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Is it arrogant to claim a special relationship with the Creator of the Universe?

alexey

By alexey
in The Tailgate

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Taylor703

Taylor703

Posted
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I don't believe it's arrogant at all. I fully believe in allowing people to worship whatever they may choose, however they so choose. I may not fully agree with religion or that one-being created all however it's not my place to tell someone they're wrong in there belief. I think it's much more arrogant for someone to tell another human-being what they believe is a crock or phony. If believing they have a special relationship with there creator is what makes them happy, who am I to tell them they're wrong or arrogant?

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Renegade7

Renegade7

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Is it arrogant to claim that "I wish you would just leave me the **** alone about what I want to believe?"

Seriously, this imaginary friend, grandpa in the sky commentary is starting to get on my last nerve. Just because you don't believe it and are content with being nothing but nothing once your finite life is over doesn't mean you have to be a freakin jackass towards the rest of us. By all means, believe whatever you want to believe to get from one day to the next. But this country gained ground, traction, and was founded on the principle of people being able to believe whatever they want to believe.

Life sucks, and I'd like to believe someone is looking out for me when I'm feeling most alone and fragile. I'd rather die being 'arrogant' then alone...

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Hitman21ST

Hitman21ST

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Some people may consider either claim to be an exaggeration of one's importance.

I can use Biblical references to back up what I said.

By using the term "Creator of the Universe", at least for this thread, you are saying there is truthfulness in said Creator's scripture, so verses from that scripture should be enough evidence.

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DjTj

DjTj

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I find a belief that there is no God who knows and cares to be more humble. Maybe using the word "arrogant" was not a good choice for the poll.
Is the humblest philosophy necessarily the best one? Why?
I vividly remember one of several turning points in my thinking about this. I was reading an interview with a Holocaust survivor who said that he stopped believing in God after watching Nazis play soccer with a live baby until it turned into a bloody pulp, and then forcing the mother to wipe off the blood off their boots.

Free will or not, a loving/caring God allowing this just does not work out for me.

This is kind of a hijack, but as drtdrums references,
Did you just hijack your own thread with the Problem of Pain?
C.S. Lewis came to the opposite conclusion in the same crucible of World War II.
"In the fallen and partially redeemed universe we may distinguish (1) the simple good descending from God, (2) the simple evil produced by rebellious creatures, and (3) the exploitation of that evil by God for His redemptive purpose, which produces (4) the complex good to which accepted suffering and repented sin contribute. […] A merciful man aims at his neighbour's good as so does 'God's' will, consciously co-operating with 'the simple good'. A cruel man oppresses his neighbour and so does simple evil. But in doing such evil he is used by God, without his knowledge or consent, to produce the complex good — so that the first man serves God as a son, and the second as a tool. For you will certainly carry out God's purpose, however you act, but it makes a difference to you whether you serve like Judas or like John"
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0032.html
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alexey

alexey

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So, you start by saying you don't think Christians are arrogant and unethical and then you say that the belief that God has a special relationship with humanity isn't humble, and if I remember correctly earlier you argued that teaching children about the reality oh Hell is unethical.....so tell me how it is again that you don't think Christians are arrogant and unethical.

I think it is an acceptable part of a respectful discussion to say that I consider a particular belief arrogant or a particular action unethical. However, i do not think it is appropriate to make statements about the whole person or a group of people based on that.

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RansomthePasserby

RansomthePasserby

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What do you mean by "special?"

I believe that nobody can have a relationship with the Creator (to use your term) due to any qualities they posses or actions they take. I also believe all people are equally able to have that relationship, the Creator just chooses some and doesn't choose others. Whether or not he's chosen you doesn't mean you're inherently a better person.

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techboy

techboy

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Didn't we just do this last week?

You have to understand' date=' alexey is operating under the idea that our society represses certain topics and ideas, making for example many aspects of religion off limits.

This is an idea propogated heavily by the New Atheists, such as Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, in their multiple best-selling books. :ols:

I tend to agree. Alexy chill out for a little while

Thank you

I have to ask... is this "moderator zoony" or "member zoony" making this comment? Because while I would agree that moderators do not lose their right to voice their opinions when they become moderators, alexey might have taken this to be an official warning, and I'm not entirely certain that's how you intended it.

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Teller

Teller

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Nope but it is an indication that perhaps you should avoid threads where it is obvious that your beliefs may come into question by people who hold entirely different beliefs. :2cents:

Though this was directed at Renegade, let me just say a few things on this.

1) You're absolutely right, and it's been a hard lesson for me to learn over the years.

2) I personally enjoy discussing differences in philosophy, morality, and beliefs; especially where there is no "provable" answer (i.e. God.)

3) Such discussions are a lot more fun, and valuable, when they aren't reduced to "you believe in the tooth fairy" vs. "you're going to hell."

Threads like this can be fun and rewarding for all involved. And hell, we may even discover some amount of common ground. But for me, alexey wanting to discuss religion (or lack of it) kindles in me the same kinds of feelings you guys must have when I'm talking about race. :)

Just my own couple of pennies.

:cheers:

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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted
If you like, you can read it like this:

Does a belief that the Creator of the Universe knows about you and cares about you reveal in you an exaggerated sense of your own importance?

Many creatures got sharp claws, sharp teeth, thick hides, tremendous speed, or various other advantages found throughout creation. One creature on this world got a thirst to understand creation and the means to do so. If God made this world He clearly singled humanity out as special.

I don't think it is arrogant to accept the idea that we are not the top of the pyramid and that we exist to serve a purpose. It's humbling, in fact.

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted
It obviously depends on what your beliefs are. Many people believe that God wants to have a relationship with them, my dear mother being one of them. I don't know what to believe and I don't care much for "faith." I can't do the believing without seeing, but who are you or I to tell somebody else that their beliefs are arrogant or unfounded?

Do you have free will?

---------- Post added June-26th-2012 at 09:00 PM ----------

If we assume there is a creator of the Universe, why wouldn't he want to have a relationship with me/us?

If I take time to create something, I know I normally interact with it until I'm done with it, and then I throw it away.

(Now, it is possible we are in God's "garbage can", but that doesn't seem logical to me.)

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

Posted
Posted
If you like, you can read it like this:

Does a belief that the Creator of the Universe knows about you and cares about you reveal in you an exaggerated sense of your own importance?

I actually think insulting, dismissive attitudes towards people who have faith and a belief in God to be far more arrogant than the belief that if a Creator of the universe is indeed factual, He created it with a purpose and that none of it was accidental.

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Hitman21ST

Hitman21ST

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(Now, it is possible we are in God's "garbage can", but that doesn't seem logical to me.)

Well, that actually did happen once, and God cleaned that garbage can with a pretty big flood...

the point being I agree with you, that we aren't in the "garbage can", because he has yet to set another cataclysmic event on us.

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted
Many creatures got sharp claws, sharp teeth, thick hides, tremendous speed, or various other advantages found throughout creation. One creature on this world got a thirst to understand creation and the means to do so. If God made this world He clearly singled humanity out as special.

I don't think it is arrogant to accept the idea that we are not the top of the pyramid and that we exist to serve a purpose. It's humbling, in fact.

I will point out in the context of intelligence of the universe, we might be indistinuishiable from a gnat.

Of course, I routinely engage in relationships with "creations" of mine at various intelligence levels (today I started a bacteria culture growing and then checked on them several times and will kill them tomorrow, I bathed and help get my two daughters to bed, I weeded and watered our garden, and spent some petting our two cats.)

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

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I will point out in the context of intelligence of the universe, we might be indistinuishiable from a gnat.

Of course, I routinely engage in relationships with "creations" of mine at various intelligence levels (today I started a bacteria culture growing and then checked on them several times and will kill them tomorrow, I bathed and help get my two daughters to bed, I weeded and watered our garden, and spent some petting our two cats.)

You created a cat? Now that's a neat trick!

280px-WalterBishopSnack.jpg

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PeterMP

PeterMP

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Posted
Well, that actually did happen once, and God cleaned that garbage can with a pretty big flood...

the point being I agree with you, that we aren't in the "garbage can", because he has yet to set another cataclysmic event on us.

I was talking about the Universe not the human race or even life on Earth.

I'm not a big fan of believing that the great flood literally happened here. There just isn't real good evidence to support it.

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