The Hill: Opinion: Vote in French presidential election should be a warning for America

[nonniey]

http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/judd-gregg/225655-opinion-vote-in-french-presidential-election-should-be-a-warning-for-america

"The French have now elected a socialist government. This event should be instructive to us.

France currently has a government that absorbs more than 50 percent of its economy. They have a cradle-to-grave employment system, where once you have a job it is virtually impossible to lose it no matter your level of performance....................

.................The reason this is instructive is that it reflects the fact that there is a point of critical mass. If a culture gets to a position where your vote establishes your income, then it becomes rather reasonable to expect a massive growth in government, the outer limits of which have not even been reached in France.

The effect of this will not be apparent for a while. But the outcome is inevitable.

First, the government runs up massive debts to pay for its expenditures. When adding debt can no longer be done conveniently, it turns to a dramatically progressive tax policy. Both of these steps, when coupled with an irrational retirement system, lead to a dramatic drop in the productivity of the society and an inevitable resulting drop in the standard of living for all.

Ironically, all this is done under the banner of “fairness and equality.”........."

[FanboyOf91]

:yawnee:

I'm more worried about Marine Le Pen and the National Front.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Give me my Freedom Fries...I don want no French Fries!

[Wrong Direction]

[insert change of subject to capital gains tax rates. It is Bush, Ryan and Romney who will destroy this country. We must spend our way out of this problem. The ratio of givers to takers is secondary...a distraction from our problems.]

We now return to the subject at hand, that debt is destroying Europe despite high taxation.

[twa]

They were both Socialists,just one slightly more so....their glide path to unsustainability hasn't changed that much.

Kinda like the choice between O and Mitt, and our own descent

how fast ya wanna hit the ground?

[LadySkinsFan]

Yeah, Mitt is far right and Obama is center right. The Right is not right, it is wrong for us. We should be progressive, not regressive. Time marches on, it doesn't go backward.

[mcsluggo]

there is fairly limited comparisons between France and the US...

When the right in America complains about commies and hard core socialist Democrat Party... they are basically full of poop. In France, though.. there really ARE commie pinko parties.

When the left in America complains about facists and hard core nazi Repulican Party... they are basically full of poop. In France, though.. there really ARE Brown Shirt parties.

But, overall, the Sarkozies et al are the "center right" component of the country.. and are quite a bit left of teh mainstream Dem positions. The socialists (who just won) are WELL left of everything that is ever discussed in American circles from the mainstream Dem or GOP...

[Thiebear]

Yeah, Mitt is far right and Obama is center right. The Right is not right, it is wrong for us. We should be progressive, not regressive. Time marches on, it doesn't go backward.

Mitt and President Obama are center left with splatterings of right for the both of them. Neither side has a lock hold on what is correct for the country.

Individual people show up every once in a while and make a difference.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah, Mitt is far right and Obama is center right. The Right is not right, it is wrong for us. We should be progressive, not regressive. Time marches on, it doesn't go backward.

Backwards is exactly where France is going. They came from a society where they worked for the Government or a Monarchy, which was the same thing basically. They are now going back to it.

[LadySkinsFan]

Backwards is exactly where France is going. They came from a society where they worked for the Government or a Monarchy, which was the same thing basically. They are now going back to it.

So Americans work for and are governed by representatives of corporations. The difference is that at least people in France aren't without healthcare and have a decent retirement system. In the US, the corporations are only concerned about the size and growth of profits and the growth of income of the 1% and too bad the the rest of us. I don't like that.

[Stadium-Armory]

This is a couple years old, but is still relevant:

[Teller]

Yeah, Mitt is far right and Obama is center right.

How in the world do you arrive at a conclusion like that? Not trying to be rude, just interested in your logic.

[FrFan]

Sarkozy decided to run for another term despite all the polls showing a majority of people didn't want him anymore. Those people voted to get rid of the person instead of voting for the program. That's how dumb they are, and we are all going to pay for this. Republicans could have won the election hands down with Fillon (prime minister) or Juppé (minister of defense) as their candidate.

Hollande was elected, or should I say Hollandreou, someone who wasn't supposed to be there, a guy who was always mocked by his fellow socialists friends (soft strawberry, flan), last but not least Mitterrand (2 terms as president) and Jospin (1 term as prime minister under Chirac) never wanted him to be a part of their governments.

:yawnee:

I'm more worried about Marine Le Pen and the National Front.

Her father was Mitterrand's tool to weaken the Republicans, since then no government could have really slowed down the NF. I fear the NF influence is going to increase since Marine decided to get rid of his father's provocations and insults, and Hollande wants to let the foreigners (outside of the UE) vote in 2013. It's a strategy for the socialists, the greatest number of foreigners outside UE are leftists, then Hollande will implement a part of proportional representation so the FN will have deputies (just like in 1986), and therefore weakening the Republicans in the house of representatives.

[Thiebear]

So Americans work for and are governed by representatives of corporations. The difference is that at least people in France aren't without healthcare and have a decent retirement system. In the US, the corporations are only concerned about the size and growth of profits and the growth of income of the 1% and too bad the the rest of us. I don't like that.

Its my understanding the people of the United Coporations of America also have health care and a decent retirement system setup?

Have enough credits and you get SS and Medicare or Medicaid and Obamacare.

work for the gov't = pension, have a 401k - get that with corporations matching etc.

As with SS the France pension/retirement program is going through some rough times at due to demographics etc. (hence the riots) over 2 years extension.

work 40+ years and get on a weird two tier systems ...

Ask France about their immigration programs now

[ABQCOWBOY]

So Americans work for and are governed by representatives of corporations. The difference is that at least people in France aren't without healthcare and have a decent retirement system. In the US, the corporations are only concerned about the size and growth of profits and the growth of income of the 1% and too bad the the rest of us. I don't like that.

These are your words, not mine. My comments were specific to France. If you would like to discuss America, I am willing to do this but what you have said here are your words for the record.

People in France have healthcare, as do people in the US. Retirement is another question but for the record, cradle to grave retirement is also what is destroying their economy. I am not for this.

[twa]

How in the world do you arrive at a conclusion like that? Not trying to be rude, just interested in your logic.

it's easy, she considers herself a centrist

[nonniey]

Yeah, Mitt is far right and Obama is center right. The Right is not right, it is wrong for us. We should be progressive, not regressive. Time marches on, it doesn't go backward.

That's just silly. The sky is purple too I suppose. Bottomline is Obama is on left half of the Democratic party which makes him left wing in this country (not far left but left, but compared to France I'd concede he'd be center right). Romney most definately is a moderate/centrist. And no history has already shown the left is wrong. Where the far left gains acendency poverty eventually follows.

[FrFan]

but compared to France I'd concede he'd be center right).

Exactly, he would be center right in a moderate liberal government.

[zoony]

How is he going to be socialist, exactly? He's promised to reform austerity measures and start hiring people in government again. Great. How?

You gonna sell some bonds to pay for your reduced austerity? Alienate Merkel while Greece is on the brink? Good luck with that.

There are two courses here. 1. Continue the Sarkozy way of working closely with the Germans to stem the crisis. 2. Suicide.

Should be interesting.

[thebluefood]

Yeah, Mitt is far right and Obama is center right.

So that would make Eugene Debs just left of center for you then, eh?

Saying that the left or right as a whole is "wrong" or "right" for a country seems a bit much and maybe a tad naive (though I do concede that you are older than I am and I do not mean that as an insult). There are merits to both left and right wing policies. The important thing to do is strike that right balance between the two, to do whatever is best for the nation and its people. That differs from nation to nation.

A socialist government way work in some nations. I don't believe the United States is one of those nations.

[Predicto]

Kind of a crappy editorial. I would expect better from Judd Gregg, he's not a mindless flamethrower.

France has huge problems to face, and it has cowardly politicians who refuse to tell its people the truth. In that the two countries are the same.

Otherwise, there is very little parallel between the US and France. What is going on over there is the same thing that has been going on over there from time immemorial. The French whip out the pitchforks and take to the streets at the drop of a hat. Their enormous welfare state is unsustainable without ridiculous levels of taxation that crush growth and foster unemployment, and their protectionist trade policies bite them in the azz.

The USA isn't even in the same timezone as France on any of these issues.

[zoony]

Greece elections are gonna be really fun.

Really, democracy is the absolute worst thing for most of the EU right now. What the people want is not what is good for them.

[Larry]

[insert change of subject to capital gains tax rates. It is Bush, Ryan and Romney who will destroy this country. We must spend our way out of this problem. The ratio of givers to takers is secondary...a distraction from our problems.]

We now return to the subject at hand, that debt is destroying Europe despite high taxation.

Now why would someone want to inject comparisons to the US Economy, into a thread where the subject of the thread is an attempt to point at a country that "currently has a government that absorbs more than 50 percent of its economy", and the poster is trying to claim that this has something to do with the US, where total government revenues are currently 32% of GDP, which appear to be near all-time lows. (I say "appear", because my usual source, usgovernmentrevenue.com, seems to have a problem with their data, unless I want to assume that between 91 and 92, government revenues instantly went from 18% of GDP, to 33%.)?

[Predicto]

Yeah, Mitt is far right and Obama is center right.

That may have been true on the overall world scale back when there were a lot of communist countries, but that scale isn't really relevant anymore, and it certainly isn't relevant in America. There is a reason we don't emulate many of the failed leftist regimes in the world. Their systems stink much worse than ours.

And I say that as a bleeding heart liberal.

[zoony]

if conservative half-wits get to compare Obama-nomics to France and Greece, I get to compare Bush etc. to Iceland and Ireland.