www.sfexaminer.com: Donovan article, taking subtle shots at Coach Shanahan

[ThinkTwice]

In this article Donovan takes a subtle shot at Mike Shanahan and the offensive coordinator of the Vikings Bill Musgrave also takes a subtle shot saying you don't take a player of Donovan's caliber and try to make him fit your system you adapt your system to his strengths.

I agree with adapting systems and playing to a players strength. But does Musgrave know that Donovan was throwing the ball to the ground on a ten yard out. He will find out soon enough

[DieHard86]

All Donovan had to do was be coached as a player and make completions. Not an impossible request.

[jflow78]

So, by "customizing the offense" does that mean they're going to have the receivers actually lay on the ground, so they have a better chance at catching some of McNabb's passes?

Or does it mean that they're not actually going to have "plays" so that Donovan is no longer required to study a playbook, which he wouldn't do anyway.

[Bang]

Some coaches never won squat with him.

Oh wait,, none of his coaches ever won squat with him.

This guy had one coach and one system his entire career, and now he's an expert of what makes a situation truly unique?

The truly unique thing for him was a new offense, something he had not seen in 12 seasons.

And he failed to run it.

And that's it.

~Bang

[jflow78]

Nothing worse than veiled criticism. I hate when people mince words. Just say what you think. Obviously it was more important to McNabb to play the game his way, (which has won him so many Lombardi's) than change his game to do what a 2 time winning Super Bowl head coach asks of you.

I mean who the **** does Shanahan think he is right?

---------- Post added August-6th-2011 at 02:30 AM ----------

and before somebody comes in here and states "it's not that simple." Actually, YES it is. The problem is when people try to over complicate things that are not complicated.

I will give McNabb credit in one area. At least he said it himself this time instead of through his agent. He was a two-faced idiot who couldn't be "bothered" to learn a playbook and run the offense correctly, which is why Grossman looked like Peyton Manning at the end of the season when it was run correctly.

[LD0506]

Sheeesh, any time a player leaves this team the fans act like junior high girls that got jilted. The whole McNabb experiment didn't work and showed no signs it could. Damn shame IMO because it had potential, and when the trade went down people were fallin' all over themselves to praise it, but that's water under the bridge. So McNabb is relieved that he landed somewhere that will accommodate him? Cool, who wouldn't be pleased? Shanny & Co. are relieved not to have the disruption and attention caused by this? Again, who wouldn't be?

Shanny & Co. are instilling a regimented atmosphere to undo past damage, to eliminate the Vinnie hangover in a frathouse lockerroom. It is absolutely necessary, changing the environment is more important than winning games at this point, and Donovan chafed at that after having been catered to his entire career. This was a mistake in assessing that match and falls firmly on Shanny's shoulders, but he did the right thing and moved on. Square peg/round hole/whatever, it just didn't work, there's doesn't need to be a villian.

[Skinsinparadise]

Everything tends to be happy and great when you acquire a new player. If I buy into what I read about McNabb it wasn't that he was improvising but that he was improvising a lot and not running the game plan.

It's one thing to go off script its another to go mostly off script AND for the most part the improvising doesn't work. You couple that with the idea that maybe McNabb (according to some reports) had trouble mastering the offense quickly and didn't seem to work too hard at learning it -- then maybe you got trouble.

In Philly, he could run their system on automatic pilot so I presume he wants the Philly system wherever he goes?

Personally, I got not clue. But there is another side to the McNabb story.

[Boss_Hogg]

McNabb refused to fine tune is QB skills.

He needs to stop blaming others for his failures and look in the mirror.

[McD5]

I just hope that Mike has learned from this. Never has a coach got less from two gifted players. At least Kyle has admitted he was partially wrong, and hopefully the two learn to adjust in the future.

A strong case could be made for firing Mike and Kyle, and keeping McNabb and Fat Al. Let's see how it plays out.

[Hitman#21]

Don, and the media should just move on. Because Bruce, Mike and the fans already have.

[SWFLSkins]

This is why shanny will flop here and the search for a new coach will begin in Jan 2013.

He is an arrogant jerk who will throw a seasoned vet under the bus to protect his little boy.

He has already has one embarrassing season under his belt and is gearing up for number 2 right now.

You funny.

[MumboSauce]

Was just a bad fit...didn't work. Moving on. I wish McNabb the best..and the best for the Redskins.

[SWFLSkins]

I just hope that Mike has learned from this. Never has a coach got less from two gifted players. At least Kyle has admitted he was partially wrong, and hopefully the two learn to adjust in the future.

A strong case could be made for firing Mike and Kyle, and keeping McNabb and Fat Al. Let's see how it plays out.

Make that case, since it is so strong. I say watch how it plays out and then make some judgements.

[gholmesbm]

I think the issue between McNabb and Shanahan was just "fit". Both camps need to do things their way in order to be successful. In my mind, Shanahan's main mistake in this matter was not to realise that McNabb was like that before the trade, as there had been some pretty clear indications of that from his time in Philly. It was a mistake because it is very much more difficult to change a veteran who has had success his way.

Shanahan's system requires a QB who can fit into the system. There is nothing wrong with that per se, but it will not work with any QB. Shanahan has had success with his approach, and he is also not likely to change his approach at this stage in his career. Developing a younger player is easier, because they are much more willing to learn/adapt. It can work with a veteran who is flexible and who buys in, but to me that is a greater risk. With McNabb it clearly did not work out. Both he and the Redskins must move on.

I hope McNabb has sucess with Min (although losing to Redskins any time they play). If Musgrave is willing to adapt the offense to suit his strengths, then he is in a good situation to succeed.

I also look forward to Shanahan having success with our QB's, and bulding us an offense that can restore Redskins glory.

[Mania]

I dunno. I'll take the word of a 2-time Super Bowl winning coach over Musgrave and McNabb. Just sayin'

I think it's a combination of the two. Neither Shanahan nor Musgrave/McNabb are right on this. Yes, you have to have the ability to adapt, but you also shouldn't be expected to change the offense completely to fit the player either. Gibbs had the ability to adapt to the strenths of his players without completely changing his offense.

[Art]

I dunno. I'll take the word of a 2-time Super Bowl winning coach over Musgrave and McNabb. Just sayin'

You should AND you shouldn't.

Shanahan has a system. The Shanahan's have a system. It will be run. Period. End of story. It doesn't matter what individual players do best. It matters what they can do within these systems. There are MANY coaches who run very rigid, very specific systems. They identify certain player types to fit that system, implement it and go. In this way they don't have to adjust so greatly as a coach who adapts for a changing roster. They replace players who can't perform in the system. But you conform TO the system. At all times. Period. This style has won Shanahan titles and GREAT affection from many players. Including people like Mark Schlereth who played for Shanahan AND Gibbs.

Gibbs was THE most adaptable coach in league history most likely. He found what a player could do and gave him THAT to do. He adjusted his roster for his players constantly, from season to season, from game to game and, notably, WITHIN games.

When McNabb bristled at being a Shanahan model QB, he was benched and let go. His failure here was evident, but it was NOT entirely his fault. I prefer adaptable coaches and systems. To me, you can WANT to go to a 3-4, but you should have spent last season playing the 4-3 while you moved slowly to the 3-4. You should have used McNabb's skills.

The plain fact of the matter is McNabb will almost certainly lead the Vikings to a far better season than we'll have. Perhaps not, if we get good QB play, but, if the Vikings will give McNabb the things McNabb does well, they will succeed with him where we failed.

And we won't be "wrong" for that failure. We have systems which works and can work and have been proven to work. We have a staff which believes in it and believes in it so strongly as it knows it wins if the system is followed. And they are right. Even when it means they fail with a player they could have ALSO won with if they had a different belief system.

[StillUnknown]

Why not just dust the ol' brain off and give a try? Has Shanahan and his son ever denied being control freaks? It's well documented by this point that they are and there is not a single thing wrong with that if the results support it (which two super bowls and arguably the Texans offense does). Perhaps, just maybe, everyone is right. McNabb couldn't handle the level of control without becoming "robotic" (another way of saying underperforming). The Shanahans didn't like this under performance and weren't willing to customize an offense around the strengths of McNabb, they wanted to run their own system.

There is no law saying every story must include at least one bad guy. Sometimes it's just a bad fit and it's better to move in a different direction.

This about sums up my thoughts as well.

[TheShredder]

Obviously you don't trade or draft a guy that's not going to fit your system. If you're not ready to change your system, don't invest in a QB that doesn't fit the system. MS and KS and BA and DM5 were all in it together. It was DM5 who didn't perform. It was DM5 who couldn't get it and run the offense effectively. If he wasn't going to get it in year one then it wasn't going to ever happen.

DM5 still throws every third pass in the dirt. Nobody is perfect, but since DM5 doesn't focus and concentrate enough to make a screen or dump pass, how in the world is he going to learn a new offense. Collectively that was a poor decisions. Year 1 had some very poor decisions being made and year 2 looks much better. Year 3 is where I expect a very competitive team and a run towards the playoffs.

[grego]

This is why shanny will flop here and the search for a new coach will begin in Jan 2013.

He is an arrogant jerk who will throw a seasoned vet under the bus to protect his little boy.

He has already has one embarrassing season under his belt and is gearing up for number 2 right now.

what the hell??

i weep for our fanbase.

[kubstix]

McNabb refused to fine tune is QB skills.

He needs to stop blaming others for his failures and look in the mirror.

What fine tune? It's like Brady getting traded to the Eagles and asked to play QB style like Vick. McNabb isn't really a failure. He never won the big game sure, but he probably has a playoff record similar to Manning with only 1 superbowl. They never gave him the tools around him to get it done except when getting T.O. It was both the Shanny's handling it, and a bit of McNabb. You don't ask a winning QB to change things complete opposite of what your used to and not play to strengths. If the Shannys knew this was going to be the case, then why trade for McNabb? That is just dumb. Maybe this really was one of Snyder's handpicked trades?

[grego]

A strong case could be made for firing Mike and Kyle, and keeping McNabb and Fat Al. Let's see how it plays out.

you side with mcnabb and al over mike and kyle?

good lord.

how do you not think that its as simple as grumpy old vet players not willing to do what the coaches ask? always a conspiracy against our pampered favorite talented players for some reason.

wacky.

[SirClintonPortis]

If we want to make this a "credibility war", then Mike Shanahan has some accolades too.

Mike Shanahan milked out prodigous seasons out of Jake Plummer and Jay Cutler. Now, Plummer HATES Shanahan with a passion, but even so, his 4000 yard seasons is more than what McNabb could do(even if he was on pace for it last season).

Oh, and yeah, that performance by Steve Young in that Super Bowl? Mike the jerk was instrumental in the playcalling then.

[Ashburn Dave]

The problem with the McNabb trade was that we gave up too much to get him. A 2nd and 4th rounder for a QB long in the tooth and didn't fit our system. We're always going to be scratching our head over this one.

[Enter Apotheosis]

I have to disagree with that statement. Donovan McNabb wasn’t perfect for anybody’s scheme. Coaches don’t design schemes for passers who are inconsistent on short-to-medium range throws. In 1999, Andy Reid pretty much abandoned the WCO ball control philosophy for a young QB who could run, extend plays, and throw the deep pass well.

Throwing on rhythm is basic for a WCO QB. Kyle Shanahan was called a control freak for trying to teach McNabb to throw on rhythm. He isn’t a WCO QB. Donovan doesn’t fit anybody’s scheme.

Of course, that's ultimately why it didn't work. My point was simply that the Shanahans likely saw McNabb's raw physical ability and a couple of ways in which they could conceivably fix some of his short-intermediate accuracy issues. What they couldn't account for on tape was Donovan's lack of adaptability and receptiveness to the kinds of things they hoped to alter in his game.

[KCClybun]

There's something I don't get when people say that Joe Gibbs was the most adaptable coach ever...the fact that he won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks.

The thing that gets me is, you can't fundamentally change your whole system every time you get a new quarterback. You can't have the same level of continuity if, when you're changing quarterback's as frequently as Coach Gibbs, you fundamentally change your offense everytime you make a quarterback change. I think what Gibbs did wasn't so much adapt and change, but tweak his offense to suit his guys strengths. And that's what most offensive coordinators are going to do; accentuate the positives, try to mitigate some of the negatives. Gibbs was a guy who was great at getting the most out of the quarterbacks he had, but I don't think he was always adapting to new guys. Especially when you consider how often Doug Williams was coming off the bench and not quite being a starter during that Super Bowl run.

And that's where the disconnect with McNabb comes in. I think the probably wasn't an unwillingness on Kyle's part to adapt. I think McNabb wanted to, essentially, blow up Kyle's playbook and run things more like they did in Philly. Which basically amounted to being allowed to improvise whenever he please. Kyle's whole offense depends on timing and being precise with you footwork and your hitches, he helped develop a Pro Bowl quarterback with that system, we saw glimpses of what it could be with a career bust like Rex Grossman operating it (and I like Rex). But McNabb wanted to do his own thing.

McNabb's a lot more "me first" than people let on. He wanted to improvise in an offense that he barely knew, and was struggling in, because Andy Reid had pretty much abandoned the core principles of the WCO and allowed him to. McNabb got by on his athleticism for a long time, but despite doing and saying all the right things, I don't think he was dedicated to trying to be the best quarterback. Mike bought into Donovan's outer persona and thought he could help him fix the things that Andy Reid pretty much gave up on trying to fix. It bit him in the butt.

I do give McNabb props for manning up and actually SAYING what some of the problems were, but I don't think having more freedom is going to make the Vikes a success. Not with Rice gone. Not with no o-line. Not in the exact same situation he found himself in here and couldn't deal with.