SkinsCrushCowboys Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 No matter who we have at kicker, the fans will hate him. Nick Novak was run out of town, and now is San Diego's full time kicker. Shaun Suisham was brought in to replace Novak, but was run out of town too, and now he is the Steelers full time kicker. Gano has hit from 59 yards, if we get rid of him, is there any doubt that he will develop into a stud elsewhere? Novak is a sideline wizzer (fact), Suisham cannot hit in the post season, Guano made one meaningless kick from 59 yards, but chokes on anything meaninful......let him go "develop" eslewhere....he has lost enough games for us, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I have no patience with kickers.This is what I demand of a kicker: Make 80 percent of your kicks overall. Make 90 to 95 percent of your kicks inside of 40 yards. Never miss an extra point. Kick a lot of touchbacks (New this year). I will give a kicker 10 to 12 games to get some data on them. If they aren't hitting all these goals' date=' I would find a new one. 4 out of 5 kickers in the league meet these goals. Ours does not. It drives me insane.[/quote'] OK, I can see this being a standard for kicking. Now, in the game, the XP and a FG were blocked; if the o-line is being pushed back far enough to get the kick blocked, how is it on Gano? This is what I'm not getting. The o-line has been pathetic, but showing flashes at times, but those blocks weren't on Gano, they were on the o-line; they failed to keep the rush from penetrating to block the kicks. And the size of that guy blocking them is stunning; the dude's a damn beast, and I can see how he'd be a problem in any backfield. Trust me; if they can Gano, it will be a huge mistake. He will be picked up in a flash, and have a great career, prob with a team that has a stout o-line. Just get him a decent o-line and a decent holder, and see how it changes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew_Fl Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I don't know what all this "develop" talk means for a kicker. It's not like they're learning how to read defenses. They just have to adjust for the hashes. I just looked up stats on several kickers. The great ones were great when they started, the good ones were good when they started, and the bad ones are just bad. If you want to talk about Gano "developing", I think he's developing in the wrong direction. His first year he was 4-4, then 24-35, then 17-26 this year. That's 100%, 68.6%, and 65.2%. Out of all the kickers I just looked up, I never saw one regress like him, yet he is our kicker. (Also, I never saw anyone with sub 70% accuracy two years in a row b/c they probably didn't have a job by then.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 OK, I can see this being a standard for kicking.Now, in the game, the XP and a FG were blocked; if the o-line is being pushed back far enough to get the kick blocked, how is it on Gano? This is what I'm not getting. The o-line has been pathetic, but showing flashes at times, but those blocks weren't on Gano, they were on the o-line; they failed to keep the rush from penetrating to block the kicks. And the size of that guy blocking them is stunning; the dude's a damn beast, and I can see how he'd be a problem in any backfield. Trust me; if they can Gano, it will be a huge mistake. He will be picked up in a flash, and have a great career, prob with a team that has a stout o-line. Just get him a decent o-line and a decent holder, and see how it changes... O line problems have nothing to do with kick blocking problems. They aren't the same technique. They aren't always the same players. They don't have the same coaches. There may be a blocking issue, but it I had a kicker who kept getting kicks blocked, I would start by looking at the kicker? Is he too slow? Does the ball come out too low? In my experience, both of these are more likely reasons than "O-line problems." ---------- Post added November-28th-2011 at 01:00 PM ---------- I guess I always kind of took the approach of ST being more of a personnel thing than coaching, quality depth means better ST. I will claim ignorance on not knowing Smith is the reason we held on to Gano, I thought it was more the GM & HC. My limited experience in this stuff is that GMs and head coaches (unless they have a ST background) know nothing about kickers, punters, holders, long snappers and gunners. The special teams coach usually is charge with filling those slots. I can't imagine a scenario where George Allen or Shanahan would tell Danny Smith "You are wrong on that long-snapper." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Actually, Grossman spent a lot of time on his back, and this is facing one of the worst pass rushing lines in the league. They did a solid job early on, but later Grossman was continually seeing pressure.As for Helu, his stats look better after that 28 yard run, which was mostly him being able to shake a couple of defenders. Without that run, he was rushing for a paltry 3.6 yards a carry. Did you know John Righins never topped 3.8 yards a carry over a season as a Redskin? Some would say 1983 was his best year - and the best Redskins offense I have seen just topping 91 for me - and Riggins averaged 3.6 per carry. He did have 24 TDs to be fair but still ...... If you can stick with the run and get 3.5 per carry you stay out of 3rd and long and you keep the chains moving. Then you break a longer one and as you say the numbers look pretty good. The line was decent yesterday, not great just decent. That's an improvement and it's at level which gives us chance to be productive on offense but I would certainly agree that we need upgrades on that line if we are to see the improvement we need on offense to be truly competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 No matter who we have at kicker, the fans will hate him. Nick Novak was run out of town, and now is San Diego's full time kicker. Shaun Suisham was brought in to replace Novak, but was run out of town too, and now he is the Steelers full time kicker. Gano has hit from 59 yards, if we get rid of him, is there any doubt that he will develop into a stud elsewhere? Novak will not be the full time kicker when Kaeding comes back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 No matter who we have at kicker, the fans will hate him. Nick Novak was run out of town, and now is San Diego's full time kicker. Shaun Suisham was brought in to replace Novak, but was run out of town too, and now he is the Steelers full time kicker. Gano has hit from 59 yards, if we get rid of him, is there any doubt that he will develop into a stud elsewhere?Your point is valid, but just to nitpick: Suisham stunk in Dallass too, before doing pretty well with Pitt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 "There may be a blocking issue, but it I had a kicker who kept getting kicks blocked, I would start by looking at the kicker?" Well, logic would normally dictate to line issues if it happened alot. On the blocks, the dlinemen were already in the backfield by the time the holder got the ball; thats not a Gano problem, thats a line problem. There's not a kicker alive who could have made any difference in kicking with those guys in the backfield; no arch is possibly high enough to overcome an arm towering over the top. You DO bring up 1 good point on the speed; I noticed him being a little slow off the snap, and that is a correctable problem. But we've seen so many kickers trying to kick a ball angled, with laces facing them, etc etc, but at that point its too late to do anything about it. Holders have as much a part in the entire process as the line and the kicker. I just don't buy into blaming Gano on their line shoving ours back where they have the opportunity to block the kick; even Mora, as goofy as he is, even acknowledged it wasn't the kicker's fault... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da#1skinsfan Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I never understood why people say..."take away this run or pass". The play happened. If you take away the 28 yarder, then take away the -3 yard run too. Only people trying to manipulate statistics to prove their point do that. Luckily in reality, each and every carry counts, and the definition of AVERAGE or MEAN is upheld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I'm surprised that people are still making excuses to defend Gano. His missed FG in the Cowboys game wasn't "BLOCKED." His kickoff out of bounds yesterday wasn't "BLOCKED." No one's holding "BLOCKED" kicks against Gano. The problem is with all of the other whiffed kicks that aren't "BLOCKED." For the second year in a row, Gano is going to finish at the bottom of the barrel in FG %. Even subtracting his "BLOCKED" kicks from this season puts him in the bottom of the league in FG % for this year. So please FO, get him out of here and pick up a proven kicker in FA. It really is one position that I don't mind being addressed in FA and age isn't a factor like it is with most other positions. Minus blocks:21-26 80.7% on FGs 17-17 100% on XP Based on your criteria for a kicker, he would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Minus blocks:21-26 80.7% on FGs 17-17 100% on XP Based on your criteria for a kicker, he would be good. You're giving him the 4 FGs that were blocked. I am subtracting those from his total attempts which would put him at 17 out of 22 which is 77.27%, still in the bottom quarter of the league. Don't you think it's better to remove the 4 blocks from the attempted category than to assume that he would have made them all or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Look at every team around the league and EVERYWHERE you'll see strange fellows that are not regular Olinemen such as TEs and DLmen blocking for FGs. Blaming the OL is laughable in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 probably feels like maybe he should get some damn lift on the ball as opposed to trying to boot everything low like he is kicking from 60 yards.. When you can explain how you can kick over guys right in front of you with their hands up after they have put the blockers on their asses let me know. I'd really like to know how he was supposed to make either of those kicks yesterday in your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggins77 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 When you can explain how you can kick over guys right in front of you with their hands up after they have put the blockers on their asses let me know. I'd really like to know how he was supposed to make either of those kicks yesterday in your mind. No ****, both of those would have been blocked even if he kicked the damn ball straight up lol. Our entire side of the right line collapsed, not once, but twice. It almost looked like they wanted to let them block the kicks. I've never seen anything like that in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 No ****, both of those would have been blocked even if he kicked the damn ball straight up lol. Our entire side of the right line collapsed, not once, but twice. It almost looked like they wanted to let them block the kicks. I've never seen anything like that in my life. lol, Chuck Norris couldn't even make that kick, EVEN with his superb Jedi mind trick he can play on the ball! I'd like to know how many kickers in the league have a strong enough leg to boot a 59 yd FG, MUCH LESS enough faith in a coach to let him try in the first place. Well, it could have been a case of "lets try anything", but he still made it; I doubt there are a handful of kickers who could. Look, with every other issue on the team right now, he's not the biggest fish in the tank, so lets not focus so much on him as other parts of the team; if he continues to regress next season, and early, then by all means go ahead and go after someone, but geez, its not like he's taking a wizz in the gatorade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 So what you guys are saying, pro- or anti- Gano, is: 1) onside kick every time; 2) go for it on 4th down; 3) go for 2 on PATs. You know, at this point in the season, why the hell not? What do we have to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 While you're at it, take a gander at the "quote from Mike today regarding the 2 blocked kicks; "On how much kicker Graham Gano was responsible for the blocked kicks: “It was nothing to do with the kicker. Nothing.” Game Set Match... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mi6 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Need to take a look at the college level to find the next Chip Lohmiller or Mark Mosely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issapunk Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 My theory on Gano is that he is a guy who can kick a football through the goal posts, but he is not an NFL kicker. He chokes on almost EVERY single clutch kick. Sure, he can nail a 59 yarder when it means nothing, but I would never feel comfortable with him kicking a 42 yarder in OT. The mental side of kicking in the NFL is as important as the ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkFan8 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 My theory on Gano is that he is a guy who can kick a football through the goal posts, but he is not an NFL kicker. He chokes on almost EVERY single clutch kick. Sure, he can nail a 59 yarder when it means nothing, but I would never feel comfortable with him kicking a 42 yarder in OT. The mental side of kicking in the NFL is as important as the ability.Other than the fact that he won 3 OT games last season with kicks, including a victory over the eventual Superbowl champions, I'd say you're dead on!I don't envy his position as a kicker. Hopefully the terrible blocking and constant long FGs attempts don't take a toll on psyche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issapunk Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Other than the fact that he won 3 OT games last season with kicks, including a victory over the eventual Superbowl champions, I'd say you're dead on!I don't envy his position as a kicker. Hopefully the terrible blocking and constant long FGs attempts don't take a toll on psyche. Guess I forgot about that, but people are remembered for their mistakes more. He has made plenty of them. The problem that I have with him is his inconsistency. He has proved he can kick it from a far distance, but still misses unforgivable kicks. I remember him missing at least 2 OT kicks at HOME. Texans last year and Cowboys this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 probably feels like maybe he should get some damn lift on the ball as opposed to trying to boot everything low like he is kicking from 60 yards.. i dont think we can put the blocks on him in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 No ****, both of those would have been blocked even if he kicked the damn ball straight up lol. Our entire side of the right line collapsed, not once, but twice. It almost looked like they wanted to let them block the kicks. I've never seen anything like that in my life. It was like watching the Longest Yard when the OL let the guards run through and murder Adam Sandler a entire series for faking a injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Novak also missed one in OT that would've won the game. They lost. He also took a pee on the sideline. Gano has never done something that cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Your point is valid, but just to nitpick: Suisham stunk in Dallass too, before doing pretty well with Pitt. Actually, he kind of stinks in Pittsburgh too. I fully expect him to cost them a playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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