MattFancy Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Ok, can someone explain what the NCAA "death penalty" is? I keep hearing everyone using the term but no one is saying what it means. The worst thing from the death penalty could be the school have to not play a season. ---------- Post added August-18th-2011 at 08:48 AM ---------- I heard that the Shapiro guy has proof that the Miami president accepted a $50,000 check. Not goodAnd Spartacus (or anyone): Do you think Golden had any inkling that this story was gonna break before he took the job? Surely he had to know who this Shapiro character was, and that there could be trouble down the road. I think he thought something could happen, but I don't think anyone would've guessed it would be this big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 The worst thing from the death penalty could be the school have to not play a season. Thing is that this cuts across several sports not just football, could the NCAA revoke Miami's membership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Good article on SI.com about college sports in general. This certain part caught my eye: This isn't like a restaurant complying with the health department or a construction company sticking to building codes. Those are safety issues. It's more like if I hired you as an airline pilot and I said "In addition to adhering to safety standards, you cannot accept any free golf lessons, drink bourbon or eat pistachios. If we catch you doing that, you're fired." I'm sure some people would avoid the free golf lessons, the bourbon and the pistachios, just because they didn't want to get fired. Others would surreptitiously grab an occasional pistachio, eat it quickly, then feel terribly guilty about breaking the rule. And some others would say "To hell with it" and wash down their pistachios with bourbon while taking their free golf lessons. But none of it would have anything to do with flying a plane. This is how many, many college athletes view the NCAA's amateurism rules. They might follow them. They might not. But they don't passionately believe in the rules. How could they? How could they possibly think the NCAA has their best interests at heart? This is an organization that requires players to not only miss one or two days of class for every week of the NCAA tournament, but also requires them to miss an additional day just for press conferences and open practices in front of fans. This benefits me professionally, but I would never in a million years argue that it is in the best interest of players. It's about marketing. Does the NCAA think players don't realize that? Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_rosenberg/08/17/miami/index.html#ixzz1VO2wgCCe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Ok, can someone explain what the NCAA "death penalty" is? I keep hearing everyone using the term but no one is saying what it means. It is an unofficial term, but they define it on the NCAA's website as follows: Death Penalty: The ‘death penalty’ is a phrase used by media to describe the most serious NCAA penalties possible. It is not a formal NCAA term. It applies only to repeat violators and can include eliminating the involved sport for at least one year, the elimination of athletics aid in that sport for two years and the school relinquishing its Association voting privileges for a four-year period. A school is a repeat violator if a second major violation occurs within five years of the start date of the penalty from the first case. The cases do not have to be in the same sport. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Good article on SI.com about college sports in general. This certain part caught my eye: Yep, the players realize that the NCAA and the schools are making millions off them; everything from jerseys to video games, they want a piece of the pie, and something has to give because it is only going to get worse IMO. ---------- Post added August-18th-2011 at 09:33 AM ---------- It is an unofficial term, but they define it on the NCAA's website as follows:Link Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Yep, the players realize that the NCAA and the schools are making millions off them; everything from jerseys to video games, they want a piece of the pie, and something has to give because it is only going to get worse IMO. I totally agree. The thing is that it doesn't bother the players because what's the worst that can happen? They miss a few games? Maybe miss a season? How did they effect Dez Bryant going to the NFL? What about AJ Green? Terrel Pryor may not get there this year, but he'll certainly be in the 2012 NFL Draft. And I'm not saying the NFL should do something, because I don't believe they should, but there is really no incentive for the players to follow all the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissance Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 You wanna fix the problem? Stop making so much ****ing money off these kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 You wanna fix the problem? Stop making so much ****ing money off these kids. And how do you do that? ---------- Post added August-18th-2011 at 09:50 AM ---------- I totally agree. The thing is that it doesn't bother the players because what's the worst that can happen? They miss a few games? Maybe miss a season? How did they effect Dez Bryant going to the NFL? What about AJ Green? Terrel Pryor may not get there this year, but he'll certainly be in the 2012 NFL Draft. And I'm not saying the NFL should do something, because I don't believe they should, but there is really no incentive for the players to follow all the rules. Exactly, if they get busted they go into the draft the next year, heck they know nothing will happen during their season and they'll most likely be with a pro-team before the school ever gets punished. Same with the coaches, they just jump to another team and leave the wreckage in their wake. Now I seriously do not want the boosters to make it rain on the players, but these kids aren't stupid they see the money they know what's at stake and they know how much the school need the revenue that the athletes bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 You wanna fix the problem? Stop making so much ****ing money off these kids. That's not gonna happen. Look at these huge TV contracts the schools and conferences are signing. Think about all the money those bowls make and how much goes back to the school. There's no way they'll stop making money off the players anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Good article on SI.com about college sports in general. This certain part caught my eye: Love the way you try to claim that being "hired" to compete in a sport isn't really about following the rules of that sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Thanks, ACWSo whats the deal with SMU nowadays? Are they really still suffering from that? Or do they just not care about football anymore? I still remember the quote from Eisenhower "an atheist is someone who watches a Notre Dame - SMU game and doesn't care who wins". not exactly relevant anymore SMU was insane. It got caught red-handed having a slush fund in which payers were paid directly. This was not "make a tackle/get a $100." This was a payroll that the Athletic Dept knew about. The NCAA came down on them and SMU made the fatal decision to continue payments to players who had been promised money because of some moral obligation. This is Texas after all. The NCAA found out and shut down the program. It was only suppposed to be a one-year shut down, but SMU extended it to 2, because they could not field a team one year after the suspension. Once the team came back, it was still banned from tv and the post-season and was still dealing with a severe scholarship reduction. Basically, the team was starting from ground zero. It had no players, could not offer scholarships, and could not entice anyone with the promise of tv or bowl games. They fielded a team in '89 and basically became a 1-9 level team for the next few years. At that point, the SWC died. So, now you have a terrible team with a terrible reputation and no conference affiliation. So, recruiting was easy, you know. "We stink, everyone will think you are a criminal, and we aren't in a conference. Want to play for us, son?" It finally found its way to Conference USA and slowly rebuilt itself to respectability. ---------- Post added August-18th-2011 at 09:28 AM ---------- Something I found interesting: I wanted to attend a 5-A Texas High School Football game this year. A friend of mine in Houston is an alum of a 5-A school and his kid is in the band. So, I went to a game. And the team turned out to have its greatest season ever. I ended up going to the playoff games around Houston...and the team kept winning. I did not go to the title game at Jerryworld in Dallas (which 60,000 attended by the way), but I watched it on tv. This friend and his wife ended up having the star running back live with them for two months at the end of the school year, because the kid's mom had to move away for a job and he wanted to graduate with his friends. During that time, he signed a letter of intent at WVU. The people he was living with know one person in the world with a West Virginia connection: me. So, I ended up talking to him a bit and have "friended" him on Facebook. Anyway, he's excited because he is now a "player" in NCAA '12 (at least his number is). I'm sure that's neat now, but think about how the NCAA is already making money off this dude and he has not attended a class yet. If he becomes a star, his jersey will be a top seller all over West Virginia. If he helps WVU win some BCS bowls, the school could end up in a better conference and make millions. And he may need my dad to drive him to the airport because he can't afford a car. I wonder if any economist has ever calculated Pat White's contribution to WVU's budget and - dare I say - WVU's overall economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I wonder if any economist has ever calculated Pat White's contribution to WVU's budget and - dare I say - WVU's overall economy. It would have to be done to show marginal impact... i.e. what Pat White's contribution was over and above what the impact would be if say, Doug Dougerson was starting QB for WVU. I bet it's minimal. As for High School football, read the front page of the USA Today this morning, the Top 25 poll for HS football is out. ESPN is showing HS football games. There was a feature story in the USAToday also this morning about a program in Delaware that is only 300 students- but actively recruits the best prospects from around the country for their football program, and has the entire thing set up like an NCAA top-tier program. I'm wondering how long until HS football is ruined with bowl games and bull****. It pretty much already has. And you know pop warner is next. laugh now- just like someone would have laughed their ass off in 1985 if you told them HS Football games would be nationally televised and programs would be nationally ranked, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I wonder if any economist has ever calculated Pat White's contribution to WVU's budget and - dare I say - WVU's overall economy. I still say no college football player ever had the impact on a town like Michael Vick did from 1999-2000. I'd dare say you are talking about 1 billion plus in investments, improved admission standards, increased donations, etc from the post Vick world into Blacksburg. A new freakin highway got built, the stadium expanded by 10k people, a new conference affiliation, donations through the roof and Virginia Tech no longer a "safety school" for a kid with a 3.4 GPA. Bruce Smith built condos near Lane Stadium that actually sell for 800k, in freakin Blacksburg VA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I still say no college football player ever had the impact on a town like Michael Vick did from 1999-2000.I'd dare say you are talking about 1 billion plus in investments, improved admission standards, increased donations, etc from the post Vick world into Blacksburg. A new freakin highway got built, the stadium expanded by 10k people, a new conference affiliation, donations through the roof and Virginia Tech no longer a "safety school" for a kid with a 3.4 GPA. Bruce Smith built condos near Lane Stadium that actually sell for 800k, in freakin Blacksburg VA and all of a sudden, everyone was a VT fan. Which is why I despise that program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 And you know pop warner is next. laugh now- just like someone would have laughed their ass off in 1985 if you told them HS Football games would be nationally televised and programs would be nationally ranked, etc. I blame my cousin's husband for that. He essentially promotes every single high school game that comes on ESPN and puts together made for TV matchups and was the guy that put all of Lebron's games on TV back in 2003. I am jealous of the cool lifestyle he lives, but he has managed to change the culture of high school sports ---------- Post added August-18th-2011 at 10:41 AM ---------- and all of a sudden, everyone was a VT fan. Which is why I despise that program. Hey, its almost the Alex Ovechkin effect in DC with the Caps. He singlehandidly doubled the franchise value of the Caps And you hate VT because of the Chik Fil A Bowl vs Tenn. Admit it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 While corruption is rampant in NCAA football, how do you go 10 years without doing anything to this guy or telling him to back off? Hey, this guy is giving players money and holding parties for them and he's awfully close to the program...let's not do anything about it. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCranon21 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Don't worry about the death penalty. It won't be used again. I was about to comment and say that. NCAA will not issue the death penalty to Miami. The sanctions will be damn near death penalty. It'll be worse what USC received. SMU is still recovering from that, and it happened 26 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 The penalties will be: - less scholarships - postseason ban Nothing more. No DP. Postseason bans and scholarship losses are detrimental enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus87 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 While corruption is rampant in NCAA football, how do you go 10 years without doing anything to this guy or telling him to back off? Hey, this guy is giving players money and holding parties for them and he's awfully close to the program...let's not do anything about it. Lol Randy Shannon tried. He told coaches and players that if he found out about them associating with Shapiro, they would be removed from the program completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Shapiro's not a Miami fan; if he was, he wouldn't've done all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 The penalties will be: - less scholarships - postseason ban Nothing more. No DP. Postseason bans and scholarship losses are detrimental enough. Ready for a shocker? If they keep handing out punishments like less scholarships and postseason bans then teams are going to keep cheating. Even if you strip the team of the trophy after the fact, everyone knows who the real champion is. I don't want Miami to get the death penalty... But, how do you stop teams with a hand slap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Teams have done a cost analysis and determined that it's worth cheating if the punishment if caught is loss of scholarships and a missed post season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Teams have done a cost analysis and determined that it's worth cheating if the punishment if caught is loss of scholarships and a missed post season. Is this sarcastic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Not at all. It's obvious that the "scandals" over the last decades have not stopped teams from cheating. The NCAA knows this and will need to up the punishment at some point to make it less attractive to cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Not at all.It's obvious that the "scandals" over the last decades have not stopped teams from cheating. The NCAA knows this and will need to up the punishment at some point to make it less attractive to cheat. Absolutely agree... Here's to them doing it to the next team and not Miami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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