 2) lengthened the game to make it fair for Minnesota.   Kyle is a true gentleman.

 

It's all I got.

[TheGreek1973]

Anyone that would even look at the offense for last night's lose explanation is a complete moron.  Personally i feel it was a great performance by the offense.  

[cphil006]

I had thought it'd be a shorter thread....

We tried two pass plays in a row for a sack, so we get ball next possession and pass on first down which had pressure and no gain... Run for second down for 7 yards... We got away from the run...

Kyle saw how much RG3 was getting hit so he has him run some options for no gain? Protect him with some conventional handoffs... Play calling was crap in second half...

And yes, the defense has bad play calling too

[GoDeep81]

Anyone that would even look at the offense for last night's lose explanation is a complete moron.  Personally i feel it was a great performance by the offense.  

 

No matter how bad the D was (and I think most agree, the majority of this loss is on them) your O simply can't take the 2nd half off, regardless how good they were in the 1st half.. 3 points in the 2nd half, against THAT defense, is unacceptable, period.. And not even mentioning the play calling, the clock management isn't even high school caliber, 4 years in..

[Jacoah]

Kyle the offensive coordinator once again got too cute. I swear I saw this last week against San Diego on the goal line granted it was on the one yard.

I'm fairly certain we ran the ball with DW at the goal line in that game.

[MartinC]

I won't defend him for his horrid play calling on both first and goals, but the rest of the game was a well called game overall. Not perfect second half, but well balanced. First half was a clinic. 

 

Hail. 

 

Thats a fair and balanced view. Who are you and what have you done with GHH 

 

Seriously I thought it was a good gameplan and a well called game overall from Kyle. I agree with the questioning of the play calling on the first goal to go opportunity and the last play. What stopped the offense in the second half was not Kyle's play calling but the inability of our guards and centre to block their DTs one on one and pick up simple twists against a 4 man rush.

[Redskins Ruckus]

I can't fathom how anyone can look at last night's game and think Kyle was the issue.

[RandyHolt]

RG3 said the call on 4th was if they blitz, the pass goes to Moss.  It was not a progression thing.  Why not make a taller player the hot read?  Or, better prepare for the blitz. How about a rollout run / pass option?

 

Kyle sprinted out 3 in the first half, but then the play was across his body to Garcon, a very tough throw. That

 

While I didn't like Morris out for the final drive, he did get his 10 yard run before exiting, That is Helu time.

 

Kyle did better overall, but still seems fixated on thinking the interior can hold up all game long. He made Robert sit in the pocket in the 2nd and it was a complete failure. Let the man use his legs.  Up 13 may seem like the time to keep up with his perfect pocket passing preachings, but it clearly was not. RG3 once again took a lot of gut shots. Kyle seems to not notice.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Thats a fair and balanced view. Who are you and what have you done with GHH

Seriously I thought it was a good gameplan and a well called game overall from Kyle. I agree with the questioning of the play calling on the first goal to go opportunity and the last play. What stopped the offense in the second half was not Kyle's play calling but the inability of our guards and centre to block their DTs one on one and pick up simple twists against a 4 man rush.

[justice98]

Thats a fair and balanced view. Who are you and what have you done with GHH 

 

Seriously I thought it was a good gameplan and a well called game overall from Kyle. I agree with the questioning of the play calling on the first goal to go opportunity and the last play. What stopped the offense in the second half was not Kyle's play calling but the inability of our guards and centre to block their DTs one on one and pick up simple twists against a 4 man rush.

 

Indeed.  I agree with all of that.  The front stepped it up a notch in the second half and our OL was inept in pass protection, as usual.

[justice98]

RG3 said the call on 4th was if they blitz, the pass goes to Moss.  It was not a progression thing.  Why not make a taller player the hot read?  Or, better prepare for the blitz. How about a rollout run / pass option?

 

Kyle sprinted out 3 in the first half, but then the play was across his body to Garcon, a very tough throw. That

 

While I didn't like Morris out for the final drive, he did get his 10 yard run before exiting, That is Helu time.

 

Kyle did better overall, but still seems fixated on thinking the interior can hold up all game long. He made Robert sit in the pocket in the 2nd and it was a complete failure. Let the man use his legs.  Up 13 may seem like the time to keep up with his perfect pocket passing preachings, but it clearly was not. RG3 once again took a lot of gut shots. Kyle seems to not notice.

 

You needed Hankerson's length if that's gonna be the throw, but strictly in terms of confidence in making that play, if you can't go to Garcon or Reed, Moss is probably next.  But the throw was late and outside and didn't give him much of a chance.  

 

But watching that last drive, I lamented that RG3's legs were basically taken out of the equation.  Not for draws or anything since there were no timeouts, but like you say, rollouts perhaps or something that would give him a chance to maybe run around and extend the play and make a play.  

[mike42]

I'm going to defend Kyle Shanahan. He's done a hell of job play calling this season, even the plays that hasn't worked, he doesn't get the credit he's earned because the poor execution by the players.

 

 

Kyle is the only worthy candidate of being a our future head coach. The biggest problem  is our offensive line giving RG3 no protection. I've never seen QB take such nasty hits all year. End of every pass play, RG3 is laying on the ground. Taking enough hits is going to  effect his accuracy. 

[CrypticVillain]

This...

Kyle Shanahan's offense is not the problem.

Kyle SHanahan's play-calling is the problem.

 

 

But, more importantly, this...

Kyle lacks situational awareness. 

I just don't understand why he calls the plays he calls at times during the game. Alfred Morris had 26 carries yesterday, averaging 5 yards a carry. Yesterday's game was a game where Morris should have had about 30 carries, the Vikings didn't want any parts of him. Yes, this is not the 1980's, I get it. But we also have a running back that was averaging 5 yards a carry that didn't get the ball enough in the third quarter.

 

Additionally, what happen to the bootlegs and screens. If we are going to throw the ball, throw some passes that could get the receivers in space. It's ironic because he did some of that in the first half, but I think in the 3rd quarter he tried to get cute.

But like the two above quotes say, it's not the offensive system, it's the precariousness of the play-calling and the play-calling at certain times. 

But Kyle Shannahan is far far far far far from being the biggest problem on this team. I think it's time we be more critical of his father. Capgate ain't saving him this time.