www.sfexaminer.com: Donovan article, taking subtle shots at Coach Shanahan

[grego]

I'm not talking about McNabb's season here under a futile coaching staff. I'm taking his entire career into account. None of you QB's you listed have put the numbers or had the success/talent that McNabb has had. Gus Frerotte... lol

futile coaching staff?

ok.

[SocratesDC]

What does his career have to do with anything? Your entire argument is flawed, and I've already countered it before you even posted that.

And, just to check: Are you actually a Redskins fan? Doug Williams had the greatest Super Bowl performance of any player, ever. Mark Rypien led one of the top offenses, ever. I'd take either of them over McNabb nine times out of eight.

That's because you're a delusional homer who can't acknowledge anything outside of the mighty Redskins. I'm a diehard fan too, but I'm also realistic. You're acting like Donovan with the Eagles and Donovan with the Skins are two different people.

[KDawg]

That's because you're a delusional homer who can't acknowledge anything outside of the mighty Redskins. I'm a diehard fan too, but I'm also realistic. You're acting like Donovan with the Eagles and Donovan with the Skins are two different people.

Same person, different place, different skills necessary to succeed.

They were in different places and different organizations and different systems.

McNabb was never a fit, and should have never been traded for. I agree that the coaching staff screwed that one up.

And McNabb in Minnesota is different as well.

[NewCliche21]

That's because you're a delusional homer who can't acknowledge anything outside of the mighty Redskins. I'm a diehard fan too, but I'm also realistic. You're acting like Donovan with the Eagles and Donovan with the Skins are two different people.

A+ argument there, Socrates.

We're talking about performances as Redskins. McNabb was awful. Nobody was throwing the dirtballs but him. Nobody was consistently underthrowing receivers but him. You cite one game, which we lost, versus the entirety of the season. Chris Horton had a two-pick game a few years back. Best safety since Ken Houston, right?

McNabb with the Eagles has nothing to do with McNabb with the Redskins. He was abysmal in our uniform, so he was NOT the best quarterback that we've had since Joe Theismann.

I know that you've been here for a week, but when your arguments start out with "That's because you're a delusional homer" with an attempt to discredit someone, the irony is palpable.

[grego]

You cite one game, which we lost, versus the entirety of the season. Chris Horton had a two-pick game a few years back. Best safety since Ken Houston, right?

i was at the houston game. houston probably had the worst secondary in the NFL last year. and after about the first 5 minutes of the second half, we couldnt move the ball or score a point.

none of our other QB's could have done that? oh, boy. terrible example.

[SocratesDC]

A+ argument there, Socrates.

We're talking about performances as Redskins. McNabb was awful. Nobody was throwing the dirtballs but him. Nobody was consistently underthrowing receivers but him. You cite one game, which we lost, versus the entirety of the season. Chris Horton had a two-pick game a few years back. Best safety since Ken Houston, right?

McNabb with the Eagles has nothing to do with McNabb with the Redskins. He was abysmal in our uniform, so he was NOT the best quarterback that we've had since Joe Theismann.

I know that you've been here for a week, but when your arguments start out with "That's because you're a delusional homer" with an attempt to discredit someone, the irony is palpable.

He's better than Shane Matthews.

[KDawg]

He's better than Shane Matthews.

Not by much in a 'Skins uniform, but yes, on a whole, he was:

Shane Matthews: 8 games, 7 started.

52.3% comp rate

1251 yards

5.3 YPA

11 TD

6 INT

72.6 rating.

McNabb:

58.3% (advantage, McNabb)

3,377 yards (advantage, McNabb)

7.2 YPA (advantage, McNabb)

14 TD (When broken down into TD/game: Advantage: Matthews)

15 INT (When broken down into INT/game: Advantage: Matthews)

77.1 rating (advantage: McNabb)

I'd also argue that as bad as we were last year, Matthews had a worse offensive supporting cast. Though, his line was pretty damned good.

[SWFLSkins]

I'm not talking about McNabb's season here under a futile coaching staff. I'm taking his entire career into account. None of you QB's you listed have put the numbers or had the success/talent that McNabb has had. Gus Frerotte... lol

Somehow I don't think your definition of success is the same as most others.

[illone]

I think BOTH guys are correct.

But at the end of the day who traded to get McNabb here?

Slight edge to McNabb on this one although he isn't helping himself by making veiled criticism.

[2cents]

Of course, McNabb never stops for one second to think that maybe he was stubborn in not listening to the coaches and working on the things that maybe he needed to do to be a better player. Of course, it was those stupid coaches who don't know anything trying to teach him something. Wonder if he hung out with Iverson while they were in Philly.....practice...man we're talking practice!!!!

[NewCliche21]

Of course, McNabb never stops for one second to think that maybe he was stubborn in not listening to the coaches and working on the things that maybe he needed to do to be a better player. Of course, it was those stupid coaches who don't know anything trying to teach him something. Wonder if he hung out with Iverson while they were in Philly.....practice...man we're talking practice!!!!

It's a little from column A and a little from column B. Unfortunately for McNabb, his column isn't in charge.

[onedrop]

dear mcnugget,

stfu.

[Bang]

I'm not talking about McNabb's season here under a futile coaching staff. I'm taking his entire career into account. None of you QB's you listed have put the numbers or had the success/talent that McNabb has had. Gus Frerotte... lol

they both have the same number of rings.

McNabb's "success" is only "successful" to people like Eagle or Bills fans, who think Almost is good enough.

Just like Joe Banner said this summer on the radio up in Philly that he believes his eagles are more successful than the Steelers this decade because the Steelers have only won two Super Bowls, while the Eagles have won five division titles.

This is the type of ridiculously delusional reasoning that shows McNabb as a "success".

McNabb = Old dog

New tricks are not going to be his strength.

It's a shame we had to pay so much to find this out. The Vikings won't go anywhere with him either, and they didn't lose as much.

~Bang

[Mad Mike]

I'm sorry but I just have to say, the hate here for Shanahan and what he has done so far is just moronic.

If over a decade of inmates running the asylum into the ground hasn't taught you that coddling big name, over hyped players leads to nothing but disaster, then maybe any game more complicated than tick tack toe is beyond you. Thanks to the idiocy of Vinny Cerrato (AKA Wormtongue) this team was a damned wreck when Shanahan took over.

He came in blind (no one could possibly imagine how ****** up this team was without seeing it for themselves), and he made two mistakes, both understandable. FIrst he did what most good coaches would do and try to bring in a capable QB. McNabb was dangling out there and he took a shot on him thinking he could correct some flaws and take him to the next level. Thankfully he and Allen were smart enough to not commit to a long term contract because McNabb's ego prevented him from trying to learn anything new. In his McMind, he was a pro bowler and he didn't need to change anything. A stupid position to take for any QB who made only one Superbowl with many talented teams and failed miserably when given the chance to truly be great. There are plenty of accounts to back it up. He wouldn't work hard and it showed on the field.

When Shanahan finally pulled McNabb he made the mistake of trying to soft play it. And rather than just coming out to say McNabb was stinking up the joint he tried to save face for him with other excuses. McNabb was too stupid and had too much ego to take it and it blew up in both of their faces. Shanahan went on to do exactly what he needed to do. He evaluated Grossman over the next few games, knowing that if he let McNabb go, Gossman was to be the worst we would be playing with this year.

Shanahan's other mistake IMO was keeping Portis for one last year. He wanted to give him a chance and his contract was hard to dump so I understand it, but in doing so he kept the worst locker room influence on the team one year longer than he should have.

Now Shanahan is building a team in the mold of the most successful team of this decade, the New England Patriots. He's bringing in smart players, leaders, hard workers. They may not be the most talented guys, with the most hype. But all of them are very talented. Because pure talent without a brain and good work ethic is a recipe for disappointment and failure.

For anyone ragging on Shannahan for doing what needed to be done I say stick to fantasy football where statistics are the only thing you need to win. But if you want the Redskins to be a real football TEAM that can compete and be successful in the coming decade, you need to get on board with what Shannahan and Allen are doing.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

You know, way back a year last April, I argued vehemently with folk on here about what a good pick up McNabb was. We were in the midst of a complete new offense being installed, and a complete new regime setting about changing most everything that has gone before. The proven, savvy ol' veteran seemed the prefect pick-up and well worth a second and future 3/4 at the time after we tried so hard to draft Bradford but just didn't quite have enough ammo.

We all know how it turned out of course, and pretty quickly I was made to eat my words. You had the complete conundrum of him racking up the yards with a pretty good completion average, whilst to the naked eye he was low balling many a short pass, the QB's bread and butter; and selling many a receiver short on the deep ball which had always been his strong point. And his, and the O's performance as a whole in the red zone was utterly pathetic, to be REAL kind. (I believe we ended the year with the teams lowest red zone scoring % in 10 years,, which would of been even worse hadn't Rex fricking Grossman of all people upped it late on.). By the second half of the year, when his legs went and his overall performances went from bad to disastrous, it was painfully clear the experiment needed to end, and end fast. Throw in the very public, very pathetic four way spat between HC, OC, McNabb (classy guy my ASS!) and his agent; and from those optimistic cry's of April 2010 I now would put the trade up against anything as one of the costliest, most disastrous trades the organizations EVER made.

Why am I recounting all that and reliving my folly? Because I'm blown away reading through this thread, on top of others this summer since we traded his done ass (and I firmly believe he is done as a genuine starter in this league. He'll be clipboard holding before the clocks go back in the Fall IMHO); by folk that steadfastly both refuse to admit just what a mistake the whole ordeal was; and Donovan's major part there in. He might not of been helped out by our boneheaded OC, but the dudes own performance was sub standard where it mattered. And to hear strong rumours of your QB changing the plays sent into him just adds to what a complete joke the whole affair was.

Seriously, just how hard is it to hold your hand up, admit you were wrong, and acknowledge what a cluster **** the whole sorry McNabb affair was.

To carry on blindly defending his time in DC in the face of everything to the contrary makes you look complete stubborn morons, to be REAL kind.

Hail

[Bang]

Well said GHH.

I'm in the same position as you in having to eat my conviction of it being a good move.

Shanahan showed real leadership by being able to do the same, at a much steeper price than just a little personal pride.

There is still much to be done, and I am not feeling like we're ready to crawl out of the cellar yet. But we will if he's given the time it takes to completely revamp such a horribly mismanaged franchise.

~Bang

[authentic]

I'm sorry but I just have to say, the hate here for Shanahan and what he has done so far is just moronic.

If over a decade of inmates running the asylum into the ground hasn't taught you that coddling big name, over hyped players leads to nothing but disaster, then maybe any game more complicated than tick tack toe is beyond you. Thanks to the idiocy of Vinny Cerrato (AKA Wormtongue) this team was a damned wreck when Shanahan took over.

He came in blind (no one could possibly imagine how ****** up this team was without seeing it for themselves), and he made two mistakes, both understandable. FIrst he did what most good coaches would do and try to bring in a capable QB. McNabb was dangling out there and he took a shot on him thinking he could correct some flaws and take him to the next level. Thankfully he and Allen were smart enough to not commit to a long term contract because McNabb's ego prevented him from trying to learn anything new. In his McMind, he was a pro bowler and he didn't need to change anything. A stupid position to take for any QB who made only one Superbowl with many talented teams and failed miserably when given the chance to truly be great. There are plenty of accounts to back it up. He wouldn't work hard and it showed on the field.

When Shanahan finally pulled McNabb he made the mistake of trying to soft play it. And rather than just coming out to say McNabb was stinking up the joint he tried to save face for him with other excuses. McNabb was too stupid and had too much ego to take it and it blew up in both of their faces. Shanahan went on to do exactly what he needed to do. He evaluated Grossman over the next few games, knowing that if he let McNabb go, Gossman was to be the worst we would be playing with this year.

Shanahan's other mistake IMO was keeping Portis for one last year. He wanted to give him a chance and his contract was hard to dump so I understand it, but in doing so he kept the worst locker room influence on the team one year longer than he should have.

Now Shanahan is building a team in the mold of the most successful team of this decade, the New England Patriots. He's bringing in smart players, leaders, hard workers. They may not be the most talented guys, with the most hype. But all of them are very talented. Because pure talent without a brain and good work ethic is a recipe for disappointment and failure.

For anyone ragging on Shannahan for doing what needed to be done I say stick to fantasy football where statistics are the only thing you need to win. But if you want the Redskins to be a real football TEAM that can compete and be successful in the coming decade, you need to get on board with what Shannahan and Allen are doing.

AMEN brother!!

[LUCKYMAN]

I agree with Mad Mike that the hate and criticism of Shanahan is unfounded. It seems like there are a lot of so called "experts" here on this board who can make all the right moves and see into the "past" clearly. Most of you are just rattling off your opinion of the "past" moves, claiming that you knew it all the time.

It may be more constructive and make for a better forum if you just state your opinion of what guys and coaches will do in the upcoming Pittsburgh game, so in that way, we can discuss your thoughts and then on Saturday we can see if you really know what you are talking about.

I for one am very happy to have a disciplinarian take over the team and I am happy as hell to have Allen as the GM to make sure that everything is future based.

[skinsince72]

McNabb has the luxury to spew off like this because he knows MS won't put together a low light reel of why he benched McNabb and show it to the world. You also won't see ESPN or NFL Network showing anything like that either. Telling the qb to widen his base a little more often so his throws are more accurate isn't asking a vet to conform to "your way". It's qb basics.

In six months, people will be saying that MS saw what others should have seen.

[KDawg]

I agree with Mad Mike that the hate and criticism of Shanahan is unfounded. It seems like there are a lot of so called "experts" here on this board who can make all the right moves and see into the "past" clearly. Most of you are just rattling off your opinion of the "past" moves, claiming that you knew it all the time.

It may be more constructive and make for a better forum if you just state your opinion of what guys and coaches will do in the upcoming Pittsburgh game, so in that way, we can discuss your thoughts and then on Saturday we can see if you really know what you are talking about.

I for one am very happy to have a disciplinarian take over the team and I am happy as hell to have Allen as the GM to make sure that everything is future based.

It's not unfounded. It was a bad move to bring McNabb here.

Overcriticism is the word I use. He should be held accountable for the poor move. But, it was one move. His other moves, as of late, have been much better. He shouldn't be condemned by any stretch of the imagination.

[NewCliche21]

You know, way back a year last April, I argued vehemently with folk on here about what a good pick up McNabb was. We were in the midst of a complete new offense being installed, and a complete new regime setting about changing most everything that has gone before. The proven, savvy ol' veteran seemed the prefect pick-up and well worth a second and future 3/4 at the time after we tried so hard to draft Bradford but just didn't quite have enough ammo.

We all know how it turned out of course, and pretty quickly I was made to eat my words. You had the complete conundrum of him racking up the yards with a pretty good completion average, whilst to the naked eye he was low balling many a short pass, the QB's bread and butter; and selling many a receiver short on the deep ball which had always been his strong point. And his, and the O's performance as a whole in the red zone was utterly pathetic, to be REAL kind. (I believe we ended the year with the teams lowest red zone scoring % in 10 years,, which would of been even worse hadn't Rex fricking Grossman of all people upped it late on.). By the second half of the year, when his legs went and his overall performances went from bad to disastrous, it was painfully clear the experiment needed to end, and end fast. Throw in the very public, very pathetic four way spat between HC, OC, McNabb (classy guy my ASS!) and his agent; and from those optimistic cry's of April 2010 I now would put the trade up against anything as one of the costliest, most disastrous trades the organizations EVER made.

Why am I recounting all that and reliving my folly? Because I'm blown away reading through this thread, on top of others this summer since we traded his done ass (and I firmly believe he is done as a genuine starter in this league. He'll be clipboard holding before the clocks go back in the Fall IMHO); by folk that steadfastly both refuse to admit just what a mistake the whole ordeal was; and Donovan's major part there in. He might not of been helped out by our boneheaded OC, but the dudes own performance was sub standard where it mattered. And to hear strong rumours of your QB changing the plays sent into him just adds to what a complete joke the whole affair was.

Seriously, just how hard is it to hold your hand up, admit you were wrong, and acknowledge what a cluster **** the whole sorry McNabb affair was.

To carry on blindly defending his time in DC in the face of everything to the contrary makes you look complete stubborn morons, to be REAL kind.

Hail

For the record:

You were right. I was wrong.

---------- Post added August-6th-2011 at 07:47 PM ----------

It's not unfounded. It was a bad move to bring McNabb here.

Overcriticism is the word I use. He should be held accountable for the poor move. But, it was one move. His other moves, as of late, have been much better. He shouldn't be condemned by any stretch of the imagination.

I think what most people miss is that the worst move that Shanahan could have made would be to have kept McNabb in the game to prove that it was a good move.

He did what was best for the team. Nobody seems to give him credit for that.

[JoeSkins]

He did what was best for the team. Nobody seems to give him credit for that.

To play devil's advocate for a second...

Why should anyone be impressed with his good damage control when he's the one who created the damage?

[NewCliche21]

To play devil's advocate for a second...

Why should anyone be impressed with his good damage control when he's the one who created the damage?

Knew this was coming.

It's demonstrative of his lack of ego and willingness to put the team first. You don't see that with what we had before. Hell, Vinny said a couple of weeks ago that he'd still hire Haynesworth. Shanahan made a bad move and he admitted it. Bad moves are made by every team, but rectifying it takes some cojones that we haven't seen in a long, long time.

I guess that I'd rather see a mistake followed by an indication of a massive change of culture rather than a desperate attempt to prove that a poor decision wasn't so bad.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

For the record:

You were right. I was wrong..

How so man? I'm a little lost on that one. I was wrong surely?

Hail.

[JoeSkins]

Knew this was coming.

It's demonstrative of his lack of ego and willingness to put the team first. You don't see that with what we had before. Hell, Vinny said a couple of weeks ago that he'd still hire Haynesworth. Shanahan made a bad move and he admitted it. Bad moves are made by every team, but rectifying it takes some cojones that we haven't seen in a long, long time.

I guess that I'd rather see a mistake followed by an indication of a massive change of culture rather than a desperate attempt to prove that a poor decision wasn't so bad.

Continuing the position which I don't actually hold....

How about a little foresight and research before making a personnel decision that costs a high draft pick and results in the acquisition of a player who clearly just doesn't fit? Would you prefer that? You can't spill the milk and then take pride in how well you clean it up. Well, politicians can, but not football coaches!