***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[JoeWolf990]

Yeah, but I'm assuming LeBron will probably stay in Cleveland even if they don't even truly contend. He's talking about making an investment in the region beyond basketball. Sounds like he wants to settle there permanently.

I'm thinking he's got the Cavs on a probationary period this year. If they are just totally dysfunctional then I guess he bolts. But I don't expect that. I expect major improvement in the W/L column and playoffs with a good seed. Then he picks up his option for next year. Then he sees if they're settling into a good construction the offseason after that and signs a big old five year super max contract that's the last giant deal of his playing career and Cleveland settles into a stable long term place.

I could be wrong. But it'd be pretty shocking if LeBron ditched them again. He'd be playing with two other All Stars. Things would have to be absolutely horrible to drive him away.

the Cap has to go up a lot because they have no space right now.

I also mentioned the 2 year deal not because I think Lebron will bolt, but that Cleveland need to build towards something because he has that option. (really he can opt out next year)

[Destino]

I like Bennett's fit in Philly better than Minny long term, but goddamn if Philly isn't going to be awful this year. And probably for a while. They've gotten way too young.

How are they going to develop so many players at once? They have Saric too right? So Bennett, Saric, Embiid, and Noel. Four bigs and Bennett's limited floor time with Cleveland leaves him as the most experienced among them.

[JoeWolf990]

Bennett is a horrible fit in Philly, imo. They have to get rid of one of Noel or Embiid.

[CrypticVillain]

Wait - according to the graphic Tyson had nine points in that game.  That passes for going ham these days? 

Based on the way the reporter asked him how can he take advantage of Love, I'm guessing hat was halftime.

 

But yeah, Chandler getting nine is going ham lol

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Look at the thread I found. There is a shocking amount of Clyde Drexler talk in it for some reason.

http://es.redskins.com/topic/311890-2010-nba-free-agency-thread-merged/page-47

 

Also, none of us know anything:

 

Royallypwned:

Deron Williams > Chris Paul

 

 

Warhead36 on the real power in the NBA:

I'd take Kobe, Gasol, and Artest/Odom(pick one to make it a trio)over the Heat trio.
Kobe can shut down Wade and Gasol will dominate Bosh inside(although Bosh will put up #s against Gasol who is not the toughest of big men either). Artest/Odom will make life hell on Lebron with their length, quickness, and in Artest's case physical play.

 

No Excuses on how bad the Heat defense is going to be:

 

They have to acquire defensive low post help. The NBA isn't filled with great post players or even great slashers but with the current lineup they have, their pick and roll defense and interior defense is going to be terrible. With current lineup, Wade and LeBron will have to apply a lot more effort on perimeter defense, but having a big paint defender like Perkins or Haywood allows the perimeter guys to play a bit lose.

Eersskins05 blind optimism:

Maybe I'm just a major homer for WVU, but don't forget they also added Da'Sean Butler fresh off leading WVU to the Final Four. Granted, he's got to come back from a pretty nasty knee injury suffered in the FF, but he's a fantastic scorer and all-around player.

 

LKB being 25 percent right:

I could care less that Lebron left Cleveland. I've been saying all along that he should have gone to Chicago and am 75 percent convinced that he will regret going to Miami.
That special was the worst PR decision since Mission Accomplished though.

 

 

[Predicto]

the graphic was from halftime of that game. Chandler ended up with 15 points on 6-8 shooting. Tyson Chandler is one of the most limited scoring big men in the NBA.

THe only way Love can be adequate is with a rim protector. Of which, the Cavs do not have.

 

 

 

This is true.  It is also true for a great many other power forwards in the NBA.   It is true for Dirk, and for Z Bo,  and for Blake Griffin, and for Pau Gasol, and for Carmelo, and for Millsap, and so on.   

 

I suspect that Cleveland can get an adequate rim protector at a low price to come play with the big three.  The guy doesn't have to be a Joakim or Mark Gasol.  He doesn't even need to be able to score, doesn't need to be able to do much of anything except provide rim defense and shove in the occasional putback when he is left wide opem (which he hill be, about 50 times a game).

 

Heck, Ekpe Udoh might be enough, and  you can probably get him for the vet minimum. 

 

 

ps - 15 points ain't ham either.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Predicto

[CrypticVillain]

For Chandler, it is. lol What he average like 6 points last year? lol

[Going Commando]

Bennett is a horrible fit in Philly, imo. They have to get rid of one of Noel or Embiid.

Embiid might not play this year. So you spend this year playing with Bennett and Noel and see if you've got anything with them. Hopefully one of them becomes a trade asset between now and the time Embiid gets ready to play.

[Going Commando]

This is true.  It is also true for a great many other power forwards in the NBA.   It is true for Dirk, and for Z Bo,  and for Blake Griffin, and for Pau Gasol, and for Carmelo, and for Millsap, and so on.   

 

I suspect that Cleveland can get an adequate rim protector at a low price to come play with the big three.  The guy doesn't have to be a Joakim or Mark Gasol.  He doesn't even need to be able to score, doesn't need to be able to do much of anything except provide rim defense and shove in the occasional putback when he is left wide opem (which he hill be, about 50 times a game).

 

Heck, Ekpe Udoh might be enough, and  you can probably get him for the vet minimum. 

 

 

ps - 15 points ain't ham either.

You're talking about someone who is going to turn a bad defense into an at least adequate good one. A 2000-2,500 minute center. That's not Ekpe Udoh. Those kinds of players don't come cheap. Pau Gasol, Dirk are seven footers who are both good defensive players. And Griffin and Millsap are good defenders too, both of whom play with expensive centers.

Cleveland isn't going to get the foundation for defense in place this offseason. Maybe something comes up by the deadline. But if they ever get a center, it'll probably be next offseason at the earliest.

[Mocountyskins]

I keep seeing people saying the Bulls can win the East. But a 34 year old Gasol is not really a upgrade over Boozer. Then they lost a legit spark coming off the bench with DJ. I'm also under the assumption that Rose won't last 40 games. Even with Rose they are going to struggle to score. The one thing that they do have tho is 2 of the best defensive bigmen in the league. The Cavs weakness is going to be in the paint. Besides Love they really don't have anyone who is going to be able to crash the boards. So maybe the Bulls can take advantage of that. But really I just can't see them competing at all if Rose is not back to 100%.

 

I don't really think the Wiz would be able to win a series against the Cavs either unless Beal makes a major jump to a 25ppg. Wall also needs to be able to hang around 20 and 9 per game. Even if those things happen The Wiz really don't have the talent upfront to be a legitimate threat to the East with the cavs in the way. Marcin is a good solid player and Nene is a good solid player they also have a lot of depth now but they really don't have the defensive talent in the paint to stop Bron going to the rim or Love. 

 

Really the East depends on the health of Rose and Love. Because remember Love has missed a lot of games in his career so has Kyrie.

[burgundyrush]

You guys remember that fast paced offense Miami was running pre All-Star break in 2011. The one that was inspired by Oregon football with Lebron and Wade feasting off long misses and turnovers for easy transition buckets (also that full court alley court alley-oop). Well I expect a rich man version of that in Cleveland with less defense. As a basketball fan it will be fun to watch especially since Kevin loves him some full court passes.

[Predicto]

You're talking about someone who is going to turn a bad defense into an at least adequate good one. A 2000-2,500 minute center. That's not Ekpe Udoh. Those kinds of players don't come cheap. Pau Gasol, Dirk are seven footers who are both good defensive players. And Griffin and Millsap are good defenders too, both of whom play with expensive centers.

Cleveland isn't going to get the foundation for defense in place this offseason. Maybe something comes up by the deadline. But if they ever get a center, it'll probably be next offseason at the earliest.

 

Cleveland was a middle of the pack defensive team last year (17th in defensive efficiency), and they added Lebron, who may not be the best defender in the NBA anymore, but probably remains in the top ten.   

 

And adding Love doesn't make them much different on defense.  He will be taking the minutes of Tristan Thompson, who is a lousy defender, and Spencer Hawes, who is worse.   

[Destino]

Cleveland was a middle of the pack defensive team last year (17th in defensive efficiency), and they added Lebron, who may not be the best defender in the NBA anymore, but probably remains in the top ten.

And adding Love doesn't make them much different on defense. He will be taking the minutes of Tristan Thompson, who is a lousy defender, and Spencer Hawes, who is worse.

Lebron's defense fell off a cliff last season. If that turns out to be just a bad year and he's right back where he was prior to last season than he's certainly a major upgrade. The only reason I'm not saying that they will be a terrible defensive team with certainty is because team defense and individual defense are not the same thing. With the right strategy and a lot of hustle they can be effective, any team can, especially teams that can tire out their opponents by pushing the tempo all game.

I think Cleveland is the clear favorite if they stay healthy. As much a favorite as Miami was the previous three seasons. They have way too much fire power for the Bulls, Raptors, and Wizards to stop. The Thunder probably match up better with the Cavs than they did Miami. The Spurs might still be better too.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Destino

[Going Commando]

Cleveland was a middle of the pack defensive team last year (17th in defensive efficiency), and they added Lebron, who may not be the best defender in the NBA anymore, but probably remains in the top ten.   

 

And adding Love doesn't make them much different on defense.  He will be taking the minutes of Tristan Thompson, who is a lousy defender, and Spencer Hawes, who is worse.

LeBron isn't close to one of the top ten defenders in the league right now. Maybe the change of scenery gets him playing good defense again, but LeBron was a below average defender last season.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/no-its-not-just-you-lebron-really-has-been-bad-on-de-1561440624

Basically, LeBron got lazy on defense. I don't know if he's slowing or just stopped caring as much, but it happened. And now he's costarring with two other famously lazy defenders and a bunch of young guys who are also awful defenders. Varejao is pretty good. But 1500 minutes of him ain't making a dent.

People seem to think that LeBron will come in and be this big culture changer on defense and suddenly Kyrie and Love will play good defense. I don't think that's going to happen. If anything, I think we'll see further regression on D from LeBron. I think he's entering that Kobe/Jordan late career period where his reputation on D far outstrips his actual performance.

I bet what's going to happen is they just say **** it, go small with Kevin Love at C and LeBron at PF the majority of the time, and just push a super fast pace and try and outgun teams, much like Houston and Portland. It might work well enough to win an East that just lost it's two legit teams from last season. I doubt it gets them a ring this season though. A team playing Kevin Love at C and no perimeter D is going to be oleing guys straight to the rim. They won't be scary to play.

Here's an interesting question, who gets Chris Boshed out of Cleveland's new big 3? Whose the guy whose scoring numbers take a huge dive?

I bet it's Love.

[Sticksboi05]

Cleveland was a middle of the pack defensive team last year (17th in defensive efficiency), and they added Lebron, who may not be the best defender in the NBA anymore, but probably remains in the top ten.   

 

And adding Love doesn't make them much different on defense.  He will be taking the minutes of Tristan Thompson, who is a lousy defender, and Spencer Hawes, who is worse.   

 

You have overrated LeBron's defense incredibly these past two pages.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Sticksboi05

[Going Commando]

Lebron's defense fell off a cliff last season. If that turns out to be just a bad year and he's right back where he was prior to last season than he's certainly a major upgrade. The only reason I'm not saying that they will be a terrible defensive team with certainty is because team defense and individual defense are not the same thing. With the right strategy and a lot of hustle they can be effective, any team can, especially teams that can tire out their opponents by pushing the tempo all game.

I think Cleveland is the clear favorite if they stay healthy. As much a favorite as Miami was the previous three seasons. They have way too much fire power for the Bulls, Raptors, and Wizards to stop. The Thunder probably match up better with the Cavs than they did Miami. The Spurs might still be better too.

I don't know... what's a team that plays good defense without any good defenders? You absolutely need the right coach and system to play good D. And in the end, I think you still have to have the horses. Orlando played some great defense under Van Gundy with mediocre to bad perimeter defenders but they had Dwight Howard in the middle during about a five year stretch of play that was Russell-esque. And on the flip side, Houston had Asik and Howard last season and still sucked defensively, so it clearly isn't just about getting great defensive bigs.

We'll see what kind of coach Blatt is, but I just don't see Cleveland as having the players to play adequate D. LeBron and Varejao are literally the only legitimate defenders they've got, and LeBron wasn't good last year and you aren't realistically getting more than 1500 minutes from Varejao. No MLE. Only the BAE and signing old ring chasers on min deals to work with in FA.

What a team/player will do is limited by what they can do.

As I see it, they've got two basic choices:

1.) trade some guys for defenders.

or

2.) say screw it, we're going to focus on offense and go small to put our best players on the floor.

Unless something just falls into their lap, you know they're going to go with option 2.

And if the goal is just to win the East, it could work.

[Sticksboi05]

I think Cleveland is the clear favorite if they stay healthy. As much a favorite as Miami was the previous three seasons. They have way too much fire power for the Bulls, Raptors, and Wizards to stop. The Thunder probably match up better with the Cavs than they did Miami. The Spurs might still be better too.

 

 

I don't have them over San Antonio or OKC bare minimum in the West. 

[Going Commando]

Speaking of Van Gundy, what about Detroit next season?

We haven't really talked much about it. But damn if that wasn't a nice hire for Detroit. I think he is the perfect coach for Drummond and I think he can get Josh Smith playing well if he wants to.

It's not working out with Monroe even though he's a good player. They need to get value for him. And I don't love Brandon Jennings as the starting PG.

Drummond is running around without any clue how to play defense. Just making plays of pure talent and instinct. A teacher like Van Gundy honing him and he can be another Dwight. And that explosion might happen as early as this season or next.

Josh Smith is a really good defensive player too--at PF. Not at SF. Deal Monroe and move Smith to PF full time and I think they could really have something.

They need a PG though. Jennings is going have to be way better.

[Predicto]

You have overrated LeBron's defense incredibly these past two pages.

 

Perhaps.  I think that he was called upon to do too much last year, and his defense suffered.  Miami made it to the finals with Wade missing half the year, an only intermittently effective Bosh, no point guard and no bench.  Lebron played 38 minutes a game, handled the ball, led the team in points, rebounds, and assists.  

 

I can't prove it, but I think to conserve energy Lebron saved his best defensive efforts for the last 8 minutes of the game, and I suspect Spolstra was in on it.   With a real point guard handling the ball in Cleveland I think we might see that year was an aberration and get a turn back toward the old Lebron on defense.  Maybe not all the way back, but most of the way.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Predicto

[Going Commando]

I don't have them over San Antonio or OKC bare minimum in the West.

Agreed. San Antonio will still be elite next season. They're basically the same team as the past two years. They're a year away from major changes IMO. After this season, I bet Manu and Duncan retire and Leonard will have a huge extension kicking in. Then we'll see a drastically different SA team. I think Parker and Splitter are actually the only Spurs under contract past next season.

But of course that doesn't mean the won't still be elite.

[Predicto]

Agreed. San Antonio will still be elite next season. They're basically the same team as the past two years. They're a year away from major changes IMO. After this season, I bet Manu and Duncan retire and Leonard will have a huge extension kicking in. Then we'll see a drastically different SA team. I think Parker and Splitter are actually the only Spurs under contract past next season.

But of course that doesn't mean the won't still be elite.

 

Heck, they may be elite until the day Popovich retires.  

[Destino]

Drummond is a super athlete. If Stan can coach him up and maybe teach him to hit a free throw he'll be one of the leagues best centers in no time. Averaging 13 and 13 in year two, with essentially no polish at all to his game? Not bad at all.

[Going Commando]

Heck, they may be elite until the day Popovich retires.

And beyond. That organization is truly first rate. As good as it gets in American sports. But it is kind of hard to see them avoiding a drop off in life after Duncan, Manu, and Pop.

[Sticksboi05]

Perhaps.  I think that he was called upon to do too much last year, and his defense suffered.  Miami made it to the finals with Wade missing half the year, an only intermittently effective Bosh, no point guard and no bench.  Lebron played 38 minutes a game, handled the ball, led the team in points, rebounds, and assists.  

 

I can't prove it, but I think to conserve energy Lebron saved his best defensive efforts for the last 8 minutes of the game, and I suspect Spolstra was in on it.   With a real point guard handling the ball in Cleveland I think we might see that year was an aberration and get a turn back toward the old Lebron on defense.  Maybe not all the way back, but most of the way.

 

That might help but it doesn't help when the other two key players on the team aren't good defenders, especially Kyrie who is an absolutely pathetic defender.  Right there with Harden who I despise.

[Going Commando]

How are the Knicks spending 89 million on that roster this season? That's crazy. I was just perusing the Knicks board on RealGM and was astonished by how many fans thought their team would finish top 5 in the East. The most they seem willing to begrudge is that it will be a tough fight with the Raptors and Nets to win the division but they should do it.

They're 10th seed bound.