www.sfexaminer.com: Donovan article, taking subtle shots at Coach Shanahan

[skinsfan913]

DMac is absolutely correct in his remarks!!! A great coacj will always tailor his offense around what his players do the best! PERIOD! If you dont believe me see Belichek, Reid, & payton as a few examples of coaches that actually know what it takes to win. Shanahan has NEVER and I repeat NEVER developed any QB that was worth a dam! McNabb is a future Hall of Famer and looked liked he couldnt play the game under Shanahan?! No way he lost his talent over night!! He, along with others on this team were asked to do things that they were not comfortable doing with their particular skill sets so instead of tailoring your offense to correct that you play guys that have NO business playing unless someone were to get injured. Shanahan was FIRED for a very good reason in Denver and that was because he was a LOSER and based off last years decisions not much has changed!

[onedrop]

DMac is absolutely correct in his remarks!!! A great coacj will always tailor his offense around what his players do the best! PERIOD! If you dont believe me see Belichek, Reid, & payton as a few examples of coaches that actually know what it takes to win. Shanahan has NEVER and I repeat NEVER developed any QB that was worth a dam! McNabb is a future Hall of Famer and looked liked he couldnt play the game under Shanahan?! No way he lost his talent over night!! He, along with others on this team were asked to do things that they were not comfortable doing with their particular skill sets so instead of tailoring your offense to correct that you play guys that have NO business playing unless someone were to get injured. Shanahan was FIRED for a very good reason in Denver and that was because he was a LOSER and based off last years decisions not much has changed!

tweaking your offense to match PLAYERS is one thing. letting an aging QB that refuses to budge change your offensive philosophy and strategy is another thing entirely. mcnugget was an eagle forever and made his life off of the deep ball and westbrook. without westbrook he was exposed. hes always been a bit overrated. he should just go to the vikes, STFU and let his career die.

[MartinC]

DMac is absolutely correct in his remarks!!! A great coacj will always tailor his offense around what his players do the best! PERIOD! If you dont believe me see Belichek, Reid, & payton as a few examples of coaches that actually know what it takes to win. Shanahan has NEVER and I repeat NEVER developed any QB that was worth a dam! !

Steve Young ring a bell? He was pretty bad until Shanny worked with him and turned out quite well. Elway had won squat as well until he started woking with Mike.

[grego]

Shanahan has NEVER and I repeat NEVER developed any QB that was worth a dam! !

you might want to re-check mike shanahans resume. young and elway excelled beyond anything they'd done before he came around. and otherwise average QB's played well under his tutelage as opposed to what they had done before.

[Santana_89]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/09/AR2010080902329.html

Great article on Kyle last year it is why I am a believer in the kid and knows given the right players he can do for Washington what he did for Houston. Kyle has worked hard for this opportunity it wasn't just given to because of "dad" he still is one of the promising young oc's in the league no matter what Bmitch, Jaime Dukes, 5 or anyone ele says.

He wanted to go into coaching. "I thought he was too smart for it, but obviously he's not," his father once cracked. It was Mike's edict that he would never hire his son until he mastered his craft with another organization in the NFL. So Kyle went off and understudied in Tampa Bay with Jon Gruden. He soaked up "every play known to man," but the best thing he did was spy on the defensive meetings run by Mike Tomlin and Monte Kiffin. He listened to learn how to beat them. "If you don't learn defense, you're just calling plays," he says.

Tomlin would say, "When this guy is open here we'll jump it," and Kyle would look for ways to punish the defensive gambles. Pretty soon he was devising his own counter moves. "That's when you're playing chess," he says. "That's what I like: the chess match."

Promotion quickly followed promotion, until the Texans' Gary Kubiak named him the youngest coordinator in the league in 2008. By the time his father hired him to join the Redskins, there was no longer any question of nepotism, because the kid's résumé read like this: under Kyle's direction Texans quarterback Matt Schaub put up 3,043 yards in '08, followed by 4,770 in 2009, more than Peyton Manning, Drew Brees or Tony Romo sits to pee. There didn't seem to be a defense he couldn't solve.

"I keep getting asked about my system," he says. "You know, I really don't know what my system is. It's whatever the weakness of the defense is."

His style of play calling for the Redskins promises to be opportunistic, even greedy. "One thing I can say, our offense is going to attack. We're going to attack you and attack you aggressively, whether running the ball, throwing the ball, it doesn't matter. We're going to be aggressive, and attack whatever the weakness is."

[redskinsfan4life29]

i thought that at one time. after the debacle with the double talk from him and his agent last year, and the rumblings from the insiders, i changed my mind.

If our damn defense couldhave stopped someone mcnabb would have won the damn texans game where he was awesome.....If gano would have made the extra point we would have probably beat the bucs....So thats two mcnabb"losses"which could have been a win.....He had 3200 passing yards with 3 games to go.How did he lose it?Was it when he dropped back and got hit after 2 seconds yeah........How did that work for grossman?suh td.U blame everything on mcnabb.......Im a white guy and im blaming the race thing....thats why noone likes him cause there is no reason not to...jim kelly loses 4 Superbowls and he doesnt get made fun of or is inconsistant but mcnabb goes to 5 nfc championship games and no sb and people say stuff SHAME

Wait a minute mcnabb inconsistant?I remember he took an eagles team with pinkston thrash freddie mitchell to 4 nfc championship games..

this has been discussed ad nauseum. all that stuff was in the past. everyone loses it eventually and last year appeared to be his time.

you dont know if beck is any good or not. nobody does. why would you say that? honestly, your post sounds like you love mcnabb more than the team you are supposed to be rooting for. weird.

i actually agree with you. all i've heard is that our QB position is a ?, so we are going to win 3 games. i'm sorry, but i think grossman is more than capable of duplicating mcnabbs performance from last year. and i'll also bet he exceeds it. it wouldnt be that hard.

edit- someone just talked about this very thing on the junkies. lurch said the QB position wasnt better this year even if the rest of the team is, partly cuz of grossmans turnovers. people forget that mcnabb fumbles at a similar rate to grossman- only real difference was mcnabb was lucky to have almost all of his recovered. grossman wasnt.

[SwampEm]

This is nothing. How many of you have taken positions at companies that are formally "the enemy"? When ever you get to company B, you are going to make a few remarks on how company A resisted change, was inefficient in one thing or another etc.

[tiger187126]

This is nothing. How many of you have taken positions at companies that are formally "the enemy"? When ever you get to company B, you are going to make a few remarks on how company A resisted change, was inefficient in one thing or another etc.

not all of us are defended for being as classy as mcnabb or have a squeaky clean public imagine that make us appear the martyr.

him taking shots at someone for his shortcomings should be surprising and out of character if you're using his public perception.

we also don't have the soapbox that he speaks from.

[pjfootballer]

I look at it this way. The Shanahans want the offense run a certain way, meaning all 11 guys on the field working as one. When the other 10 adjust their games, but one doesn't, the onus is on the 1. Same with Haynesworth. They other 10 guys played the defense. He chose not to.

[Taylor 36]

I look at it this way. The Shanahans want the offense run a certain way, meaning all 11 guys on the field working as one. When the other 10 adjust their games, but one doesn't, the onus is on the 1. Same with Haynesworth. They other 10 guys played the defense. He chose not to.

Excellent point. We spend so much time debating the one guy, whether it is defending or dogging that guy, that sometimes I think we, as fans and posters, forget to look at the whole team and what the other players did/didn't do in the same situation. When put as you have, pj, it really shows how selfish and inconsiderate Haynesworth and McNabb were/are.

[skinsfan913]

tweaking your offense to match PLAYERS is one thing. letting an aging QB that refuses to budge change your offensive philosophy and strategy is another thing entirely. mcnugget was an eagle forever and made his life off of the deep ball and westbrook. without westbrook he was exposed. hes always been a bit overrated. he should just go to the vikes, STFU and let his career die.

Dude why dont you STFU and stop looking at the Skins through your rose colored glasses!!! We are what everybody thinks we are and that is absolute GARBAGE!! if Shanny was so good then why isnt her still coaching in Denver?! I'll tell you why, its because he sucks as a head coach!! Mcnabb was real overrated especially all those times when he basically beat us by his self or dont you remember those games?! You dont go get a QB thats been in the league with as much success as DMac has had and try and change him to your BS scheme! All GREAT coaches tailor their scheme to fit their personnel and not the other way around you idiot!! So the next time you feel like telling someone to STFU look at the REAL facts and not some storyline you've read on the Skins boards!!! SMFH at the ignorance on this board!!

[tiger187126]

Dude why dont you STFU and stop looking at the Skins through your rose colored glasses!!! We are what everybody thinks we are and that is absolute GARBAGE!! if Shanny was so good then why isnt her still coaching in Denver?! I'll tell you why, its because he sucks as a head coach!! Mcnabb was real overrated especially all those times when he basically beat us by his self or dont you remember those games?! You dont go get a QB thats been in the league with as much success as DMac has had and try and change him to your BS scheme! All GREAT coaches tailor their scheme to fit their personnel and not the other way around you idiot!! So the next time you feel like telling someone to STFU look at the REAL facts and not some storyline you've read on the Skins boards!!! SMFH at the ignorance on this board!!

first off, enjoy your ban.

second, "ALL GREAT COACHES" is a complete generalization and in no way is anything close to fact. there are other examples in this same thread so i won't drag them up again, but just because you say something that you think sounds right doesn't make it true.

while we're on that, don't you think that coaches obtain players that fit their scheme? shanny thought mcnabb would, but his refusal to budge on what he did caused the whole relationship to turn sour quickly. shanny admitted his mistake, cut his losses and moved on with a two guys who are the polar opposite and aren't looking to get by on their past accomplishments.

you're phrase "...tailor their scheme to fit their personnel and not the other way around..." is pretty untrue. that would mean you would just pick up some guy and build your entire system around him instead of taking people who fit your system.

and with two super bowl rings and a coordinator who is a pretty good offensive mind, i think they have a pretty good idea of a successful system.

[Jumbo]

first off, enjoy your ban..

7 days of freedom from ES stress!

(Available from conveniently located agents)

[iMeast]

Meh ... egos and personalities clash. Keep it to yourselves and play football.

HTTR

[onedrop]

first off, enjoy your ban.

second, "ALL GREAT COACHES" is a complete generalization and in no way is anything close to fact. there are other examples in this same thread so i won't drag them up again, but just because you say something that you think sounds right doesn't make it true.

while we're on that, don't you think that coaches obtain players that fit their scheme? shanny thought mcnabb would, but his refusal to budge on what he did caused the whole relationship to turn sour quickly. shanny admitted his mistake, cut his losses and moved on with a two guys who are the polar opposite and aren't looking to get by on their past accomplishments.

you're phrase "...tailor their scheme to fit their personnel and not the other way around..." is pretty untrue. that would mean you would just pick up some guy and build your entire system around him instead of taking people who fit your system.

and with two super bowl rings and a coordinator who is a pretty good offensive mind, i think they have a pretty good idea of a successful system.

damn, all i did was take a little nap. at least now i dont have to bother typing a response. thanks for saying just about what i would have. im well rested now.

[darrelgreenie]

Andy Reid got great results from McNabb by doing just this - adjusting his scheme to fit McNabbs big play style of play. People keep talking about how McNabb has played in a WCO but I would say thats not the case. Reid moved away from a rythym based ball control passing attack to a big play vertical attack to cater for what McNabb does well and to hide his issues in the shorter game and with his footwork which hinder his ability to be consistent with his accuracy short and medium.

I don't think Andy Reid changed his offensive to suit McNabb.

Reid currently runs and will probably always run a pass heavy vertical version of the WCO whenever he has the personnel to do so.

But, at its core both with/without McNabb the passing game remains a rhythm drop back timing sync'd passing attack.

I think the perception about McNabb's lack of short game is grossly overstated and doesn't match-up with the production of Westbrook as a receiving threat.

However I will agree that within the confines of the offense McNabb takes big play risks at down and distances that aren't wise and lower his/the offenses effficiency.(this trait is typical of playmaking QBs)

That made total sense, though I would question why Reid did not do more to work on McNabbs weaknesses when he was a younger QB to mske him a more rounded and complete player. Maybe he tried.

Having been a fan of McNabb over the years I disagree a great deal with this view.

If you've watched NFLN Sound FX best of series Andy Ried there is a segment that shows practice footage of McNabb as rookie(young QB) and Reid is teaching the fundamentals of the WCO.

Now McNabb is a short term rental - he has a couple of years in the tank at best as a starter in the NFL. So junking your system makes no sense for a Redskins team which is installing a brand new system and is bringing along younger players. You can certainly question why we traded for him in the first place (I did) but the decision to trade him away, even for what amounts to a ham sandwich, was the only sensible thing to do.

McNabb turned out to be a short term rental but I doubt that was the intent.

I'm not sure why you choose to describe adapting a scheme to suit the QB in the derogatory fashion here: "junking your system".

I don't see how that coaching skill can be refered to in a negative sense, nor how or why it would negate or minimize other aspects of an offense.

Good discussion though.......

I do agree that it didn't work out here and that it was time to move on.

I just don't seea reason for the uproar over Musgrave and McNabbs comments.

[MartinC]

I don't think Andy Reid changed his offensive to suit McNabb.

Reid currently runs and will probably always run a pass heavy vertical version of the WCO whenever he has the personnel to do so.

But, at its core both with/without McNabb the passing game remains a rhythm drop back timing sync'd passing attack.

I'd have to watch a lot more old Eagles games to really debate this is any depth but my overall impression from what I have seen of the Eagles over the last decade - which is mainly when they play us and playoffs - is that Reid moved away from his WCO roots to work with what Donovan did best which is make big 'chunk' plays. They were far more vertical than a typical WCO and a lot of the short passing game was based around a variety of screens. There were not the staple of slants and drags to the extent you would see in a more traditional WCO and the completion percentages are lower than you would see from most top level WCO QBs.

McNabbs footwork has always been sloppy IMO - not so much in drop back but in set up and how he transfers weight. He throws off the back foot a lot when he does not have to and he is not consistent in his base IMO.

I think the perception about McNabb's lack of short game is grossly overstated and doesn't match-up with the production of Westbrook as a receiving threat.

I think a lot of Westbrooks threat as a receiver was based off an excellent screen game. One thing we have talked about before and which I think we both agree on is the inexplicable lack of screen calls in our gameplans given that McNabb is very good at these and that we were also having pass protection issues.

However I will agree that within the confines of the offense McNabb takes big play risks at down and distances that aren't wise and lower his/the offenses effficiency.(this trait is typical of playmaking QBs)

Agreed.

Having been a fan of McNabb over the years I disagree a great deal with this view.

If you've watched NFLN Sound FX best of series Andy Ried there is a segment that shows practice footage of McNabb as rookie(young QB) and Reid is teaching the fundamentals of the WCO.

I rated McNabb as very good QB as well - to be clear I'm not trying to suggest the guy could not play, he has been very effective for a long time in this league. I'm also sure Reid did work with McNabb to improve some of his fundementals but I think the balance of what happended was Reid worked around some of his shortcomings rather than trying to force some things that did not come naturally. We will probably never know exactly where that balance lay.

McNabb turned out to be a short term rental but I doubt that was the intent.

I'm not sure why you choose to describe adapting a scheme to suit the QB in the derogatory fashion here: "junking your system".

I don't see how that coaching skill can be refered to in a negative sense, nor how or why it would negate or minimize other aspects of an offense.

I think the plan was to get 3 or maybe 4 years out of McNabb so we could be competitive immediatley and to act as a bridge to a long term QB. With that having failed and Shanny seeing first hand the shortcomings on our roster we now seem to be taking a step back and undertaking at least a partial rebuild. The junking your system phrase was part hyperbole but the point was not about last year it was about the decision to move on and trade McNabb rather than make the changes to our offensive system needed to work with McNabbs game - it was not worth it for a QB who is pretty close to the end now as a starter and on a roster which was going to be rebuilt.

Good discussion though.......

I do agree that it didn't work out here and that it was time to move on.

I just don't seea reason for the uproar over Musgrave and McNabbs comments.

I dont see what the fuss about the comments is either. The Vikings are in a different place to us in terms of team development/lifecycle and its a totally different situation.

[P007]

I dunno. I'll take the word of a 2-time Super Bowl winning coach over Musgrave and McNabb. Just sayin'

Yeha and Shanny also has 1 playoff win in the last ten years. The 2 time super bowl winning coach label has sailed so long ago.

[onedrop]

Yeha and Shanny also has 1 playoff win in the last ten years. The 2 time super bowl winning coach label has sailed so long ago.

as has the pro bowl caliber qb label. Shanahan is a Redskin and is invested. mcnugget is not and his commitment last year wasnt definite. either way its over now. time to support those that are Redskins.

[P007]

This is why shanny will flop here and the search for a new coach will begin in Jan 2013.

He is an arrogant jerk who will throw a seasoned vet under the bus to protect his little boy.

He has already has one embarrassing season under his belt and is gearing up for number 2 right now.

I think you are right but I think Shanny will be gone in 2012.

---------- Post added August-9th-2011 at 12:42 PM ----------

I will give McNabb credit in one area. At least he said it himself this time instead of through his agent. He was a two-faced idiot who couldn't be "bothered" to learn a playbook and run the offense correctly, which is why Grossman looked like Peyton Manning at the end of the season when it was run correctly.

Grossman never looked like Peyton Manning. Also he was in the system a year before in Houston so he alreday knew it.

---------- Post added August-9th-2011 at 01:26 PM ----------

Dude, really?

Better quarterbacks than McNabb since Theismann:

- Doug Williams

- Mark Rypien

- Gus Frerotte

- Brad Johnson

- Mark Brunnell

That's not including quarterbacks who were better on other teams, such as Trent Green.

McNabb played one season here because he was awful here. That's just fact.

A player's career history is completely irrelevant or Sonny would still be our quarterback.

McNabb in his prime is better than those guys. McNabb has a better resume as far as stats goes, but he didn't have a better career as a Skin than the guys you mentioned.

[P007]

they both have the same number of rings.

McNabb's "success" is only "successful" to people like Eagle or Bills fans, who think Almost is good enough.

Just like Joe Banner said this summer on the radio up in Philly that he believes his eagles are more successful than the Steelers this decade because the Steelers have only won two Super Bowls, while the Eagles have won five division titles.

This is the type of ridiculously delusional reasoning that shows McNabb as a "success".

McNabb = Old dog

New tricks are not going to be his strength.

It's a shame we had to pay so much to find this out. The Vikings won't go anywhere with him either, and they didn't lose as much.

~Bang

Not everybody wins a superbowl. Just because he didn't win a superbowl doesn't mean he wasn't a successful quarterback.

[pjfootballer]

Our defense will take some not so subtle shots at McNabb in December.

[tiger187126]

Our defense will take some not so subtle shots at McNabb in December.

if he's still starting. i kind of wish we played them earlier in the year.

[Mad Mike]

Our defense will take some not so subtle shots at McNabb in December.

Ya know, in all the years we faced McNugget, I never thought of him as a threat. In fact, I always believed he would throw a pick to us or throw one into the dirt on a crucial third down.

I'm really going to enjoy watching our new and improved D tear him up this year.

[P007]

14 TDs to 15 INTs

Your expectations are apparently lower than mine.

Well we can also say Shanny and Son sucked with the prediticable play calling and failure to be prepared in most of the games last year. Espcially in that coaching debacle on Monday night against the Eagles. You say McNabb sucked, but how many coaching matchups did Shanny win this year?

---------- Post added August-9th-2011 at 04:33 PM ----------

as has the pro bowl caliber qb label. Shanahan is a Redskin and is invested. mcnugget is not and his commitment last year wasnt definite. either way its over now. time to support those that are Redskins.

I support the team, but I don't have to agree with everything that is done by the organization. I am open minded, I am not a kool aid drinker.