sempre_victrix Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 6 hours ago, RansomthePasserby said: I like the Washington Devils. Our mascot could have horns and wear a suit and tie like a politician. If you made it the Red Devils, we get to keep the old R helmets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander -JB- Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said: If you made it the Red Devils, we get to keep the old R helmets Even better yet what about White Devils lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 4 hours ago, spjunkies said: Snyder could probably by the rights from Ted. I don't think Ted would sell anyway. Truthfully, Ted would love to go back to the Bullets name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Kev Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Silly: Washington Wokes. Scary: Washington Psychopaths. Alternative: Washington Warriors. Preferred: Washington Redskins. <Edit> I've just realised that the word "alternative" is made up of the words "alter native". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, -JB- said: Even better yet what about White Devils lol Now you're just trolling Do we have any helmets with a W on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Generals is a punch line. No thank you. Saw this coming years ago, but it's not fun being the target of the latest cultural and moral orthodoxy litmus test for the America Left wing. We're hated as stand-ins for the white southern conservatives that mainstream America ****ing hates right now. It's not rational, but here we are. When, if ever, was Redskins generally used as a derogatory term for Native Americans? When has the name hurt anybody? Do the vast majority of Native Americans not live their lives without caring about us at all? The name is an irrelevancy to everyone but us Redskins fans. But it's become a proxy culture war between white liberals and conservatives. Broader liberal political impotence has been channeled into energy for this fight because forcing us to change the team name is a way to crap on a relatively obscure sacred cow and claim a symbolic victory against white southern wrongthink. I think it's very difficult for a person not affected by this term to assess whether it is actually hurting anyone or not. I had a similar discussion with my mom recently because here in Germany and Austria many things are re-branded and she doesn't agree or understand. We have old folk songs that warn about drinking coffee because you don't want to become a "muslim man", dishes that are named after marginalized Eastern European ethnic groups, a mix of beer and coke which is colloquially called "negro", etc. Her point basically was that none of that was meant in a derogatory way. It was just normal to call it that back in the day and no one is saying these things out of disrespect and she thinks it's exaggerated to re-name all of that. Here is the thing though. From research we know that language plays a big role in forming and manipulating opinions and creating subconscious beliefs. Even though people might not think it is a big thing and are actually convinced that they do not mean it in a harmful way it still can create an environment that ultimately hurts the affected community. Many people here claim that we should focus on more important matters like actually directly helping the communities and not bother about these issues. But if you think that people dressing up in funny costumes, painting their faces red and mimicking random battlecries has absolutely no effect on the subconscious perception of Native Americans I think you are not being honest to yourself. So even if it might just be a small issue on a very long list of issues that these communities are facing why just sweep those things aside? It's possible to do several things at once. Things like these can actually contribute to such groups being marginalized. And when you question whether the name has hurt anyone it's not always about an immediate direct insult but has to be put in a bigger picture and into historic context to really judge the impact. I am not claiming that this is irrefutable and that the name change would have a big impact but to just say it's not harming because it isn't meant that way is short sighted from my point of view. And I don't think this is an issue of left or rigth. This is not a political issue but a sociological issue and if people actually cared about the well-being of these people you should at least be open towards having the debate. And let's be honest, we already know that it is hurting at least a proportion of the Native American community so why disregard their opinions just because other Native Americans might not feel it's derogatory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Generals is a punch line. No thank you. Saw this coming years ago, but it's not fun being the target of the latest cultural and moral orthodoxy litmus test for the America Left wing. We're hated as stand-ins for the white southern conservatives that mainstream America ****ing hates right now. It's not rational, but here we are. When, if ever, was Redskins generally used as a derogatory term for Native Americans? When has the name hurt anybody? Do the vast majority of Native Americans not live their lives without caring about us at all? The name is an irrelevancy to everyone but us Redskins fans. But it's become a proxy culture war between white liberals and conservatives. Broader liberal political impotence has been channeled into energy for this fight because forcing us to change the team name is a way to crap on a relatively obscure sacred cow and claim a symbolic victory against white southern wrongthink. What? I thought you were, like, the T-Rex of liberalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 5 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said: FRANK HERZOG / Former voice of the team .... or if they stage a contest with fans to pick a new name. The Washington Boaty McBoatfaces it is then, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Skins Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Personally it's going to be hard to support anything else. I started following the Redskins when my Father was visiting DC back in the days. Then we were lucky to see a lot of them on terrestrial television during the 1980's and 90s, culminating in the Superbowl wins. Two of which I remember. It was the history of the team, the awesomeness of the fight song, the helmet, the great players we had, that kept me invested. (I have a signed Darrell Green helmet FFS!) You change the name and presumably the colours, that doesn't all just transfer to the new team. You lose it all! I get that folks in DC will probably support the "new" team but it's basically just on a par with an Expansion Team or one of these relocated teams. I do also freely admit that being English means I don't understand the whole Indian Wars thing so if it can be proved to be genuinely upsetting people then fine, go ahead and change the name. Just don't expect it to mean that everything carries on the same, just with a different slogan. I live in Wimbledon. When they became Milton Keynes no one followed the new team (admittedly they did also move a few miles up the road too!). I guess we will just have to hang on and hope we get a London team soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 9 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said: My issue with Warriors is that there's a good chance we'll be sticking to the Native American theme. I think if we're going to make a change, a full change away from the theme is necessary. I think it depends on what imagery accompanied it. Heck even the most zealot name changer, UnWise Mike, seems OK with Warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Skins Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Just now, Skinsinparadise said: I think it depends on what imagery accompanied it. Heck even the most zealot name changer, UnWise Mike, seems OK with Warriors. As long as you play the "...come out and play" music when they run onto the field! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Panninho said: And I don't think this is an issue of left or rigth. This is not a political issue but a socialogical issue and if people actually cared about the well-being of these people you should at least be open towards having the debate. Unfortunately, especially now, everything in the US is political. Both sides have politicized a damn virus and potential medications for it. If you don't see how this is a proxy war between left and right in the US, you must not be fixated on American politics like a some Europeans. This name, to me, is not a slur. The Redskins have been the only team I've ever been a fan of, since I was 5 years old. My family was a Colts household and I have slowly swayed them to be Redskins fans. I love the history and imagery. God, I love the fight song when we score. The name was created by NA themselves and they freely used the term, To my knowledge, this organization has never mocked NA or their culture, although Marshal did tell the NA coach to wear a headdress during some games, which, even in those days, was pretty insensitive. Yes, Marshal was a terrible bigot towards AA and he's getting his just dues, but all of that was way before my time. And way before the time of 90% the people upset with the name. Based on anecdotes about Marshal, he had no ill will towards Native Americans. Honestly, you name your sports team after something you hated? Twice? The logo was designed by a NA. Yes, I am sure that there are some Native Americans that are honestly offended by the name, just as there are many that are proud that an NFL franchise is named the Redskins. How many NA will be disappointed with it being changed? It's impossible to please everyone. I don't know what the answer is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, UK Skins said: As long as you play the "...come out and play" music when they run onto the field! yep. Or and considering I am already a fan of cheesy 80s music, might be fun to co-opt the song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Love the song, but not the vid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said: Unfortunately, especially now, everything in the US is political. Both sides have politicized a damn virus and potential medications for it. If you don't see how this is a proxy war between left and right in the US, you must not be fixated on American politics like a some Europeans. This name, to me, is not a slur. The Redskins have been the only team I've ever been a fan of, since I was 5 years old. My family was a Colts household and I have slowly swayed them to be Redskins fans. I don't disagree that everything in the USA is political. In regards to swaying your family to become Redskins fans, I'm sure that whole Mayflower moving trucks in the middle of the night episode greatly helped your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Just now, sempre_victrix said: Love the song, hate the video. I cannot imagine this being played as the team takes the field. Agree with every part of that. Just having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said: Unfortunately, especially now, everything in the US is political. Both sides have politicized a damn virus and potential medications for it. If you don't see how this is a proxy war between left and right in the US, you must not be fixated on American politics like a some Europeans. This name, to me, is not a slur. The Redskins have been the only team I've ever been a fan of, since I was 5 years old. My family was a Colts household and I have slowly swayed them to be Redskins fans. I love the history and imagery. God, I love the fight song when we score. The name was created by NA themselves and they freely used the term, To my knowledge, this organization has never mocked NA or their culture, although Marshal did tell the NA coach to wear a headdress during some games, which, even in those days, was pretty insensitive. It's impossible to not notice the political rift in the US and how everything becomes political there, it's also not sooo different here in Europe. But that doesn't make it right and I don't think people should engage in it to the point where everything is dismissed because it comes from the other side. Because ultimately this issue is about the people that might be affected, so why not be open to the sociological debate and consider all aspects of the topic? I can see your point and I also believe you that you don't see it as a slur. But that does not mean the people affected by this feel that way or that other non-affected people feel as you or that, in a bigger context, the usage of the symbols and names - even when not meant derogatory by most - do not foster a problemactic picture of the NA community. I also love the logo and I'd like nothing more than to keep it because it isn't controversial. Unfortunately, I cannot say that for sure because we know some NA are hurting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said: In regards to swaying your family to become Redskins fans, I'm sure that whole Mayflower moving trucks in the middle of the night episode greatly helped your case. Not really. My dad was not much of a football fan at all until well after the Colts left town. He followed the Redskins as a way to have something else to talk to his sons about and now he's a fan. My mom stayed a Colts fan for a few years afterwards, and even now, pulls for the Ravens almost as much as she does for the Redskins. We live far enough from both teams' cities that we feel no geographical connection to either team. I'm slightly closer to Baltimore than DC, as the crow flies. I went to a couple Stallions games and really enjoyed them. Baltimore really gave them the ****ty end of the stick, considering they won the Grey Cup. Let's face it, the NFL does everything it can to force people to watch a geographically close team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 I have been against changing the name but given current conditions I think it's time. Keep it close - I heard the Warriors had a lot of momentum. Keep the colors the same and change the helmet back to an arrow or something nondescript. It would be a good way to show support for much needed change in how we view and react to racism - perceived or real. I say the last part as in my heart of hearts I just don't see Redskins as a team name as racist. It's all in how it's used. But Ok, if it will help change the discourse and help participate in the solution to racial inequality, then do it. In the end it's just a name. Dwayne Haskins has no better or worse chance of being a legitimate starting QB based on the name on his jersey with all other things being equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 My overall point is I got no issues with anyone who has issues with changing the name on either side. It's all personal preference and we all rock the way it fits us as fans. For me, it matters nothing to me. I don't associate the name with the memories of the team for me it's the coaches-players, games, etc. To me there is a coolness to keeping the name. I got no problem with it on a personal basis. But also find upside to changing it, too. Got no problem with either way. As for the name change movement, I admit I didn't love watching my young kids harassed in Arizona as they are headed to a Redskins game. It's kind of sad to me that you got to deal with being shamed for being a fan of any team -- even when you don't agree with those who are doing the shaming. It's just not how sports typically rolls. The idea that I have to coach the kids up as to how to defend that the name isn't racist. I don't love that. And that on rare occasion I myself randomly have to defend it. I had one person approach me at a breakfast joint one time and said dude you shouldn't be wearing something with that racist name. And granted it rarely pops up. But still I don't have to worry about any of that crap when it comes to other teams I root for. Sports to me is supposed to be fun. We talk about how politics shouldn't impinge on all of this. But we can't choose whether things are or should be political or not. Whether we like it or not or agree with it or not, the name is political. And is becoming more so What other team in sports has this dynamic like that -- where you got to worry about stuff like that? Some say the other Native American team names. But it really isn't the same intensity as our team. Granted, if the Redskins change their name. I'd put money that the heat will come hotter on the other native american named teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: My overall point is I got no issues with anyone who has issues with changing the name on either side. It's all personal preference and we all rock the way it fits us as fans. For me, it matters nothing to me. I don't associate the name with the memories of the team for me it's the coaches-players, games, etc. To me there is a coolness to keeping the name. I got no problem with it on a personal basis. But also fund upside to changing it, too. Got no problem with either way. As for the name change movement, I admit I didn't love watching my young kids harassed in Arizona as they are headed to a Redskins game. It's kind of sad to me that you got to deal with being shamed for being a fan of any team -- even when you don't agree with those who are doing the shaming. It's just not how sports typically rolls. The idea that I have to coach the kids up as to how to defend that the name isn't racist. I don't love that. And that on rare occasion I myself randomly have to defend it. I had one person approach me at a breakfast joint one time and said dude you shouldn't be wearing something with that racist name. And granted it rarely pops up. But still I don't have to worry about any of that crap when it comes to other teams I root for. Sports to me is supposed to be fun. We talk about how politics shouldn't impinge on all of this. But we can't choose whether things are or should be political or not. Whether we like it or not or agree with ut, the name is political. and is becoming more so What other team in sports has this dynamic like that -- where you got to worry about stuff like that? Some say the other Native American team names. But it really isn't the same intensity as our team. Granted, if the Redskins change their name. I'd put money that the heat will come hotter on the other native american named teams. I agree with everything you've said, aside from not having an issue with changing the name. The sad part is that there is a segment of our country that wants to make everything about politics and this segment has people on both sides. They can't stop themselves from tainting everything with it. God, just to be able to be lost in a football game, away from it all for 3 measly hours. Changing the name will only empower the people forcing the change and they will not stop here. I view them as bullies and bullies do not stop until you take a stand and pushes back. Reading the board, posters are already cognizant of how these enlightened people will view any potential names. They have literally been bullied in what the new name may be. Posters who like the current name are willing to give it up if it stops the endless drone around the name. More bullying. Again, I am not trying to disrespect anyone who is for a name change. I wish people would stop disrespecting those who are considering dumping the team over a name change. They do not consider doing so lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 27 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said: Let's face it, the NFL does everything it can to force people to watch a geographically close team. Umm, that's the whole point of the sports teams. Man I can't take you serious after this viewpoint. The team is supposed to represent a certain area. The teams are placed in heavily populated areas to represent that particular area. Otherwise why not put a team in a bubble lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, skinfan2k said: Umm, that's the whole point of the sports teams. Man I can't take you serious after this viewpoint. The team is supposed to represent a certain area. The teams are placed in heavily populated areas to represent that particular area. Otherwise why not put a team in a bubble lol. A. Don't give a **** who you take seriously. B. The NFL allows teams to pick up and move based on market conditions and has nothing to do with loyalty to a city. It's all about marketing and dollars. If the Redskins moved to London, would you still be a fan or would you switch to the Ravens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Just now, sempre_victrix said: A. Don't give a **** who you take seriously. B. The NFL allows teams to pick up and move based on market conditions and has nothing to do with loyalty to a city. It's all about marketing and dollars. If the Redskins moved to London, would you still be a fan or would you switch to the Ravens? if the redskins moved to London, I wouldn't be a fan. I would naturally watch more ravens game. It's literally the same thing as Orioles/Nats. Did I go to a ton of Orioles games? hell yeah. Did I root for them to win sure? I usually went to Os game to see the other teams stars. When DC got their team, I immediately flipped. Of course the NFL will allow teams to pick up and move. If you don't support them financially, why would they stay? If you have no loyalty to them, why would they?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 For the people who would prefer to keep the name: Let's first accept the fact that this team isn't the same one as we grew up loving. Daniel Snyder has ruined that team. The team we grew up loving was generally very successful. They won Super Bowls and were contenders regularly. Recently, they're down there with the Browns, Bengals, Lions, Jets, etc. There is not culture. Repeat. There is no culture here in Washington. The team that sucks year in and year out is not the Washington Redskins that I grew up rooting for. It's some sort of co-opted ****ization of that team that's designed to extract money from people who are stuck in their ways. It grooms no players to be fan favorites and has no leadership that creates any sort of culture that makes its fans proud. Snyder has run this team's name through the mud. As someone who used to be vehemently anti-name change, I'll gladly move on from the Redskins name so that we can start a new chapter and stop running the team's history into the ground. It's the next best thing to Snyder selling the team. He doesn't deserve the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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