Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[TheGreatBuzz]

9 hours ago, Berggy9598 said:

The gap between what the rich and the poor get in terms of health care in this country is monumentally bigger than in any other first world country.

Sounds like the goal post are moving.  You said in every other first world country, a "human life is a human life."  Now you are admitting there is a gap but just saying ours is bigger (not gonna argue that either).  So how do you think the decisions should be made?  Answer my question from earlier with the homeless man and the billionaire.

 

9 hours ago, Berggy9598 said:

In this case my original post referred to the human life of a father of 3 that worked his entire life and raised one of the most respectful and kind hearted kids I've ever been around.  Yes, I value that life more so than that of a zygote.

And this is another problem when making decisions on who gets what care.  People get too emotionally involved.  And I appreciate that you value that life more than a zygote.  But how about something further along?  Since a human life is a human life in your words, what about a baby one day before being born compared to a baby one day after being born?  These issues are far more complicated than you seem to realize.

[Berggy9598]

I didn’t say in every other first world country a human life is a human life. You can see imaginary goal posts moving but you can’t see the little dot at the end of a sentence? Punctuation and context are your friends. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Berggy9598

[bearrock]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

It sounds good but how would it be enforced?  Are you suggesting a law that makes it illegal to pay for the private services of a better doctor?  Would the worst doctor in the country and the best doctor in the country be paid the same?  If not, who would fund the difference and how would it be decided who went to which doctor?

 

Your proposal sounds interesting but I don't see how it is realistic.

 

To clarify, my position isn't delivery of healthcare without consideration of financial ability.  In broad terms, my position is more B level healthcare for everyone, A level healthcare for those who can and are willing to pay more.  But I would view leveling the field more in terms of how procedures are reimbursed.  I think a system like applying the same reimbursement rate across the board for all procedures with regional adjustment (e.g. - heart surgery costs the same in a geographical region regardless of hospital or doctor.  The good doctors will get more clients and bad doctors will go out of business).  Where I view the money becoming a factor is whether a procedure is covered or not.  Let's say there is a super expensive procedure that insurance or government decides isn't worth the return (death panel?).  In that scenario, those who can afford it out of pocket will get it and those who can't won't.  

 

At the same time, I don't have any particular philosophical objection to same healthcare to all without consideration of financial ability.  But I share your concerns about feasability (for example, I wouldn't have any moral objection to convict every murderer, but ensure no innocent ever faces charges.  A laudable goal certainly, but how would you get it done?)

 

I asked more to see whether you would have a philosophical objection to a completely financially non-discriminatory healthcare. (And some may legitimately have that for legitimate reasons.  Not trying to throw them under the bus or anything)

[TheGreatBuzz]

15 hours ago, Berggy9598 said:

What should happen is what happens in every other first world country. A human life is a human life.  

 

1 hour ago, Berggy9598 said:

I didn’t say in every other first world country a human life is a human life. You can see imaginary goal posts moving but you can’t see the little dot at the end of a sentence? Punctuation and context are your friends. 

I get context and punctuation matter but you are contradicting yourself.  It is exactly what you said.

 

 

1 hour ago, bearrock said:

 

To clarify, my position isn't delivery of healthcare without consideration of financial ability.  In broad terms, my position is more B level healthcare for everyone, A level healthcare for those who can and are willing to pay more.  But I would view leveling the field more in terms of how procedures are reimbursed.  I think a system like applying the same reimbursement rate across the board for all procedures with regional adjustment (e.g. - heart surgery costs the same in a geographical region regardless of hospital or doctor.  The good doctors will get more clients and bad doctors will go out of business).  Where I view the money becoming a factor is whether a procedure is covered or not.  Let's say there is a super expensive procedure that insurance or government decides isn't worth the return (death panel?).  In that scenario, those who can afford it out of pocket will get it and those who can't won't.  

 

At the same time, I don't have any particular philosophical objection to same healthcare to all without consideration of financial ability.  But I share your concerns about feasability (for example, I wouldn't have any moral objection to convict every murderer, but ensure no innocent ever faces charges.  A laudable goal certainly, but how would you get it done?)

 

I asked more to see whether you would have a philosophical objection to a completely financially non-discriminatory healthcare. (And some may legitimately have that for legitimate reasons.  Not trying to throw them under the bus or anything)

 

I think you and I are probably actually pretty close in how we think it should work.  I just sound like a lot more of a dick when trying to say it.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

This isn’t hard. It’s like schools, police, roads, etc. The greatest good could come from the government insuring that everyone has access to the basic ______ that they need. If you’ve got the money and you want to send your kids to a private school, hire private security, take a toll road, or purchase increased coverage or have Dr. James Andrews do your knee surgery, you still can.

[Fresh8686]

9 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

This isn’t hard. It’s like schools, police, roads, etc. The greatest good could come from the government insuring that everyone has access to the basic ______ that they need. If you’ve got the money and you want to send your kids to a private school, hire private security, take a toll road, or purchase increased coverage or have Dr. James Andrews do your knee surgery, you still can.

Exactly, there are supposed to be threshold levels. X is the basic threshold level no one should fall under and Y is upper threshold limit no one should exceed, given that exceeding Y brings about the slippage of people under threshold X.

You have a floor and a ceiling and in between those limits a goldilocks zone. And there is a tension, a balance between the floor and ceiling that must be protected and maintained as humans progress and adapt, so that society can enjoy the fruits of that zone.

[JSSkinz]

After dealing with my 81 year old mothers health and the crappy Medicare doctors who want to keep her in their office and prevent her from seeing specialists who actually know how to fix problems I would never want Medicare for all, quite frankly I'm not sure I would want any government insurance.

 

I'm so frustrated with the entire Medicare process.

[TheGreatBuzz]

11 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

After dealing with my 81 year old mothers health and the crappy Medicare doctors who want to keep her in their office and prevent her from seeing specialists who actually know how to fix problems I would never want Medicare for all, quite frankly I'm not sure I would want any government insurance.

 

I'm so frustrated with the entire Medicare process.

Yup.  We already have a government run health care system.  Go ask anyone in the military how great they think their health care is.  If that doesnt convince you, swing by a VA clinic.

[killerbee99]

Wtf is a crappy medicare doctor... Why are you guys being slow, i thought medicare was goverment provided insurance that doctors get to see if they accept or not.... Seriously WTF is a crappy medicare doctor.. And why conflate that with VA hospitals which does have actual hospitals and suck because not enough doctors, and many veterans to care for, thus forever long appt. times and has nothing to do with govt subsidized insurance.......like seriously? 

 

So JSSKinz medicare doesnt suck..... Its the doctors that SUCK.... sick of people constantly poisoning the medicare for all discussion with anecdotes that dont even ****ing apply 

Edited April 4, 2019 by killerbee99

[grego]

The system can definitely incentivice sub par care. I've seen several back doctor's for injections and radio frequency nerve burning. One of them has a son who plays baseball with my son and told me, after two unsuccessful RF treatments that nobody he knows does it the 'right' way, the way they are trained. Instead of three treatments between the vertabrea, they do one because 80% of the time, that fixes it. And if they did it the right way, it'd take about twice as long, depending on prep time, etc. More patients, more insurance claims, more money. 

 

Now, think about paying what I do and my company does for insurance, and not getting stuff done the right way. Then when it doesn't work, you go back and they say insurance only covers the procedure once a year, so you're sol. 

[Captain Wiggles]

****ty doctors and ****ty insurance are two seperate issues tho. A lot of people seem to conflate the two.

[JSSkinz]

2 hours ago, killerbee99 said:

So JSSKinz medicare doesnt suck..... Its the doctors that SUCK.... sick of people constantly poisoning the medicare for all discussion with anecdotes that dont even ****ing apply 

Look I just got home and I'm tired, maybe on another day I'll breakdown my experiences over the past year with my mothers health but the short of it is we are on our 2nd doctor and getting the same runaround, the PCP has a stranglehold on her and refuses to approve the referral to the orthopedic who wants to give her a treatment (knee injection) that worked perfectly 8 years ago but it has a lifespan and needs to be done again.  The Ortho is ready, the PCP is hiding out and making excuses, giving bull**** cortisone injections that we know don't work and stalling the process for whatever reason.

 

In the year since my father passed, I've dealt with my mothers care and I've become scared to death of eventually being on Medicare.  I thought it was just me and maybe some bad luck but then I started asking people I work with and friends who are in their mid 40's and dealing with the same situations and I'm getting the same feedback from them. 

 

My initial impression after 1 year of dealing with this mess is that the PCP's either don't care or there is something in it for them to keep the patient at the PCP office and not send them to the specialists.

 

This is new for me so I'm not saying I know for a fact what the issue is but I've been in finance for 23 years and I'm good at sniffing out bull**** and something isn't right about the way she is being treated.

 

 

[Captain Wiggles]

21 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

My initial impression after 1 year of dealing with this mess is that the PCP's either don't care or there is something in it for them to keep the patient at the PCP office and not send them to the specialists.

 

 

 

You're correct. Some doctors don't give a **** and others are just motivated by money. In some cases its both. Hope you're able to find one that can truly help your mom. Don't stop the search imo.

 

 

After I moved here to NC 9 years ago I went through four doctors until I finally found a good one. I had one that would literally google my symptoms in front of me. It was like pulling teeth to get him to finally send me to a specialist.

Edited April 4, 2019 by clietas

[Larry]

3 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Yup.  We already have a government run health care system.  Go ask anyone in the military how great they think their health care is.  If that doesnt convince you, swing by a VA clinic.

 

Gallup: Americans With Government Health Plans Most Satisfied

 

Quote

 

Americans' satisfaction with the way the healthcare system works for them varies by the type of insurance they have. Satisfaction is highest among those with veterans or military health insurance, Medicare and Medicaid, and is lower among those with employer-paid and self-paid insurance. Americans with no health insurance are least satisfied of all.

 

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

26 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Gallup: Americans With Government Health Plans Most Satisfied

 

 

Damn.

 

I honestly don't think I have ever heard someone say they are happy with the system.  

[Larry]

22 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Damn.

 

I honestly don't think I have ever heard someone say they are happy with the system.  

 

It seems to be a topic with no middle ground. I think you can find reputable information saying that they're the best in the US. And equally reputable information saying they got better care in the Civil War. 

 

But yeah, I've been seeing surveys saying that vets rank the VA higher than private care for 40 years. 

[Simmsy]

2 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Damn.

 

I honestly don't think I have ever heard someone say they are happy with the system.  

There is a reason no congress person will give up theirs.

[JSSkinz]

12 hours ago, clietas said:

 

Hope you're able to find one that can truly help your mom. Don't stop the search imo.

We'll get it figured out, it just took a bit to realize what she had through Medicare was putting her at a disadvantage, we're switching to a PPO and moving on.

[bearrock]

38 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

We'll get it figured out, it just took a bit to realize what she had through Medicare was putting her at a disadvantage, we're switching to a PPO and moving on.

You should look into Medicare Advantage PPO (part C, I believe).  I do some elder law related work and I've heard good things from my clients.

[LadySkinsFan]

I have Medicare and a Plan F supplement. I basically don't pay anything and the monthly premium is worth it if I get really sick. I searched for a different prescription drug plan and found one that's $10.40/ month premium and by buying the scripts at the preferred drug store they are $0.00. Big change from $46/40/month premium and $60/3 months of scripts. 

 

right now I am happy with my coverage.

[LadySkinsFan]

Somewhat related to the ACA, Tennessee kicks kids off of Medicaid and passes "heartbeat" . How Prolife of them.  Another policy for Democrats to pound during election season. Call it what it is, Prodeath.

 

https://gritpost.com/tennessee-kicks-kids-medicaid/

 

 

[NoCalMike]

There likely will never be a system where the wealthy won't be able buy their way into the best care possible.   That is a given. 

 

The issue is for the rest of who want to get rid of a system where you take your child into the doctor for flu symptoms, they get their temperature taken, maybe a chest x-ray, and some medicine, and are sent home with a $5000 bill.

Edited April 4, 2019 by NoCalMike

[TheGreatBuzz]

3 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The issue is for the rest of who want to get rid of a system where you take your child into the doctor for flu symptoms, they get their temperature taken, maybe a chest x-ray, and some medicine, and are sent home with a $5000 bill.

I totally agree but that is why we need to focus on fixing healthcare costs.  Then talk about healthcare insurance.

[nonniey]

23 hours ago, clietas said:

****ty doctors and ****ty insurance are two seperate issues tho. A lot of people seem to conflate the two.

Just like they conflate having insurance and actually going to the doctor.

[Springfield]

20 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Damn.

 

I honestly don't think I have ever heard someone say they are happy with the system.  

 

Well im not happy with this private system.  Switching companies every November.  Having to change doctors if my current plan doesn’t have coverage.  Not being able to fill prescriptions at the same place with different companies.  Not covering certain very common drugs like hydrocodone.

 

Yeah.  It’s pretty awful.