The Official(ish) 2012 Quarterback Prospect Thread

[SkinsHokieFan]

Why do people keep saying this? We are not out of any race. We have the ability to move up and get whoever we want. Hell the Colts may not even end up with the 1st pick now. It could be St. Louis and that puts Luck in play at that point. All you need is a trade partner. Will it cost a little more now? Yes. But we will be drafting one of the top 3 QB's this year.

I don't understand this assumption

There are several issues

1) Cleveland now is picking higher then us and has more ammo then us to move up further if needed

2) Mike may not like one of the "top 3" QBs just like he didn't like Gabbert

3) The cost to move up may be too much or a team like Miami may be even more desperate and we aren't able to match their offer

I understand players have a job to do, but its asinine to state "Mike will get his guy" even if we win out. Thats absurd logic

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Who do most of you guys like in the second-tier of available QBs? Let's assume we beat Minnesota and end a little out of the top-10 or so and that Shanahan isn't planning on using an entire draft on a QB via an Atlanta-ian trade...who is the best of the rest after Luck, Griffin, and Barkley? It's very possible we'll take an impact player at another position in the first round and draft QB in the second round.

[Phixius]

I understand players have a job to do, but its asinine to state "Mike will get his guy" even if we win out. Thats absurd logic

So is losing to get in good draft position.

[urblessed00]

There is a reson why qb's go in the second round. The Brees and Brady's...........are far and few between. Andy Dalton is doing...................ok. You get what you pick. Especially lately, it's first round qb's paying dividends. Not lower round picked qb's. I suppose we are supposed to embrace Foles, Wheedon and Tannehill now? Ugggh

[DC9]

Who do most of you guys like in the second-tier of available QBs? Let's assume we beat Minnesota and end a little out of the top-10 or so and that Shanahan isn't planning on using an entire draft on a QB via an Atlanta-ian trade...who is the best of the rest after Luck, Griffin, and Barkley? It's very possible we'll take an impact player at another position in the first round and draft QB in the second round.

It would probably be Landry Jones/Tannehill who are mid-late first rounders according to the latest mock on Walter Football.

But I am all for this team winning out, drafting Michael Floyd (or Manti Te'o if Fletch leaves) and then coming back and getting Kirk Cousins or Russell Wilson in the second.

HAIL!

[mjpanzer]

What if Colts don't take Luck?

That means Brown, Miami, Seattle, or us moved up. If it's us, we have Luck.

If it isn't us, that leaves no other team (besides Cleveland) in front of us to take a QB, allowing RG3 or Barkley to fall to us at 6 or 7.

People need to relax. There are still 2 weeks left in the NFL, college bowl games, combine, pro-day, and individual workouts to figure things out.

For all we know the scouting staff has realized a guy like Tannehill is the best thing since sliced bread.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

It would probably be Landry Jones/Tannehill who are mid-late first rounders according to the latest mock on Walter Football.

But I am all for this team winning out, drafting Michael Floyd (or Manti Te'o if Fletch leaves) and then coming back and getting Kirk Cousins or Russell Wilson in the second.

HAIL!

Personally, I don't think those guys are "franchise" QBs...and fwiw, Russell Wilson is only 5-11.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Who do most of you guys like in the second-tier of available QBs? Let's assume we beat Minnesota and end a little out of the top-10 or so and that Shanahan isn't planning on using an entire draft on a QB via an Atlanta-ian trade...who is the best of the rest after Luck, Griffin, and Barkley? It's very possible we'll take an impact player at another position in the first round and draft QB in the second round.

The OSU guy Weedon is quality, but would you want to take a guy who'd be 29 through next year? Jones has dipped this year and could do with staying at OU to improve. Tannehill has a LOT of upside, but he's very raw and inexperienced. Certainly not one who could start day one.

The three you referenced, particularly the first two are the key to fixing this once and for all. After that your getting merely good.

Hail.

[Rabsuz]

Mike Shanahan knows what he's doing, he thinks ahead and he has obviously thought about the draft, let him figure out the how, who, and where. He knows that this win puts us picking at number 7, and I'm sure he has a plan on what he wants already and how to achieve it. I wouldn't worry about draft position because I assure you Mike knows what he is doing regarding the draft, its not like he doesn't know that this win puts us out of the top 5. He plans ahead, that's what he is payed for, it's not like he wakes up in April and realizes he needs to figure out what to do. He wouldn't shoot himself in the foot for no reason, and he plays to win, because if I were a player and my coach was tanking, I would demand a trade.

We will be fine, I think we trade up because after that Locker incident last April I think he will be much more aggressive in the draft to get what he wants.

[DC9]

Personally, I don't think those guys are "franchise" QBs...and fwiw, Russell Wilson is only 5-11.

If you think RG3 is 6'3" I have some real estate for sale.

I like Wilson and think he fits the offense. I like Cousins too. I've never been big on Big 10 quarterbacks, but these two look fantastic.

Why would you say neither are franchise guys?

[pimpumd]

I don't understand this assumption

There are several issues

1) Cleveland now is picking higher then us and has more ammo then us to move up further if needed

This is an assumption. You're assuming Cleveland wants to draft a QB with their top-10 pick or move up even further in the top-10 to draft a QB. Just sayin'.

I understand players have a job to do, but its asinine to state "Mike will get his guy" even if we win out. Thats absurd logic

Why is the possibility that Mike might "get his guy" even if we win out so absurd? It took Jacksonville a 2nd round pick to move up 6 spots in the first round last year. If we're picking somewhere around #10 in 2012, you don't think it'd be possible to move up and get RG3/Barkley if Mike really wanted to? I'm sure you're also aware of Mike trading up for Cutler in Denver. Just doesn't seem so "asinine" when you think about it.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

If you think RG3 is 6'3" I have some real estate for sale.

I like Wilson and think he fits the offense. I like Cousins too. I've never been big on Big 10 quarterbacks, but these two look fantastic.

Why would you say neither are franchise guys?

I don't think RG3 is 6-3 but he's not 5-11 either.

After thinking about it for a moment I suppose its possible that Wilson could be a franchise QB.

I definitely don't feel that way about Cousins.

He reminds me of Kyle Orton in that he's a good intermediate passer but lacks a little zip going downfield.

Thats my take.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It would probably be Landry Jones/Tannehill who are mid-late first rounders according to the latest mock on Walter Football.

But I am all for this team winning out, drafting Michael Floyd (or Manti Te'o if Fletch leaves) and then coming back and getting Kirk Cousins or Russell Wilson in the second.

HAIL!

Right...assuming we win our way out of a top guy, we will just have to have faith in the drastically improved front office. It's not ideal, but if Grossman can win 6 games with this team I have to imagine even a "good" college prospect can have this team in a position to compete moving forward.

Not everyone gets to be the Manning-led Colts or Rodgers-led Packers. I'll say one thing...if we continue adding young talent loke we did last off-season, QB will become slightly less significant.

[darrelgreenie]

....The only area out of those where Griffin beats Luck (as far as Elway comparisons) is his arm and touch on bucket passes. From your post...Footwork: Luck. Poise: Luck but Griffin is a close 2nd, Throwing motion: Luck, Accuracy: draw, Throwing on time: advantage Luck but Griffin is close,

Disagree.

But, even if arm and touch on bucket throws were the only area where Griff is better those are kinda a big deal for a QB.

I think an either/or all or none comparison isn't very meaningful since both of the QBs are on the same level in many areas.

But if we're doing the either/or thing:

Footwork:Luck.

Luck has far more experience in rhythm drop back passing but rhythm drop back footwork is a function of coaching and experience. For me in the 'big picture' coachable traits are less important then innate physical traits

Poise: Griff.

Luck has good poise but he's been exceptionally well protected there are very few teams that can provide the kind of protection he received at Stanford.

Griff on the other hand displays his poise behind a poor OL.

Throwing motion: Draw. Neither are perfect like Newton or Locker but both can get the ball up and out quickly.

Accuracy:Griff, you cannot discount his downfield accuracy.

Throwing on time:Push. Both show good timing in their respective offenses.

Making reads: Luck (honestly we don't even know how well Griffin goes through reads; he rarely goes beyond a 2nd read and doesn't do reads while dropping back because he always plays from the gun)

Making reads:Push

Of course we know how well Griff goes through reads/progressions.

We have no vantage to claim he does or doesn't go beyond a 2nd 'read'

But, we can agree that efficiency is not possible without making good decisions.

I agree that he seldom took drops from under center therefore playing in a rhythm drop back passing game will be a transition for him and an area where Luck and the other 'pro-style' QBs will have an edge.

Making good decisions is based reading the field, following progression and delivering the ball to the right receiver.

[darrelgreenie]

I think your confusing my view of the situation here vs my view of the QBs skillset.

Imo every team isn't equiped to support every QB.

Here's something I haven't seen anyone address. In terms of skill-set as a passer, intelligence to learn the scheme, etc., I really don't see anything that Barkley can do, that Griffin can't do better or just as well.

I agree.

But the intelligence to learn the scheme is different from already having a working knowledge of rhythm dropback passing that is especially essential for Kyle's offense.

That is the huge advantage that 'pro-style' QBs have in this offense over non-pro-style.

So my question, for those who feel that Barkley fits "Kyle's system" better (not that I agree on that point)--why would you purposely take the one that's closer to the immobile side of the scale, like Schaub, when you can have the guy who's got it all, AND is an equally talented passer, if not more talented?

You really know how to ask a loaded question.(Schaub has enough mobility to execute Houston's/Kyle's offense at a high level and I think Barkley is more mobile then Schaub)

But, if feel like we've been over this before.

I'm not sure about the other 'people' you're talking about but for me I've always maintained Griff imo is the top QB prospect in this draft class and that Griff fits the system.

How eva my point has always been very specific: The emphasis of this offense is based on a skillset that Griffin would have to be taught i.e. rhythm drop back passing or RDBP.

RDBP has play concepts and progressions and reads that non pro-style QBs would have to learn.

The QBs that already have a base of understanding of RDBP concepts will enter training camp better able to 'speak' the language of Kyle's offense.

Which means less worry about the ability of the staff to teach and the QB to pick-up the basics.

He's the best of both worlds (well, I guess he would be if he was Cam Newton's size, but oh well), so why couldn't you see Kyle and Mike agreeing on him, rather than "settling" for Barkley, just because he compares to Schaub, who is a limited player in comparison to RGIII's potential as well?

My reason has nothing to do with Schaub.

And I don't think Kyle would have wanted nor have had equal success with Cam as Chudzinski is having.

[Darth Tater]

Do people realize that, with the exception of bubble screens, every pass in the spread offense REQUIRES a minimum of three reads?

[BigRedskinDaddy]

Who do most of you guys like in the second-tier of available QBs? Let's assume we beat Minnesota and end a little out of the top-10 or so and that Shanahan isn't planning on using an entire draft on a QB via an Atlanta-ian trade...who is the best of the rest after Luck, Griffin, and Barkley? It's very possible we'll take an impact player at another position in the first round and draft QB in the second round.

TD, I'm not sure who you consider "second tier" but I think there are many more than just the Big 5 or 6 QB's coming out in next year's draft. Kellen Moore, Nick Foles, Landry Jones and Tyler Wilson are all potential 1st rounders if and when the latter three redshirt juniors decide to declare. IMO they all, with the possible exception of Moore, have ideal size and arm strength. What is not so easy to measure is how well the systems they played with in college have prepared them for the pro style. As a group they all have very good mechanics, and seem to be students of the game who will be willing to put in the hours outside of practice to be as prepared as they can be.

My opinion is a lot of conjecture, of course. I'm basing it on what I've seen in games and read in articles. All or none of them could be superstars or busts - I think they all have huge potential with the skillsets they possess. In closing let me once again beat this dead horse I'm trying to whip up and mention the one guy nobody in this or any other thread wants to talk about: Russell the Love Muscle Wilson from Wisconsin. This will be ignored as were the other posts, but that's okay. Chances are it won't happen, but 3 or 4 years from now if he turns into a budding gunslinger a la Mr. Brees, I might just be the only guy here who can say "I told you so."

-but I would never do that. I couldn't because I love...

Off-topic, but every time I see your sig about the dominance of the '91 Skins I get goosebumps. I love that blurb.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

BRD, I have to imagine that we could finish 7-9 and still be in position to draft one of the top 6 QBs. There are plenty of teams that will use their pick on other positions. I do agree that I wouldn't trust Moore, I'm not sure if that's fair. I'm not advocating avoiding QB in round one...simply saying that all hope isn't lost if we don't get Griffin.

Oh, and I love that quote too! That season won't ever be matched in my view of sports. We could go 19-0 next year, but there's just something magical about a winning football team when you're still a kid and can follow these guys with stars in your eyes.

[Jumbo]

NLC---will you check and see if your PMs are on?

[HigSkin]

I'm not saying I'm advocating for this but very intriguing information.

http://www.ramsgab.com/2011/12/08/rams-could-trade-sam-bradford-draft-matt-barkley/

Rams Could Trade Sam Bradford, Draft Matt Barkley?

NFL analyst Hub Arkush, on The Boers and Bernstein Show (Chicago’s 670 The Score), said Wednesday that he has heard that the Rams could be interested in drafting USC phenom QB Matt Barkley in the first round and trading Sam Bradford.

This is only a rumor, but it would be an interesting, cost-effective way to get a quarterback that maybe Devaney and McDaniels feel better suits their system and get an extra player, pick or both in the process.

The teams that might be interested include the Browns and Redskins as their GM’s – Tom Heckert and Bruce Allen – were both high on Bradford coming out of college.

Don’t forget the Browns have a collage of picks from the Julio Jones trade with the Falcons in last year’s draft.

Barkley has not declared for the draft yet, yet he comes from the same conference where three QB’s did no help to their draft stock by playing as seniors: Jake Locker, Matt Leinart and Andrew Luck.

[TheGreek1973]

no matter who we pick in the first round (if we pick a QB) I would love for us to get Kellen Moore if he is there in the 4th round.

http://nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=71028&draftyear=2012&genpos=QB

We can let this kid learn the game for a couple of years and I just have the feeling he can be something special.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Moore would be a wasted pick. Especially as early as the 4th. Did you not see the round projection in your link? It says 7th. Maybe then you take a flyer on him. I personally wouldn't, but hey, it's only a 7th. I just have little use for a 5'11 185lb guy with a noodle arm and limited mobility.

[TheGreek1973]

Moore would be a wasted pick. Especially as early as the 4th. Did you not see the round projection in your link? It says 7th. Maybe then you take a flyer on him. I personally wouldn't, but hey, it's only a 7th. I just have little use for a 5'11 185lb guy with a noodle arm and limited mobility.

maybe, but again he seems to be a student of the game, works hard etc. and there is no argument he was very successful in college. I just love those over achievers that get the job done no matter what the "experts" say. I am old enough to remember when we picked DGreen in the first round and how the "experts" were snickering about it.

[Missouri_Skins_Fan]

I'm not saying I'm advocating for this but very intriguing information.

http://www.ramsgab.com/2011/12/08/rams-could-trade-sam-bradford-draft-matt-barkley/

Rams Could Trade Sam Bradford, Draft Matt Barkley?

NFL analyst Hub Arkush, on The Boers and Bernstein Show (Chicago’s 670 The Score), said Wednesday that he has heard that the Rams could be interested in drafting USC phenom QB Matt Barkley in the first round and trading Sam Bradford.

This is only a rumor, but it would be an interesting, cost-effective way to get a quarterback that maybe Devaney and McDaniels feel better suits their system and get an extra player, pick or both in the process.

The teams that might be interested include the Browns and Redskins as their GM’s – Tom Heckert and Bruce Allen – were both high on Bradford coming out of college.

Don’t forget the Browns have a collage of picks from the Julio Jones trade with the Falcons in last year’s draft.

Barkley has not declared for the draft yet, yet he comes from the same conference where three QB’s did no help to their draft stock by playing as seniors: Jake Locker, Matt Leinart and Andrew Luck.

I'm probably in the minority on this....but I would LOVE Sam Bradford on this team. The Rams are beyond suckage and he looked awesome last year. He's been a little banged up this year and they changed Offensive Coordinators,to boot. Couldn't have helped them.....

I still believe he can be a stud...

If the rams want to make a Play for the BIG 3,I would definitely be interested in Sam Bradford.

He would be a nice consolation prize,if we couldn't land the Big 3.

We could probably get him,for a reasonable price as well.

I would offer our 2nd rd pick (2012)

and our 2nd rd pick in 2013 and see what they say?

Rams take Luck,RGlll or Barkley....

We pick somewhere around 6-12

We can stay put and hope a (Link to quotes: http://walterfootball.com/draft2012CB.php

Justin Blackmon*, WR, Oklahoma State falls to us or

Alshon Jeffery*, WR, South Carolina

With Adam Carriker a free agent,we could look at

Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina

Height: 6-6. Weight: 285.

Projected 40 Time: 4.71.

Projected Round (2012): Top 10 Pick.

Maybe have him,put on a little weight for the 3-4 DE for us.

Or...

maybe we take a shot at

Morris Claiborne*, CB, LSU

Height: 6-0. Weight: 188.

Projected 40 Time: 4.40.

Projected Round (2012): Top 10.

Or...maybe we trade down in the 1st and recoup the 2nd rounder in 2012 we trade for Bradford?

Maybe land somewhere like last year, at #16?

We could be in position for a ILB Vontaze Burfict or

Dre Kirkpatrick*, CB, Alabama

Height: 6-3. Weight: 190.

Projected 40 Time: 4.46.

Projected Round (2012): Top 20 Pick.

Lots of stuff we can do guys...

We will get our QB...don't worry man.

Either by Draft or Bradford or whomever....

It's gonna be OK!

[Conn]

maybe, but again he seems to be a student of the game, works hard etc. and there is no argument he was very successful in college. I just love those over achievers that get the job done no matter what the "experts" say. I am old enough to remember when we picked DGreen in the first round and how the "experts" were snickering about it.

An undersized (but not really) CB with world-class speed is very different from a legitimately undersized QB with a pop-gun arm.