China Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Entire U.S. Stealth Fighter Fleet Grounded In past few decades, the U.S. Air Force has spent untold billions researching and developing a family of stealth fighter jets that are supposed to be generations ahead of any dogfighters in the sky. But after building more than 170 F-22 Raptors and a handful of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters, not a single one is available for service. The Air Force currently has zero flyable stealth fighters. None. The vaunted F-22 has been grounded with a possible faulty oxygen system since May. Production of the last few Raptors is even on hold, because the jets can’t fly from the factory. Last week, test flights for the newer F-35 were suspended, too, because of a valve problem in the plane’s integrated power package. It’s the third time this year that JSFs have been grounded. Tests may resume as early as next week. Then again, they may not. Yesterday, the U.S. military committed to spending another $535 million to buy 38 more Joint Strike Fighters — a family of stealth jets that are supposed to become the multipurpose, affordable workhorses of tomorrow’s fleet. Ninety percent of America’s combat aviation power is eventually supposed to come from the jets’ three variants. But the jets have been anything but cheap. The current cost for the JSF program is $382 billion and rising for more than 2,400 aircraft. No wonder just about every major deficit reduction plan scales back the JSF effort in some way. Click on the link for the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I hope the procurement contracts included a clause requiring the contractors to pay whopping amounts to the US government in the event their products are grounded due to contractor oversight/negligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I hope the procurement contracts included a clause requiring the contractors to pay whopping amounts to the US government in the event their products are grounded due to contractor oversight/negligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 isn't this how the M1 Abrams started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 But the jets have been anything but cheap. The current cost for the JSF program is $382 billion and rising for more than 2,400 aircraft. good Lord. One plane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 isn't this how the M1 Abrams started? Yep. However, The F35 fantastic as it is will quickly become obsolete as the future of Combat Aviation should be UASs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destructis Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I hope the procurement contracts included a clause requiring the contractors to pay whopping amounts to the US government in the event their products are grounded due to contractor oversight/negligence. I don't disagree but that is a catch 22 thing. If they do that, then they will lay off a ton of people. I think when the government signs a contract for them, it should be at a fixed firm price rather than the cost over runs that we are paying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I don't disagree but that is a catch 22 thing. If they do that, then they will lay off a ton of people. I think when the government signs a contract for them, it should be at a fixed firm price rather than the cost over runs that we are paying for. When the govt keeps changing specs it also slows down the production and drives up the price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 One other thing to remember. Most of our most successful modern aircraft have gone through stages like this. It sucks, but when you are pushing the boundaries of what is possible, things are bound to go wrong. The good news is that the other guys go through the same thing. They just don't talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destructis Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 When the govt keeps changing specs it also slows down the production and drives up the price Very good point that I didn't think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Very good point that I didn't think about. Remember the circus that was the VH-71? http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/135929/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 So is this a big problem for the Military? Or just a glitch in the matrix and wont impact anything, and will be fixed sometime soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destructis Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I am confident it will be fixed. I love reading about military aircraft. Watch this video, it's just a badass aircraft and death from above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 So is this a big problem for the Military? Or just a glitch in the matrix and wont impact anything, and will be fixed sometime soon? It is inconvenient for my plan to bomb Iran,but we have a enough alt options to make do. Seriously, it has no real impact at the moment,though it is bad form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Somewhere in the last couple of days, there was a post about how GOOD military expenditures are. They didn't do things like "buy" systems that than essentially don't work at all. One more poster I don't have to worry about actually talking about anything that he actually knows anything about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Here's how government contacting works: The government usually gives the contact to the lowest bidder, so bidders generate proposals with unrealistic schedules and budgets. When the contractor tries to meet the unrealistic schedule, they cut corners and they hit major technical problems. Trying to fix these things costs more than if they would have just done it right in the first place. It never ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Yep. However, The F35 fantastic as it is will quickly become obsolete as the future of Combat Aviation should be UASs. Disagree. Unmanned aircraft will be an increasingly important factor, but there are only two ways for them to fight. Either you give them ability to be completely autonomous, or you control them remotely. Both can be overcome by a clever enemy, even if we combine the two and have remote control with a backup automated system in case the enemy manages to break up the link between the aircraft and the pilot on the ground. We'll always have a need for a large stable of advanced fighters flown by actual humans in an actual ****pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 good Lord. One plane That's about 160 million per plane, including development costs. No bad when you consider a private jet will run you about 60 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 No man I want some F302s and F303s man Gotta start stock piling to fight them Go'ald's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Disagree. Unmanned aircraft will be an increasingly important factor, but there are only two ways for them to fight. Either you give them ability to be completely autonomous, or you control them remotely. Both can be overcome by a clever enemy, even if we combine the two and have remote control with a backup automated system in case the enemy manages to break up the link between the aircraft and the pilot on the ground. We'll always have a need for a large stable of advanced fighters flown by actual humans in an actual ****pit. Disagree, the limitations and cost inherent in manned fighters will reduce them greatly. The bots are the future,just wait til the latest swarm intelligence comes online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 If defense acquisition was easy, and not full of risk, it wouldn't cost so much and we wouldn't have the advanced arm forces that we have. I don't know anything about this problem (these problems), but I'm confident the smart people working for the defense contractor will fix it; and the smart people overseeing the defense contractor will help them. No, I'm not kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Disagree, the limitations and cost inherent in manned fighters will reduce them greatly.The bots are the future,just wait til the latest swarm intelligence comes online A computer can't even drive a car, its not gonna be able to fly an aircraft in combat. Combat has way to many variables for AI to be practical. Unmanned aircraft can't learn. There is a reason why combat experience is so valuable. This is going to be just like we learned in the past, Air Power cannot win wars. You still have to take and hold ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'Em84 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 No man I want some F302s and F303s man Gotta start stock piling to fight them Go'ald's! Screw that, give me a gunstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Somewhere in the last couple of days, there was a post about how GOOD military expenditures are. They didn't do things like "buy" systems that than essentially don't work at all.One more poster I don't have to worry about actually talking about anything that he actually knows anything about. If your refering to me I stated that defense spending was the most efficient spending in the Federal Government and that was as scary as hell. This was to point out how grossly wasteful Government spending was. Pray tell how did you get that I stated spending was good from that? Feel free to not worry about me, but on this subject I certainly know what I'm talking about and likely know more than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.