***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[JoeWolf990]

Speaking of Van Gundy, what about Detroit next season?

We haven't really talked much about it. But damn if that wasn't a nice hire for Detroit. I think he is the perfect coach for Drummond and I think he can get Josh Smith playing well if he wants to.

It's not working out with Monroe even though he's a good player. They need to get value for him. And I don't love Brandon Jennings as the starting PG.

Drummond is running around without any clue how to play defense. Just making plays of pure talent and instinct. A teacher like Van Gundy honing him and he can be another Dwight. And that explosion might happen as early as this season or next.

Josh Smith is a really good defensive player too--at PF. Not at SF. Deal Monroe and move Smith to PF full time and I think they could really have something.

They need a PG though. Jennings is going have to be way better.

they are going to be awful.

 

As long as Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings are there chucking shots, they will be bad.

 

I do think Drummond will turn up this season.

You know why we don't take it seriously, because it's irrelevant.  Like the hockey world championships...for basketball and hockey it's about the Olympics, for soccer it's the World Cup. 

 

this is untrue, well to everyone but people from the United States.

 

The World Championships/World Cup is a much more important competition than the Olympics, historically. Only us Yanks see it the other way.

Also, I feel American dominance in basketball hit its peak a few years ago and is going to decline. We will still be the best in the world, but not the 10-ton over dog like usual. Mostly because our system is a mess and coaching has is better around the world. Its happening in a lot of our other sports too.

[Going Commando]

they are going to be awful.

 

As long as Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings are there chucking shots, they will be bad.

 

I do think Drummond will turn up this season.

Yeah I think Jennings needs to go, that was a hail mary by Dumars to try and save his job. If they can't trade him this year, 8.3 million expiring for next year.

They don't have any other good PG options though. Best outcome would be to find a way to leverage Monroe into a good PG. Honestly, doesn't it make sense now for Detroit and Phoenix to do a Monroe for Bledsoe swap? Or how about Monroe for Rondo?

If I'm Detroit, I'm not necessarily in a hurry to ship out Smith if I can move Monroe. I think Smith is the kind of player who looks good on a good team and looks awful on an awful team. He needs the structure of a good offense around him to limit his role to what he actually does well: finishing inside and passing the ball around. And playing high impact defense. If SVG can actually get a good team in place, I can see Smith being valuable again. But at the same time, if I can get Sacramento to take Smith off my hands in exchange for something decent, I don't hesitate to pull the trigger.

I think the organization has an identity to work toward now with Van Gundy and Drummond. But they do need to move Monroe and I don't like their current perimeter players at all. I take the Meeks signing as Van Gundy trying to replicate the kind of 3 ball shooting around Drummond he had in Orlando. But I feel like Meeks takes so much off the table defensively that it really puts them in a jam with the type of players they will have to find at PG and SF. Those guys are going to have to be defenders. And they're going to need a good enough PG to run PnRs with Drummond and get those entry passes to him. IMO, Meeks was a luxury addition you add at the end of your build if you need the shooting off the bench. Now they're going to have to start him next to Brandon Jennings.

I feel like Detroit is one of the ideal landing spots for Rondo. Rondo and Meeks could work as a back court so long as a high quality 3&D player is there at SF. Then probably a third shooter at PF. I can definitely sacrifice some size at PF because of Drummond. Milwaukee is looking to deal Ersan Ilyasova, he would be a nice fit.

That's a TON of trading to do, but Rondo and Ilyasova are going to be on the market. And Detroit has some ammo. They're interesting to follow because they could really make a move up the conference standings in a year or two.

Edited August 10, 2014 by stevemcqueen1

[Going Commando]

Drummond's shot chart is remarkable: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drumman01/shooting/2014/

He might be the worst shooter in the NBA. And yet he scored 13 PPG and shot .623 from the field . How do you play 2,619 minutes and take only 11 shots beyond nine feet? His usage rate is 16.7. He has no idea how to play basketball at an NBA level. And yet he can dominate games. It's a testament to just how far genetics can take you.

[Going Commando]

Cleveland should trade Kyrie Irving for Nerlens Noel and Michael Carter Williams.

[Destino]

Cleveland should trade Kyrie Irving for Nerlens Noel and Michael Carter Williams.

That's crazy talk. Kyrie is a proven allstar, neither of those other guys has proven anything. You don't trade stars for question marks in the nba.

[Going Commando]

That's crazy talk. Kyrie is a proven allstar, neither of those other guys has proven anything. You don't trade stars for question marks in the nba.

What about after this season? Then you'll see way more of both Noel and MCW.

My thinking is that move could fix Cleveland's defense in one fell swoop. You keep Love at PF where he should be. You get a possibly elite rim protector, on a bargain deal no less. You get a PG, who has the upside to be one of the best defenders at the position in the league. You lose Irving's offense, but do you actually need it? You've got LeBron and Love.

It's a risk no doubt, but imagine if it worked out. Imagine how scary Cleveland would be if they had 90% of the offense + an elite defense.

And you know Philly wouldn't say no to the offer. They've got a jumble in the front court and they've got to build around Embiid IMO. So use Noel to trade up at PG?

That Joel Embiid injury really had an enormous impact on the fates of several teams. If he doesn't get hurt, Cleveland takes him #1. Then maybe you get a Kyrie for Love swap, or Love ends up somewhere else. Parker probably still goes #2, and Philly ends up with the guy Milwaukee doesn't take. Wiggins/Parker in Philly with Noel makes all kinds of sense. Embiid didn't. Not without changing up the foundation by moving Noel.

Hell, I'm not sure Cleveland even has the desire to make the Love deal if they had a healthy Embiid with Kyrie and LeBron.

[Destino]

Cleveland doesn't want to get any younger. The only way they'd trade Kyrie is if they got something at least as good back, a proven player, that also fit with Lebron. Not sure there are too many guards out there that fit because the league is low on elite SGs and Lebron needs scoring on the floor with him much more than passing. No team would trade a star big for a star guard straight up so that's pretty much off the table. Bigs are more valuable.

[Warhead36]

I'm not even sure Philly makes that trade. MCW is going to be a stud and Noel has all the tools you look for in a dominant big guy.

[Going Commando]

Cleveland doesn't want to get any younger. The only way they'd trade Kyrie is if they got something at least as good back, a proven player, that also fit with Lebron. Not sure there are too many guards out there that fit because the league is low on elite SGs and Lebron needs scoring on the floor with him much more than passing. No team would trade a star big for a star guard straight up so that's pretty much off the table. Bigs are more valuable.

That's why they'd have to go young. Get a big before he blows up. Else you're trading for a guy with some warts, like Andrew Bogut.

The only way the Cavs build a good defensive team is by getting a rim protecting, PnR defending big man. And another perimeter defender to account for a decline in LeBron's defense. Cleveland is good enough to be in it with the roster as is. But they turn into the perennial favorite if they field a top notch D.

More than scoring or passing, LeBron needs to play with defenders. And shooters, but merely spot up shooters. Cleveland has shooters, but no defenders. That's why Kyrie is pretty superfluous IMO. They've got another secondary ball handler to spark some offense in Waiters. Guarantee Kyrie and Rose are your starting AS backcourt this season. It's a popularity contest. That means Kyrie is going to get the Rose Rule max. That's a LOT of money to be paying a tertiary scoring option and extra spot up shooter who is one of the worst defensive players in the NBA.

Cleveland's roster is messy.

[Going Commando]

I'm not even sure Philly makes that trade. MCW is going to be a stud and Noel has all the tools you look for in a dominant big guy.

Today? I think you probably take it. You'll be awful again this year, we know Kyrie isn't leading a team out of the lottery on his own. The hope would be that the team could become competitive quickly after Joel Embiid returns.

But if Nerlens Noel ends up winning ROTY and puts up a stat line like: 12 PPG, 10 RPG, 3 APG, 3 BPG, 2 SPG, shooting ~55% from the floor with a 19 or 20 PER, then you're right, Philly probably doesn't take the deal. Kyrie Irving is not worth Joakim Noah in a 1:1 swap. Much less the bouncier, faster, better shot blocking version of him.

I'm not as high on MCW as you are though. The second half of his rookie year wasn't that impressive, feels like the league figured out his offensive game. And he's already going to be 23 before the season starts. His potential as a defender is terrific. But he's just a role player on a legit team.

[JoeWolf990]

Cleveland should trade Kyrie Irving for Nerlens Noel and Michael Carter Williams.

this is absurd

I'm not even sure Philly makes that trade. MCW is going to be a stud and Noel has all the tools you look for in a dominant big guy.

MCW will never be as good as Kyrie

And lets wait and see about Nerlens. Even before hte knee injury, he still had hte issue of no offensive game and a small frame.

[nuposse87]

I'm usually an advanced stats driven guy, especially when trying to evaluate a player but I have questions on how love will translate in playoff basketball. The pick and pop game is nice for Love in the RS, but intensity is generally lower, and so is sticking to fundamentals (boxing out). 

 

Look at a team like CHI, or even us (wiz fans)...run Love off the 3 pt line during the playoffs and force him to beat u almost any other way. He isn't a particularly great mid range shooter (I think 42%) and as good as Bosh was AT the rim...telling me he can't finish in traffic and is very reliant on getting his own misses. Smart defenses will give Love the mid range shot all day. He isn't really an intimidating post player, and isn't all that quick laterally, he is defendable so long as you give him the RIGHT shot to take. I do suspect his rebounding numbers are a bit inflated as well. He can amend the defensive glass but I doubt he'll be the terror he is during the RS on the offensive boards when playoffs roll around. People actually try to box out when the stakes are high. 

 

Still, the cavs will be a rs juggernaut, but most of their success in the PS again, will be predicated on LBJ.  

[PeterMP]

this is absurd

MCW will never be as good as Kyrie

And lets wait and see about Nerlens. Even before hte knee injury, he still had hte issue of no offensive game and a small frame.

 

MCW's shot has huge issues and probably should be completely retooled.

 

One of the reason Noel didn't play at all was so that they could work on his offensive game.

 

Instead of having him worrying about offensive sets and things like that to play just try and develop/practice an offensive game.

 

It'll be interesting to see what they've come up with (reports from the summer league is that he showed a pretty decent left handed hook, and was trying to face people up and take them off the dribble.  Both moves would allow him to use his length and quickness and that he generally looked okay.)

[Going Commando]

I think Love will score fine in the playoffs once the initial jitters are out of the way. Love is a fundamentally good shooter. He can make shots coming off screens without setting his feet like a perimeter player. And when he does get to set his feet, he's very accurate. He's coordinated and has a great feel for the ball.

He can also get offensive boards in the playoffs too. Taj Gibson ate us alive on the offensive glass and Roy Hibbert has done the same to many a team in the playoffs. It's a handy weapon because shooting percentages drop and there are more rebounds to be had. But his strength on the offensive boards will be mitigated by him playing on the perimeter to keep an empty paint for the drive and dish game.

For me his issues go back to his defense. You can't have him be your center with no other big. Hiding a center on defense is almost impossible. Teams are going to get straight to the rim at will on Cleveland.

[PeterMP]

I'm usually an advanced stats driven guy, especially when trying to evaluate a player but I have questions on how love will translate in playoff basketball. The pick and pop game is nice for Love in the RS, but intensity is generally lower, and so is sticking to fundamentals (boxing out). 

 

Look at a team like CHI, or even us (wiz fans)...run Love off the 3 pt line during the playoffs and force him to beat u almost any other way. He isn't a particularly great mid range shooter (I think 42%) and as good as Bosh was AT the rim...telling me he can't finish in traffic and is very reliant on getting his own misses. Smart defenses will give Love the mid range shot all day. He isn't really an intimidating post player, and isn't all that quick laterally, he is defendable so long as you give him the RIGHT shot to take. I do suspect his rebounding numbers are a bit inflated as well. He can amend the defensive glass but I doubt he'll be the terror he is during the RS on the offensive boards when playoffs roll around. People actually try to box out when the stakes are high. 

 

Still, the cavs will be a rs juggernaut, but most of their success in the PS again, will be predicated on LBJ.  

 

I was curious and looked.

 

Love is actually down below 40% in the 15-19 foot range.

 

Bosh is actually better in the 15-19 foot range.  Bosh is actually better at every range they have it broken down to until you get > 20 ft with the biggest difference being the 15-19 ft. shot (where Bosh is actually over 50%).  Bosh is actually better than most of the NBA from that range including people that shoot a lot from that range like Dirk, Carmelo, Durant, and Curry (and Bosh takes a lot of shots from that range too).

 

And he's been lower in the past (but not a bunch, he's always been amongst the best), but didn't show a great improvement just from moving to Miami from Toronto.

 

That just seems to be a shot that Bosh has been good at, and I suspect it is something he has worked on in Miami.

 

With respect to Love, I suspect it is something he can work on and get better with.

 

I suspect he might get better simply by having those types of looks be more open playing with Lebron and Irving.

 

The actual trade was much better for Cleveland than some of the other ones that were announced, but I still would have rather given up Irving than Wiggins, I think.

 

Though I think this is a trade that Cleveland reasonably had to make, and maybe you aren't there this year, but you hope that over the next year they can meld their game together (e.g. Love working on the mid-range jump shot so he can be an effective pick and pop player).

 

To me, playing defense remains the issue.

For me his issues go back to his defense. You can't have him be your center with no other big. Hiding a center on defense is almost impossible. Teams are going to get straight to the rim at will on Cleveland.

 

I'll point out that I think you could get away with him at a C if you had elite defensive perimeter players, but I don't think the Cavs have that (other than Lebron).  

 

I don't think they can effectively defend teams with 2 good perimeter players, or a team that has a good perimeter player and a good post player.

Edited August 11, 2014 by PeterMP

[Predicto]

Eventually you finally get to a brief part where Simmons goes over each of Love's skills: He's a pretty good, not great post scorer that can draw the occasional double team inside. He's a terrific passer, especially outlet passes to trigger the break (although Simmons seems to think Love is the only one whose good at this in the NBA, and that he alone possesses the arcane knowledge of Wes Unseld). He's a shade below elite three point shooter. And he's one of the best rebounders in the league. I'd add that Love's a pretty good screener, he's got an elite feel for the game on offense leading to a ton of opportunistic junk scores, and he's got a fantastic below the rim inside finishing game which helps him compensate for his lack of length and leaping ability. And he's a terrific FT shooter for a PF. And he's got a strong body with a lower center of gravity and the ability to uproot guys in the paint and hold his own against posting bigs.

 

....

 

What you don't have is any other sort of ability to trigger and shape good possessions. No other transition game than outlet passing. No sort of face up and create a shot off the bounce game. No PnR game. No size or quickness or elite footwork and ball fake-based game to go to the well to over and over again in the low post. Love can really only play one certain type of offensive basketball. That mutability to thrive game to game you need to have to win a variety of situations and lead a team to win 60-70% of the time isn't there.

.......

People think about Love as a franchise cornerstone because of his numbers. Really he's an extremely high quality but extremely specialized support player if playing on a team that's actually a good, sound basketball unit. He brings a lot to the table. Takes a lot off the table. And he doesn't have the kind of natural leadership intangibles that a locker room can orbit around.

But that kind of player shouldn't be necessary in Cleveland while LeBron remains LeBron.

 

 

All of this makes me think that he is a perfect fit for Cleveland.   He's got all these specialized skills that are extremely valuable if someone else does certain things.   And every one of those things is the things that Lebron does.  Who care if he has natural leadership intangibles that a locker team can orbit around?  Lebron is going to be the leader.  Who cares if he is triggering the break instead of running it?  Kyrie and Lebron will finish it just fine.  Who cares if he gets a lot of his points off of opportunistic putbacks?  Kyrie will heave up the shots and he can clean them up.   Who cares if he doesn't have a face up and create a shot over and over down the stretch kind of game?  Lebron does, and why would you want Love (or anyone else) to be the guy doing that rather than Lebron?   With the ball in Lebron's (or Irving's) hands, Love can do his "specialist" thing better than ever.  

Edited August 11, 2014 by Predicto

[DM72]

Cleveland should trade Kyrie Irving for Nerlens Noel and Michael Carter Williams.

 

Philly would be crazy to make that trade.

[nuposse87]

I think Love will score fine in the playoffs once the initial jitters are out of the way. Love is a fundamentally good shooter. He can make shots coming off screens without setting his feet like a perimeter player. And when he does get to set his feet, he's very accurate. He's coordinated and has a great feel for the ball.

He can also get offensive boards in the playoffs too. Taj Gibson ate us alive on the offensive glass and Roy Hibbert has done the same to many a team in the playoffs. It's a handy weapon because shooting percentages drop and there are more rebounds to be had. But his strength on the offensive boards will be mitigated by him playing on the perimeter to keep an empty paint for the drive and dish game.

For me his issues go back to his defense. You can't have him be your center with no other big. Hiding a center on defense is almost impossible. Teams are going to get straight to the rim at will on Cleveland.

 

Uhhhh, he's a very good volume 3 pt shooter but he isn't what I'd call mid range mcgoo. From 16ft to 3pt territory he shot .40 percent and from 10-16 feet he shot 35%. That is a mediocre mid range shooter (He'd fit right in with Wall and Beal! ).If you run him off the 3 pt line you're doing the right thing. Hid mid range game is no where close to being lethal. 

 

I want to say Taj beat us on the board mostly when Booker was out there. Taj has very good standing reach and athleticism, those go along way when your opposition has boxed you out. Love doesn't have either of those qualities to simply bully his way around. I'm aware he is strong, but I seriously doubt he's stronger then Nene, or even THAT much stronger then Hump. IF Love has an extra gear then this all changes. 

 

So yeah, I'd welcome Love to take mid range shots and operate out of the post. 

[PeterMP]

Uhhhh, he's a very good volume 3 pt shooter but he isn't what I'd call mid range mcgoo. From 16ft to 3pt territory he shot .40 percent and from 10-16 feet he shot 35%. That is a mediocre mid range shooter (He'd fit right in with Wall and Beal! ).If you run him off the 3 pt line you're doing the right thing. Hid mid range game is no where close to being lethal. 

 

I want to say Taj beat us on the board mostly when Booker was out there. Taj has very good standing reach and athleticism, those go along way when your opposition has boxed you out. Love doesn't have either of those qualities to simply bully his way around. I'm aware he is strong, but I seriously doubt he's stronger then Nene, or even THAT much stronger then Hump. IF Love has an extra gear then this all changes. 

 

So yeah, I'd welcome Love to take mid range shots and operate out of the post. 

 

I think the issue becomes who are you running him off the line with.

 

I don't know, but I suspect he's a good enough and tall enough shooter that a lot of smaller players don't bother him much when shooting.

 

Also most PF/C aren't really good or comfortable at running anybody off the line.

 

Do you think Booker or Nene could effectively run Love off the 3 pt. line?

 

With Lebron and Irving on the same team, are you going to commit one of your better defenders to running Love off the 3 pt line?

Edited August 12, 2014 by PeterMP

[Predicto]

I think the issue becomes who are you running him off the line with.

 

I don't know, but I suspect he's a good enough and tall enough shooter that a lot of smaller players don't bother him much when shooting.

 

Also most PF/C aren't really good or comfortable at running anybody off the line.

 

Do you think Booker or Nene could effectively run Love off the 3 pt. line?

 

And if you do try to run him off the line with a big guy, Love is a terrific decision-maker and passer.  Get ready for a lot of corner 3s or Lebron dunks, depending on which area the big guy just vacated.  

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Just because it's the offseason & an Agent Zero update is always fun

Gilbert Arenas -- Calls Rev. Al Sharpton a 'Coon' ... Over Michael Brown Protests

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/08/14/gilbert-arenas-michael-brown-shot-riots-al-sharpton/#ixzz3AOSfglhm

 

 

 

Gilbert's post included a plea to Michael Brown's family to leave Sharpton out of planned protests. He said, "FAMILiES of the victims pleaseeeeee stop asking #alsharpton to speak or ur behalf,you have a better chance having #caesar the monkey from #planetoftheapes to get justice for you."

Gilbert appeared to be reacting to news coverage of Sharpton arriving in the St. Louis area and marching arm-in-arm with protesters.

As if the racial slur wasn't enough, Arenas added, "#AL ur like a #THOT in the club,lookn for attention what u said at trayvons rally #enoughisenough ur right were tired of u PRETENDING." 

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/08/14/gilbert-arenas-michael-brown-shot-riots-al-sharpton/#ixzz3AOSozzsh

And, video of Al's response.

Al Sharpton -- GIlbert Arenas Has No Business Criticizing Me!

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/08/14/al-sharpton-gilbert-arenas-michael-brown/#ixzz3AOSykzL6

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Some real NBA News though: 


http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/8/14/6003163/demarcus-cousins-injury-knee-mri-team-usa-kings

 

DeMarcus Cousins to undergo MRI on right knee after suffering injury at Team USA camp
 

 

Sacramento Kings big man DeMarcus Cousins will undergo an MRI on his right knee after suffering a possible injury at Team USA camp on Thursday, reportsK.C. Johnson of the Chicago Tribune.

Cousins was playing in a White-Blue scrimmage along with his USA Basketball teammates in Chicago when he went down and limped off the court. He could be seen getting treatment on his knee near the sideline before Team USA president Jerry Colangelo announced the MRI.

The injury may not be serious, however, as Colangelo also said the procedure is "precautionary." He will sit out the team's exhibition game against Brazil on Saturday in Chicago, Colangelo says, and USA Basketball will evaluate what to do from there.

If it ends up being serious and he drops out, the noise about participation in FIBA should reach a new decibel.

[Mr. Sinister]

Seriously, what in the hell happened to Gilbert Arenas?

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I keep seeing people saying the Bulls can win the East. But a 34 year old Gasol is not really a upgrade over Boozer. Then they lost a legit spark coming off the bench with DJ. I'm also under the assumption that Rose won't last 40 games. Even with Rose they are going to struggle to score. The one thing that they do have tho is 2 of the best defensive bigmen in the league. .

I'm baffled over how many ppl think Boozer is anywhere near Pau. Boozer is awful at this point

Seriously, what in the hell happened to Gilbert Arenas?

Dude is just a born clown. Luckily, he could score a basketball pretty well

And he called Sharpton a c**n??? Man....glass houses bruh

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

I'm baffled over how many ppl think Boozer is anywhere near Pau. Boozer is awful at this point

 

I know it was D'Antoni ball on a bad team, but Pau put up nearly 18 and 10 in only 31 minutes last year, he's still a really effective player.