www.sfexaminer.com: Donovan article, taking subtle shots at Coach Shanahan

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

McScrub has a fairly lengthy history at pointing the blame at everyone else. I think the real issue is what he pointed out a few years back; when he tried to compare himself to C. Palmer and P. Manning. Its because you're black dude :ols:

This guy is such a douche bag. People always try and point out how he handles everything with such professionalism. I say that is BS. The response he gives to all the criticism he has faced over the years, always sounds scripted. He seems to wait until his critics are gone or he has seperated himself from them, to say what he really feels (ie, this article). That says one thing about the guy...Phony Coward. Like I have said before, TO was dead on about McScrub.

Musgrave....he drafted Christian Ponder to be their future QB...NUFF SAID!!

[nightbird]

I think McNabb is being taken out of context.

There's no way he meant this as a passive aggressive dig at Shanny.

The reason I know this is because McNabb is so classy. ESPN said so. Repeatedly. And no classy person would intend a statement that way.

And even if I'm wrong, Mcnabb still has every right to say that, because he's classy, and due to his classiness, he should have been guaranteed the starting job here. For life. With no criticism.

Because he's classy.

[OuterBanksTarHeel]

There's something I don't get when people say that Joe Gibbs was the most adaptable coach ever...the fact that he won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks.

The thing that gets me is, you can't fundamentally change your whole system every time you get a new quarterback. You can't have the same level of continuity if, when you're changing quarterback's as frequently as Coach Gibbs, you fundamentally change your offense everytime you make a quarterback change. I think what Gibbs did wasn't so much adapt and change, but tweak his offense to suit his guys strengths. And that's what most offensive coordinators are going to do; accentuate the positives, try to mitigate some of the negatives. Gibbs was a guy who was great at getting the most out of the quarterbacks he had, but I don't think he was always adapting to new guys. Especially when you consider how often Doug Williams was coming off the bench and not quite being a starter during that Super Bowl run.

And that's where the disconnect with McNabb comes in. I think the probably wasn't an unwillingness on Kyle's part to adapt. I think McNabb wanted to, essentially, blow up Kyle's playbook and run things more like they did in Philly. Which basically amounted to being allowed to improvise whenever he please. Kyle's whole offense depends on timing and being precise with you footwork and your hitches, he helped develop a Pro Bowl quarterback with that system, we saw glimpses of what it could be with a career bust like Rex Grossman operating it (and I like Rex). But McNabb wanted to do his own thing.

McNabb's a lot more "me first" than people let on. He wanted to improvise in an offense that he barely knew, and was struggling in, because Andy Reid had pretty much abandoned the core principles of the WCO and allowed him to. McNabb got by on his athleticism for a long time, but despite doing and saying all the right things, I don't think he was dedicated to trying to be the best quarterback. Mike bought into Donovan's outer persona and thought he could help him fix the things that Andy Reid pretty much gave up on trying to fix. It bit him in the butt.

I do give McNabb props for manning up and actually SAYING what some of the problems were, but I don't think having more freedom is going to make the Vikes a success. Not with Rice gone. Not with no o-line. Not in the exact same situation he found himself in here and couldn't deal with.

Thanks for this. I'm so tired of people exaggerating Gibbs's adaptiveness.

During his tenure at various points, he had: 1) arguably the best OL in NFL history; 2) a HOF RB; 3) a HOF WR; 4) a WR (Gary Clark) who put up HOF #'s and made several Pro Bowls; 5) another 1,000K WR in Ricky Sanders.

He also coached during a time when teams had more roster flexibility. Rypien was on the roster in '86, standing on the sidelines in street clothes. He had several years to sit, learn, digest the system.

People also act like Gibbs won w/ "average" QB's.

Um, no. Joey T was a top 5 QB in his prime and won a league MVP.

Jay S., for all the flack he's given, made the Pro Bowl in '86 and was one of the best QB's in the NFL that season. He also helped the Skins win several key games during the '87 run, something many forget.

Doug Williams came to the Skins with a nice resume; he'd carried the creamsicle Bucs to multiple playoff berths--'nuff said.

Rypien, despite the amazing OL play, was simply stunning in '91. To this day, I've yet to see a QB dominate like he did that season. His accuracy was amazing and surgical. Maybe Brady in '07 matches this.

Fact of the matter is, Gibbs never won w/ average QB's and/or average QB play. It's an insult to those players to suggest otherwise.

[grego]

I think McNabb is being taken out of context.

There's no way he meant this as a passive aggressive dig at Shanny.

The reason I know this is because McNabb is so classy. ESPN said so. Repeatedly. And no classy person would intend a statement that way.

And even if I'm wrong, Mcnabb still has every right to say that, because he's classy, and due to his classiness, he should have been guaranteed the starting job here. For life. With no criticism.

Because he's classy.

ya. youre right. what was i thinking? why would anyone think its his fault for playing badly? gotta be another reason.

[KDawg]

As a coach, I believe in tailoring the system to the player. Not the other way around. So in that regard, I agree with McNabb. However, the Shanahan's are bringing in people that fit their system now. So they don't have to change their style. It's a good tactic. As long as you only sign fits and not superstars.

The whole McNabb fiasco, from the trade, to the system, to Donovan's rigidness, to the coaching staffs rigidness was handled poorly. Everyone is better off, now.

[Mad Mike]

what the hell??

i weep for our fanbase.

I feel ya bro. :doh:

[authentic]

WHO CARES!!!!!!!!

Hes gone and is an after thought. Shanny tried a win now approach with the roster he had last season and didnt work out. There is a new mind set in town. Who cares where McNabb went or what hes doing or if Haynworth performs better in NE, or if portis isgonna play for a contendor or if los will catch a pick in SF. Who the **** cares. All other franchises cut ties with star players all the time and they become an after thought this is a mentality we need to start taking here.

Stop dwelling in the past and look to the future cause from what i see the future looks bright and the winning times will be back in DC soon.

^^ This!! IMO, this was good talk during the lockout, but i think we all need to move on. I can really care less what McNabb does until we see Minny on week 16.

[grego]

As a coach, I believe in tailoring the system to the player. Not the other way around. So in that regard, I agree with McNabb. However, the Shanahan's are bringing in people that fit their system now. So they don't have to change their style. It's a good tactic. As long as you only sign fits and not superstars.

you know, i get that. its smart, it makes sense. why not use your players strengths?

i dunno. i think there was something different going on here. it seems like with the talk of the pace or tempo of practice, that it was more than just a little thing here or there. i also think its entirely plausible that mcnabb was a vet who was set in his ways and not willing to take coaching from a guy younger than him whose dad is the HC.

i think there could also be a mental thing there. not meant to be a cheap shot at all at mcnabb, but maybe he couldnt get what they were doing. maybe its all of these things.

at the end of the day, it seems like shanny decided he wasnt going to get it. no way did he want to give up on mcnabb without a very good reason- not after what he gave up for him. i just think its more than him being set in his ways and too stubborn to be flexible with mcnabb.

[LUCKYMAN]

Hi everyone. I am new here and this is my first post. Just want to comment on complaints from McNabb and Haynesworth. Regardless of the "system" or "style" ...I don't think a system will affect someone to the point that he throws a 10 yard pass in the dirt 3 yards in front of a wide open receiver. Sometimes it just boils down to being talented. And the same goes for a Defensive lineman who lays on the ground for 5 seconds while a play is still alive. Laziness and stubborness have nothing to do with being able to play in a "system".

[grego]

Hi everyone. I am new here and this is my first post. Just want to comment on complaints from McNabb and Haynesworth. Regardless of the "system" or "style" ...I don't think a system will affect someone to the point that he throws a 10 yard pass in the dirt 3 yards in front of a wide open receiver. Sometimes it just boils down to being talented. And the same goes for a Defensive lineman who lays on the ground for 5 seconds while a play is still alive. Laziness and stubborness have nothing to do with being able to play in a "system".

thats very well said, and an excellent first post.

and it just so happens to be an opinion i share

[NewCliche21]

I wonder how many "Strengths" McNabb has left other than his deep ball, we'll see. As for Bill Musgrave, I'll take Mike Shanahan over him all day long.

What deep ball? You mean the one that Armstrong had to consistently stop, take a nap, backtrack, and wait for?

[KDawg]

Hi everyone. I am new here and this is my first post. Just want to comment on complaints from McNabb and Haynesworth. Regardless of the "system" or "style" ...I don't think a system will affect someone to the point that he throws a 10 yard pass in the dirt 3 yards in front of a wide open receiver. Sometimes it just boils down to being talented. And the same goes for a Defensive lineman who lays on the ground for 5 seconds while a play is still alive. Laziness and stubborness have nothing to do with being able to play in a "system".

A system can affect someone to the point where they are throwing a worm burner.

If you're uncomfortable/not sure of yourself, your performance suffers. You think more than react. You have to be so familiar with a system that when things happen in real game time, you just react.

Now, that said, McNabb has always thrown worm burners. I'd say his TD:INT ratio is more of a indicator of how uncomfortable he was, for whatever reason, than anything else.

[Oldfan]

Of course, that's ultimately why it didn't work. My point was simply that the Shanahans likely saw McNabb's raw physical ability and a couple of ways in which they could conceivably fix some of his short-intermediate accuracy issues. What they couldn't account for on tape was Donovan's lack of adaptability and receptiveness to the kinds of things they hoped to alter in his game.

Sorry if I misunderstood. When you said he was perfect for the scheme, I thought you meant he was perfect for the WCO without an overhaul of his mechanics.

[TheMatt28]

What deep ball? You mean the one that Armstrong had to consistently stop, take a nap, backtrack, and wait for?

That is true, and his terrible footwork contributes to this.

[SocratesDC]

I hate the Eagles, but McNabb was the best QB we had since Joe Theismann and our absurdly overrated coach screwed it up. Remember that shootout with the Texans last year? None of these other stiffs we've had under center in the last 12 years could have kept us in that game. Mr. Snyder needs to fire Shanahan and clean house.

[KDawg]

I hate the Eagles, but McNabb was the best QB we had since Joe Theismann and our absurdly overrated coach screwed it up. Remember that shootout with the Texans last year? None of these other stiffs we've had under center in the last 12 years could have kept us in that game. Mr. Snyder needs to fire Shanahan and clean house.

Best quarterback since Theismann?

That was your first post?

If you had said: "he's the most famous, most hyped quarterback on our team since Thiesmann" I'd be apt to agree. But best?

[Oldfan]

This is one of those topics where we really need to first define our terms. Here, we are talking about a matter of degree. Adapting a scheme to fit a QB is one thing, abandoning it is another.

Kubiak's handling of Matt Schuab is an example of a coach adapting a scheme to the QB's skillset. Schaub wasn't a perfect fit for the Shanahan version of the WCO. In fact, many well-informed people thought he was misfit for the scheme.

Andy Reid didn't tweak the WCO for Donovan McNabb in 1999. He virtually abandoned it and built a scheme tailored to suit a young, talented athlete. It isn't likely he would have done that if McNabb had been 34.

[NewCliche21]

I hate the Eagles, but McNabb was the best QB we had since Joe Theismann and our absurdly overrated coach screwed it up. Remember that shootout with the Texans last year? None of these other stiffs we've had under center in the last 12 years could have kept us in that game. Mr. Snyder needs to fire Shanahan and clean house.

Dude, really?

Better quarterbacks than McNabb since Theismann:

- Doug Williams

- Mark Rypien

- Gus Frerotte

- Brad Johnson

- Mark Brunnell

That's not including quarterbacks who were better on other teams, such as Trent Green.

McNabb played one season here because he was awful here. That's just fact.

A player's career history is completely irrelevant or Sonny would still be our quarterback.

[LUCKYMAN]

without question Shanahan is stubborn like Hayesworth and McNabb...but Shanny is also a drill sargeant and after Jim (BARNEY FIFE) Zorn it is a welcome addition to have a my way or the highway coach because the highway we were on was a DEAD END.

[NewCliche21]

without question Shanahan is stubborn like Hayesworth and McNabb...but Shanny is also a drill sargeant and after Jim (BARNEY FIFE) Zorn it is a welcome addition to have a my way or the highway coach because the highway we were on was a DEAD END.

Honestly, welcome to the board, but posts like this one aren't going to be received well. This isn't a political debate; rehashing months-old talking points just get you a reaction.

[LUCKYMAN]

A system can affect someone to the point where they are throwing a worm burner.

If you're uncomfortable/not sure of yourself, your performance suffers. You think more than react. You have to be so familiar with a system that when things happen in real game time, you just react.

Now, that said, McNabb has always thrown worm burners. I'd say his TD:INT ratio is more of a indicator of how uncomfortable he was, for whatever reason, than anything else.

I am glad you brought up the fact that you have to be familiar with a system but you left out being familiar with receivers as well. Perhaps people will read this and stop clamoring for Beck to be replaced after 1 week of practicing throwing to rookie receivers after a full season of zero mini camps. geeeesh. I don't care if Beck is replaced with Grossman or with Andrew Luck but how about we at least wait until 3 preseason games before we form any legitimate opinion of the guy.

[NewCliche21]

I am glad you brought up the fact that you have to be familiar with a system but you left out being familiar with receivers as well. Perhaps people will read this and stop clamoring for Beck to be replaced after 1 week of practicing throwing to rookie receivers after a full season of zero mini camps. geeeesh. I don't care if Beck is replaced with Grossman or with Andrew Luck but how about we at least wait until 3 preseason games before we form any legitimate opinion of the guy.

Now that's a post.

[SocratesDC]

Dude, really?

Better quarterbacks than McNabb since Theismann:

- Doug Williams

- Mark Rypien

- Gus Frerotte

- Brad Johnson

- Mark Brunnell

That's not including quarterbacks who were better on other teams, such as Trent Green.

McNabb played one season here because he was awful here. That's just fact.

A player's career history is completely irrelevant or Sonny would still be our quarterback.

I'm not talking about McNabb's season here under a futile coaching staff. I'm taking his entire career into account. None of you QB's you listed have put the numbers or had the success/talent that McNabb has had. Gus Frerotte... lol

[KDawg]

I am glad you brought up the fact that you have to be familiar with a system but you left out being familiar with receivers as well. Perhaps people will read this and stop clamoring for Beck to be replaced after 1 week of practicing throwing to rookie receivers after a full season of zero mini camps. geeeesh. I don't care if Beck is replaced with Grossman or with Andrew Luck but how about we at least wait until 3 preseason games before we form any legitimate opinion of the guy.

I didn't leave that out.

System familiarity trumps receiver familiarity. But receiver familiarity is certainly important. But again, if the receiver/QB both know the system, then they'll be in the right place when they need to be.

---------- Post added August-6th-2011 at 02:37 PM ----------

I'm not talking about McNabb's season here under a futile coaching staff. I'm taking his entire career into account. None of you QB's you listed have put the numbers or had the success/talent that McNabb has had. Gus Frerotte... lol

Let me ask you: What does a player's production in another system, in a different organization who was in a completely different place than our very own Redskins, matter? It doesn't. Donovan was the best QB in another place to come to DC in 20 years. He was also, statistically, one of the worst Redskin QBs in 20 years. What he did as an Eagle has no bearing on his Redskin production.

You choose to place full blame on the coaching staff.

The truth is, Donovan and the Shanahan's were both to blame.

[NewCliche21]

I'm not talking about McNabb's season here under a futile coaching staff. I'm taking his entire career into account. None of you QB's you listed have put the numbers or had the success/talent that McNabb has had. Gus Frerotte... lol

What does his career have to do with anything? Your entire argument is flawed, and I've already countered it before you even posted that.

And, just to check: Are you actually a Redskins fan? Doug Williams had the greatest Super Bowl performance of any player, ever. Mark Rypien led one of the top offenses, ever. I'd take either of them over McNabb nine times out of eight.