Short Reasons for Why this GOP Registered Voter Will (likely) Vote for Obama

[zoony]

8) GOP nominees are dimwitted hacks

And the dimwitted gop base sees nothing wrong with it. My how conservatism has fallen. Ignorance is to be applauded.

[Fergasun]

My ideal President would be competent, non-partisan, and honest. Unfortunately, we don't get that with the way the American primary system is set up. I want someone who is going to take the "right-wing" policies that work, and enact them and the "left-wing" policies and enact them. There is a laundry list of things that Obama has done (and his Congress did) that I disagree with. However, I have an equally long, if not longer laundry list of things the GOP has done.

The only branch of the government that has my respect is the Article III Courts... for the reason that they actually explain what they are doing and why. It would be great if we got 90+ pages of coherent, logical explanation for what Congress does, the same way judges have to deliver when they hand down decisions. Instead, we get partisan-hackmanship to the nth degree. I think we need to locally revamp the election system; such that when someone is running for office they sit in front of a group of citizens and answer questions, the same way Congress grills (or pretends to grill) witnesses during Congressional hearings. I actually enjoy Congressional hearings, nearly as much as judicial arguments in our government, for the simple fact that viewpoints get challenged.... although half the time those are even partisan-show-plays and the Congressmen are more interested in getting their talking points through than actually talking to the witnesses.

As far as liberty is concerned, I would like to see less of the Federal Government pre-empting local laws. However, for all of their rhetoric about big-government, the GOP doesn't do this (I guess it's because bribing 435+100 Congressmen is easier than bribing 50 sets of state legislators). I would like to see immigration reform, yet the GOP Congress hasn't tackled this at all (for all of their rhetoric). They've spent all this time going on and on about Federal spending, being completely dishonest about it. They look like unimaginative hacks. The House could've easily passed all of the Simpson-Bowles Commission recommendations, and challenged Obama and the Senate to pass them. But, they didn't... they took the parts favorable to the GOP and put them piecemeal into other legislation, and then threw away the parts that did things like leave Obamacare intact. Right now the GOP leadership is horrible. They pretend to have all this power, and every argument they make against the Democratic Senate, it can be thrown right into their faces (for instance, there is no point in the Senate at passing a budget because the House will simply reject it).

The problem I have is that its almost to the point where you can't be a non-political-hack and have a job in our government. It was like that for Bush, and looking that way for Obama (does anyone remember when Judd Gregg was going to be Secretary of Commerce? I thought that would've been a great move, but he pulled out due to partisan pressure, and landed a job lobbying for Goldman Sachs... weak-sauce Mr. Gregg!). If voters look at it, all the GOP is offering is failed policies disguised as "the new hope and change".

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Great post Ferguson. And pretty accurately describes why, as I get older and grow a bit more conservative, I don't see anyway I could ever support the GOP. And honestly, at this point, I can't imagine any plausible scenario where that would change. If I'm anything politically it's anti-bull****, and they're the unrivaled kings of bull****.

[luckydevil]

I wish Obama was a radical. The problem with Obama is he is the quintessential establishment politician. He is institutionally conservative . I wish he was a radical lefty, we could use some radical lefty prescriptions right now.

[chipwhich]

The problem I have is that its almost to the point where you can't be a non-political-hack and have a job in our government.

Maybe since you aren't in the DC/MD/VA are you are clueless. Do you know who has government jobs

But are you ****ing kidding me?????

Please tell me the public isn't this clueless

This must be a Jerry McGuire film less reality.

[Baculus]

Interesting thread, Ferguson. I've enjoyed reading the various replies from you and others thus far.

---------- Post added September-30th-2011 at 05:59 AM ----------

And the dimwitted gop base sees nothing wrong with it. My how conservatism has fallen. Ignorance is to be applauded.

That's the sad truth, isn't it? :-(

[Chicken Fried]

Being registered in the GOP doesn't mean much...

[mossomo]

Why this GOP Registered Voter Will (likely) Vote for Obama

You Registered but you're not GOP.

1) Tax Cut's Don't help the Economy.

Is Obama a liar?

I remember hearing things about a takeover of 1/6th of the US economy.

The U.S. fell in Heritage’s rankings for the second year in a row, dropping to nine out of 179 countries and placing the U.S. in the “mostly free” economies category, rather than “freest” economies category.

3)On the one hand, the GOP wants to act like they are saving the country and it's a moral imperative; on the other hand they still manage to strike a deal and avoid a government shutdown. If the debt limit was such a problem they would've dealth with the solution when in power.

Exactly why there's Tax Enough Already

4) Companies are not Over-burdened with Regulation***. If this were true it would have been a priority during the Bush administration.

T.E.A.

***Hong Kong unemployment is 3.5%. Singapore is about 2.5%. One of those unemployement reason's is regulation related, which directly contributes to Solyndra's failure at cost competitive advantage.

5) Democrats Aren't Much Different in Foreign Policy

Kucinich Sues Obama For Violating War Powers Act In Libya.

7) The GOP Claims Obama is ... Fundamentally Changing the Country are Total BS

• First President to Preside Over a Cut to the Credit Rating of the United States Government

• First President to Violate the War Powers Act

• First President to Orchestrate the Sale of Murder Weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels

• First President to be Held in Contempt of Court for Illegally Obstructing Oil Drilling in the Gulf of Mexico

• First President to Defy a Federal Judge's Court Order to Cease Implementing the 'Health Care Reform' Law

• First President to Require All Americans to Purchase a Product From a Third Party

• First President to Spend a Trillion Dollars on 'Shovel-Ready' Jobs -- and Later Admit There Was No Such Thing as Shovel-Ready Jobs

• First President to Abrogate Bankruptcy Law to Turn Over Control of Companies to His Union Supporters

• First President to Bypass Congress and Implement the DREAM Act Through Executive Fiat

• First President to Threaten Insurance Companies After They Publicly Spoke out on How Obamacare Helped Cause their Rate Increases

• First President to Threaten an Auto Company (Ford) After It Publicly Mocked Bailouts of GM and Chrysler

• First President to "Order a Secret Amnesty Program that Stopped the Deportations of Illegal Immigrants Across the U.S., Including Those With Criminal Convictions"

• First President to Demand a Company Hand Over $20 Billion to One of His Political Appointees

• First President to Terminate America's Ability to Put a Man into Space.

• First President to Encourage Racial Discrimination and Intimidation at Polling Places

• First President to Have a Law Signed By an 'Auto-pen' Without Being "Present"

• First President to Arbitrarily Declare an Existing Law Unconstitutional and Refuse to Enforce It

• First President to Tell a Major Manufacturing Company In Which State They Are Allowed to Locate a Factory

• First President to refuse to comply with a House Oversight Committee subpoena.

• First President to File Lawsuits Against the States He Swore an Oath to Protect (AZ, WI, OH, IN, etc.)

• First President to Withdraw an Existing Coal Permit That Had Been Properly Issued Years Ago

• First President to Fire an Inspector General of Americorps for Catching One of His Friends in a Corruption Case

• First President to Propose an Executive Order Demanding Companies Disclose Their Political Contributions to Bid on Government Contracts

• First President to allow Mexican police to conduct law enforcement activities on American soil

[Fergasun]

Maybe since you aren't in the DC/MD/VA are you are clueless. Do you know who has government jobs

But are you ****ing kidding me?????

Please tell me the public isn't this clueless

This must be a Jerry McGuire film less reality.

I'm not talking about regular GS workers. I'm talking about the people up high who set policy. Were there D's in Bush's administration? Are there R's in Obama's administration?

---------- Post added September-30th-2011 at 12:42 AM ----------

If "GOP" means "brainwashed to believe everything the GOP does is right and everything Democrats/liberals/spawns of satan does is wrong" are, than yeah; I'm not GOP. I think I align more with GOP naturally; however the GOP has gone way right. Furthermore their not really doing anything other than running against Obama, when there are tons of bills they could be passing in the House to show the types of policy they want to enact. Well, we're going to get the Ryan budget, destruction of Dodd-Frank, bills that give oil companies profits, and another bill that confuses me but essentially allows Congress to repeal Executive Branch regulation (which is a power they always have anyways).

So what do I want to see? I want to see their plan for immigration; I want to see their plan for giving more powers to the States (not just repeal the 10th amendment or whatever, that's a BS go-nowhere solution like the balanced budget amendment). I want to see them denounce Federal pre-emption (oh, except Federal pre-emption acts to protect corporations). I want them to truthfully talk about how our national debt is on track to get to around $20T and that is where the line in the sand should be drawn (rather than don't raise the debt ceiling period).

I don't want to hear the GOP talk about sharia law in America, or block the repeal of DADT, or talk about stopping the Libyan conflict (which is a fraction of the cost of the Iraq conflict). I want to see them be tough on banks and talk about how to actually solve the financial crisis we are still in. I guess evil government can't do anything radical about Wall Street except hand over a blank check.

[Burgold]

It's sad how few people actually debated any of Ferg's points. I think one person tried.

Good OP... posters failed in their follow through to address the reasons for your disillusionment. I wholeheartedly agree with several of your points like taxcuts do not equal nirvana and the debt debate has become almost completely about political gamesmanship. Finally, the hyper-hyperbolic wailing of the GOP and endless demonization just can't be good and can't lead us anywhere constructive.

[mjah]

First President to...

You forgot one:

First President to appear on a list of often hilariously specific "firsts" compiled by some rando who clearly is not impartial.

Just kidding... Obama isn't the first to do that, either.

[PeterMP]

***Hong Kong unemployment is 3.5%. Singapore is about 2.5%. One of those unemployement reason's is regulation related, which directly contributes to Solyndra's failure at cost competitive advantage.

The 50 percentile salary in Hong Kong is $7.64/hour (in US dollars). The median US salary is $16.27/hour (the mean is $21.35). Now, is that partly the result of different regulations, sure, but I think that is the primary driver of differences between US competition with places like Hong Kong and Singapore, rather than your normal Republican talking points regulations.

http://coinmill.com/HKD_USD.html#HKD=59.5

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000

http://www.censtatd.gov.hk/products_and_services/products/individual_statistical_tables/labour/index_cd_D5250012E_dt_detail.jsp

Now, if a Republican candidate wants to get up and tell Americans that the problem with the US economy is that the vast majority of us our living beyond our means and being way over paid based on our real productivity, I think that would actually be a really interesting thing to do and would probably generate some real useful conversations.

I don't really plan on that happening though.

[88Comrade2000]

I still don't know why you are still registered as a GOP. Just like the Democratic party, the extreme elements dictate things.

You aren't going to get what you ask because no politician of either party in their right minds will tell you the truth.

Despite him being a blowhard and having his head handed to him with the birth certificate fiasco; Trump was willing to tell it like it is.

It's time for you to free yourself of the shackles of being a GOPer. Just like former Dems like Ronald Reagan said they didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left them. The modern GOP as being controlled by the right wingers and tea partiers has left you. The GOP you wish for no longer exists and it's time for you to just leave it. Voting for Obama is fine if that's what you chose; but I feel you shouldn't be a Republican.

There needs to be a conservative- GOP split. The so called conservatives of today are trying to take over the Republican Party since they don't have the balls to run as a third party because despite all their rhetoric; this country isn't a dominant conservative country. If it was, Conservatives would be running everything now and their policies in force. The Best thing to happen in 2012: Obama drops out and Hillary Clinton wins the presidency. The Republicans instead of winning control of the Senate, don't. The Republicans also lose seats if not outright lose the House to the point where in 2014 the Democrats will take over. The shock of losing the PResidential election will cause the permanent split in the Republican Party. The Republican party will become a small party and go back to pre- Reagan form. The conservatives would have formed a new party and probably be the second party. This could happen with Obama not dropping out & winning reelection also. I am convinced more than ever the Republicans don't deserve to win the White House in 2012. Perfect time for an independent or third party candidate to rise. It's won't happen but the timing is ripe for one. What needs to start happening starting in 2012 is that voters vote for people other than democrats and republicans.

This mess isn't going to get straighten out the next 5 years. Things are going to get real bad before the idiots wake up.

[Predicto]

Mossamo's "list" was one of the funniest things I have ever read. Unintentional comedy at its finest. :applause:

[USS Redskins]

It seems a large portion of your problem with the GOP is that they are trying to convince people that a Democratic President is doing a bad job.

Wow - call the papers!

Its only been going on for well over 200 years now in this country.

[Baculus]

Is Obama a liar?

Supply-side and trickle-down economics have not been very successful, except for the top margin. Otherwise, the wages of workers and their income value has stagnated.

The U.S. fell in Heritage’s rankings for the second year in a row, dropping to nine out of 179 countries and placing the U.S. in the “mostly free” economies category, rather than “freest” economies category.

Exactly why there's Tax Enough Already

No, there is T.E.A. party movement because of a tirade against the "losers" who were benefiting from the Obama administration's mortgage assistance program. Oh, and all the pissed off Republicans who were angry that their party lost the presidency. That's why the modern tea party movement started. Otherwise, taxes are low (Obama dropped taxes on many of the people who are angry about supposed "higher taxes"), and for the top earners, the lowest they have been in decades, so we shouldn't probably avoid rubbishy talking points (such as the below big list you threw out).

Ignorance rules the day for many in that movement.

First President to . . .

Moss, your chain letter list of dubious claims probably won't be widely read, except by fellow right wingers.

[mossomo]

The 50 percentile salary in Hong Kong is $7.64/hour (in US dollars). The median US salary is $16.27/hour (the mean is $21.35).

The price of rice in china is equated with a different living standard. You can buy street food for $2-3 dollars a meal, just like in baja mx.

Now, if a Republican candidate wants to get up and tell Americans that the problem with the US economy is that the vast majority of us our living beyond our means and being way over paid based on our real productivity

No one said that. The point is that with central planning and pegging labor to a certain measure prevents people who want to be employed from being employed. THAT IS FACT.

---------- Post added October-3rd-2011 at 10:35 PM ----------

That's why the modern tea party movement started

No. You forget about the Dept of Education under Reagan, then Bush's No Child Left Behind, the ever exanding bureaucracies, fiats and czars. The Tea Party is an out-cry against our ever exanding gov't. We are going BANCRUPT. Parts of Europe are bancrupt and it's not their military commitment. It is government expansion, regulations, planning, and spending that is the problem. We don't need to feel gov't, we just need to live free and we all need to abide by the same rules. That is why the Tea Party Started.

---------- Post added October-3rd-2011 at 10:54 PM ----------

Moss, your chain letter list of dubious claims probably won't be widely read, except by fellow right wingers.

• First President to Preside Over a Cut to the Credit Rating of the United States Government

• First President to Violate the War Powers Act

• First President to Orchestrate the Sale of Murder Weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels

Which one do you care to defend?

Anyone???

[Mursilis]

All that being said, both parties are at the core corrupted (otherwise, why do companies continue to shell out $$$ for lobbyists) and put on a friendly outer shell.

Very true. So why do you still choose one of thier candidates?

The moment a viable 3rd party candidate (capable of getting 20-30% of the vote) shows up, I am most likely getting on that bandwagon (unless it's a partisan wrapped up in a third-party blanket).

So you're just part of the sheeple herd? A 3rd party candidate will never have a shot if everyone espouses that same herd mentality. Who cares if a 3rd party candidate is "viable"? Vote for him/her anyway! Send a message to the Big 2! Everyone complains about the GOP/Dem monopoly on power, but then refuses to be part of the solution. Voters are so $%@#$ stupid - they whine about the current system, and then vote to keep it in place!

[mistertim]

Which one do you care to defend?

Anyone???

I'll defend you, mossomo! Lay off him, guys. He hasn't taken his meds recently.

[DeaconTheVillain]

• First President to Preside Over a Cut to the Credit Rating of the United States Government

• First President to Violate the War Powers Act

• First President to Orchestrate the Sale of Murder Weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels

Which one do you care to defend?

Anyone???

Not sure what you mean by the 2nd and 3rd, but the first is gone done as "The Tea Party Downgrade"

[PeterMP]

The price of rice in china is equated with a different living standard. You can buy street food for $2-3 dollars a meal, just like in baja mx.

No one said that. The point is that with central planning and pegging labor to a certain measure prevents people who want to be employed from being employed. THAT IS FACT.

Are you claiming that ability of Hong Kong/China to export good isn't tied to the low income that people make and that doesn't affect their employment rate?

That it isn't easier to export goods when you are playing your workers $8/hour as compared to $20/hour?

Are you claiming that the average American family would be able to buy as much junk as Wal-Mart as they do if they were making less money?

That if Americans bought less junk that umemployment rates in Asia, including Hong Kong wouldn't go up?

• First President to Preside Over a Cut to the Credit Rating of the United States Government

• First President to Violate the War Powers Act

• First President to Orchestrate the Sale of Murder Weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels

Which one do you care to defend?

Anyone???

He hasn't violated the War Powers Act. Some people that don't have the authority to conclude that he violated the War Powers Act claimed he has.

I'm not sure there has been a President yet that somebody hasn't claimed violated the War Powers Act (since it became law. Clearly, people that were President before it was the law weren't violating it).

Just as example:

http://www.themoderntribune.com/no_imminent_threat_-_bush_violating_the_war_powers_act.htm

(Though, I'm not a big fan of what how he did what he did in Libya, generally. I think he should have gone to Congress.)

[Wrong Direction]

1) Tax Cut's Don't help the Economy.

Yet, 10 years later, these tax cuts have done nothing but quicken wealth distribution issues in this country, resulted in a higher deficit (which the GOP complain about as well) and I don't think they are effective.

1. Tax cuts do have a stimulative effect. The unemployment rate during Bush diminished coincident with his 2003 tax cuts. However, stimulus doesn't last forever.

2. They can have an effect on the deficit, agreed. Moreso, I have an issue with our tax system and support simplification efforts.

3. Wealth distribution statistics are what they are, but people need to understand that they're comparing two different things. It's comparing wages of American corporate CEOs to what has become a global labor force. You can only go one place to run an American corporation. You can get any able-bodied person in the world to manufacture a widget. The differentials are due to basic competitive disadvantages of the American labor force, not necessarily tax policy. Now, it MAY be true that a tax policy more favorable to US corporations could result in importing jobs. Still, that would have a small effect on average wages, maybe even a negative effect. The reason is that unskilled labor isn't and shouldn't be expensive. If people want to make more, they need to enter a market for skilled labor or a market that India and China can't compete in.

2) Health Care Law is Not Evil

I remember hearing things about a takeover of 1/6th of the US economy. As the law is getting implemented, I don't see the negative impact that has been predicted. Furthermore, the health care/insurance industry is a huge tax on our economy. Ignoring the fact that health care costs have increased astronomically over the past 5 years is not going to solve the problem. I haven't seen any decent GOP solutions.

Hitler was evil. The health care law, while not evil, has a major flaw. That flaw is the fact that the government will decide what should and shouldn't be covered, in perpetuity. And it's not JUST a federal government, it's 50 state governments, DC and territories, any partnerships they make that have to run through the federal government before they're implemented, and need to be tracked by all participating insurance companies to make sure they're compliant with all of the rules. And that doesn't just mean what is covered, it includes levels for deductibles, copayments, provider networks, same drugs in therapeutic classes, etc. And good luck mandating to a small business owner making $60,000 that he has to buy into one of these plans.

It's unfortunate that Obama limited his options to old big government models (single payer, RomneyCare). If, instead, the government decided to allow something like group health advocates (think association health plans, but not limited to associations, per se), you'd have a group that expressly exists to provide a service to their members, negotiating insurance contracts on their members' behalf, without rules on state lines, all of the approvals associated with various levels of government, and limitations on benefit packages. The federal mandates would be limited to the financial viability of the insurance company and rules to make sure people with pre-existing conditions have coverage, audits...and perhaps a couple of others. Then, the government would just use risk adjustment models (e.g., pay the insurance company x dollars for a person with diabetes).

In a free market like this, people would be protected by their own advocates, without a government one-size-fits-all paradigm, the politicians would not be involved in pricing or protections for special interests like drug companies, plans designed specifically for certain groups with distinct health profiles (e.g., black males, women or condition-specific) could be developed. In other words, the insurance companies would be incented to cover people based on their needs, not based on the needs of state and federal politicians.

The status quo sucks. Everyone knows that. However, ObamaCare effects everyone, and it's crafted in a big-government centered manner. For 1/6th of the economy...it's a tragedy.

3) GOP's Claim's about Debt Limit Are Overblown

It's foolish for the GOP to die on the mountain for every single debt ceiling raise.

Politicians will always whine when a genuine conservative draws a line in the sand. If not now, when? And what do you expect from politicians when you expect them to cut spending at $20 T deficits? Personally, I'm thrilled some party finally decided to draw a line in the sand, even if it was for political purposes. There will never be an easy time to make cuts, and the longer we wait, the worse the problem will be.

4) Companies are not Over-burdened with Regulation

If this were true it would have been a priority during the Bush administration.

Just because it's easier for a minority party to point this stuff out doesn't mean it's wrong to point it out. Regulation is everywhere. We know that we have a president that is vastly expanding our regulatory system. At least the other side is proposing to reduce the burden. Obama promised too, but the grass roots of his party aren't for this. The grass roots of the R party are for this. In other words, with any R candidate, at least you have a chance. Also, with any R candidate, you're hoping he/she is better at this than Bush.

5) Democrats Aren't Much Different in Foreign Policy

Yup, Obama has pretty much kept in place Bush's foreign policy. Why do I have a problem with that? Considering that foreign policy is a major sphere for the President.

The President is flipping to more traditional American policies on Israel now, but that wasn't always the case. The flap around the 67 borders was not a traditional American position. It's difficult to know where R's would stand on Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya or the Arab Spring relative to this president. I would certainly hope that a R would have been much more vocal about the Syrian and Iranian uprisings. I'm guessing we'd have had a similar response in Libya and probably been more muted in Egypt. Israel, Syria and Iran are definitely areas where I'd hope for stronger American leadership.

6) Fundamentally I Don't Believe One Party Should Control all Branches of Government

We have the government we have today because one party effectively controlled both branches twice in the 1900's. During the Great Depression and during the 60's. Much of our long term debt is tied to roughly 10-12 years of Democrat control, and decades of divided government that has stopped this country from reducing the welfare state. It's true that general expansion has happened under both parties' control of the executive and legislative branches, but some correction (perhaps even to defense) is in order and the only way for that to happen is to either pull Democrats kicking and screaming (the current R leadership's position with respect to the debt ceiling) or to vote them out and do it with just Rs. The only other answer is massive tax increases.

7) The GOP Claims about Obama Being a Socialist and Fundamentally Changing the Country are Total BS

It's not just about what this President has accomplished, it's about what he wants to accomplish and what he hasn't yet compromised upon. To be fair, his story is still being told. However, if he fails to publicly support some specific form of a grand bargain when this debt ceiling issue comes to pass then he will have failed once again to take the reigns and actually lead. It's very easy to talk about tax loopholes that amount to nothing. It's altogether different to actually support cuts to part of your political base. Obama will realize that the country's very serious about debt or he will be voted out...or both.

All that being said, both parties are at the core corrupted (otherwise, why do companies continue to shell out $$$ for lobbyists) and put on a friendly outer shell. The moment a viable 3rd party candidate (capable of getting 20-30% of the vote) shows up, I am most likely getting on that bandwagon (unless it's a partisan wrapped up in a third-party blanket). I don't think Obama has been as bad as the GOP wants me to believe.

We know one thing for certain...with full control of the House and Senate, Obama didn't come close to solving our economic problems, either in the short run or the long run.

Viable 3rd party candidates are nearly impossible in a two party system. You need someone with a ton of cash on hand (e.g., Ross Perot) with a message that resonates with a substantial piece of both parties. Perot resonated more with R's, which split the vote for Clinton. Conservatives did this in Canada too and they got shellacked.

The only way I can see this happening in the foreseeable future is if the candidate is black or hispanic, so they can attract a substantial portion of the Democrat party. As it stands now, D's are happy with their handouts so they're going nowhere, and thus no 3rd party candidate is viable.

[sjinhan]

No. You forget about the Dept of Education under Reagan, then Bush's No Child Left Behind, the ever exanding bureaucracies, fiats and czars. The Tea Party is an out-cry against our ever exanding gov't. We are going BANCRUPT. Parts of Europe are bancrupt and it's not their military commitment. It is government expansion, regulations, planning, and spending that is the problem. We don't need to feel gov't, we just need to live free and we all need to abide by the same rules. That is why the Tea Party Started.

As you stated here. How is GOP the solution to down sizing of government hen GOP dis their share of expansion whenever they were in power?

[PeterMP]

It's comparing wages of American corporate CEOs to what has become a global labor force. You can only go one place to run an American corporation. You can get any able-bodied person in the world to manufacture a widget. The differentials are due to basic competitive disadvantages of the American labor force, not necessarily tax policy. Now, it MAY be true that a tax policy more favorable to US corporations could result in importing jobs. Still, that would have a small effect on average wages, maybe even a negative effect. The reason is that unskilled labor isn't and shouldn't be expensive. If people want to make more, they need to enter a market for skilled labor or a market that India and China can't compete in.

I'm sorry, but a lot of people in the world can be CEOs. The same relationship applies. Out sourcing is not normally done to a Chinese (or branch) in another country, but to another company operating in that country, which means another CEO too.

The fact of the matter is that CEO compensation in the US is growing fast as compared to several measures and not just worker pay. Even things like profits.

http://johnkemeny.com/blog/?p=370

http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/Issues/2008/May/ExecutivePayGrowthOutpacesRevenue.htm

[Baculus]

No. You forget about the Dept of Education under Reagan, then Bush's No Child Left Behind, the ever exanding bureaucracies, fiats and czars. The Tea Party is an out-cry against our ever exanding gov't.

Oh, yeah, AFTER the GOP, the party supported by most tea partiers, were in power for eight years and doubled the national debt. Color me skeptical . . .

Deny it all you want, but many tea partiers support the same-old, same old GOP party line we've heard for years. Yeah, small government blah, blah -- we know how they govern when they have party. Heck, many tea partiers support the same big DOD spending programs which accounts for much of our federal debt, as it is.

Why don't you actually go back and re-read what I posted?

And there have been "czars" for years, but "tea party" Republicans never previously cared before -- except when a black liberal wins office, then suddenly OMG CZARS!

Which, BTW, is another right wing talking point, so I guess your lack of originality continues.

We are going BANCRUPT.

Again. And the party which most tea party supporters back are a big part of the reason for it. Do you realize that 2/3 of our debt came under Republican presidents?

Parts of Europe are bancrupt and it's not their military commitment.

Actually many European countries, including social democrat ones, are doing better than the US. Their banking systems are more stable (and regulated), and their debt is much power percentage of their GDP. You really don't want to compare European nations to the US, because we're nearly a third-world nation in some categories in comparison. (When it comes to some things, such as economic justice, we DO rank among some third-world, tinpot nations.)

It is government expansion, regulations, planning, and spending that is the problem.

Sometimes it is. But to lay it completely at the feet of the government is inaccurate and disingenuous. You must be totally, completely unaware of the billions lost due to crony capitalism which involves PRIVATE companies. Do you know how many times the public trust has been violated by unscrupulous businesses? And you want us to completely trust them, especially without any sort of unaccountability outside of the "hidden hand of the market"?

That's a utopian libertarian paradise as unrealistic as a socialist paradise. As I said before, I believe we need SMART government that is as a big or as small as needed, or as required for the situation. We can't limit our thinking, because we constrain our options.

We don't need to feel gov't, we just need to live free and we all need to abide by the same rules. That is why the Tea Party Started.

But we DON'T abide by the same rules. That is the problem. Haven't you been pay attention to the whole debate over taxation? How many times have you heard of people in high office getting away with stuff which would jail you or me? What happened to the Rule of Law?

As I said in my original post, the reasons you cite are NOT the real reasons why the MODERN (as in the 2009) tea party movement started. Every tea partier is NOT libertarian, after all. You talk about living "free," but there are plenty of self-identified tea partiers who are just as authoritarian, especially when it comes to social laws, as any other right-wing Republican, who like to talk about "liberty and freedom" (Sean Hannity comes to mind), but they really don't support true liberty when it only comes down to it . . . except when it comes to the "liberty" of their bank account.

As I have said, color me skeptical.

• First President to Preside Over a Cut to the Credit Rating of the United States Government

• First President to Violate the War Powers Act

• First President to Orchestrate the Sale of Murder Weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels

Which one do you care to defend?

Anyone???

The first fact is true, but the GOP WANTED the US's credit rating to drop. Didn't you hear their excuses? Heck, you had people on Fox News saying it would be a GOOD thing. So please, hearing this criticism from a right winger is a bit rubbishy, because the folks on your side of the aisle were hoping the credit rating drop cut would take place, mostly to score political points, regardless of any subsequent consequences.

The War Powers "violation" is a questionable claim, because it's possible it has been violated in the past.

And, hello, Iran-Contra? Are you really that uneducated when it comes to this subject?! We have supplied right wing death squads for years in Central and South America, and now you and other right wingers are making noise about this ATF program?!

What a load of horse manure.

Why don't you Google a book called "Power Burns" before you presume to even to me about our involvement in drug cartels.