Rollingstone.com: The Kill Team, How U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan murdered innocent civilians and mutilated their corpses – and how their officers failed to stop them.

[No_Pressure]

In WW2 my grandfather held a corporal in his company at gunpoint and threatened to kill him after he shot a German soldier who was surrendering to them.

He was going to kill one of his fellow soldiers for killing a surrendering prisoner from the opposing army, the way he told it to me he really would have killed the guy and rejoiced that the man in question supposedly "got his" - the Germans sent some prisoners out to surrender, the guy fired at the prisoners, and a German sniper killed the man...oh and his nickname was "trigger".

I can't imagine how anybody could just go along with this Gibbs guy and murder people for fun. Who gives a **** if you think they're savages or not, a human is a human and murder is murder. I can't imagine that if I were in the military and I witnessed this same thing I wouldn't simply kill the Sgt. outright. What a disgusting human being, this makes that movie casualties of war seem like Michael J. Fox's character was simply overreacting.

[Mad Mike]

Basically we train kids to be killers, turn them into heavily armed ruthless murderers.

And when some inevitably go off the deep end, we act all shocked.

It's a natural by product of having soldiers.

~Bang

NO. IT IS NOT.

It is a bi-product of human fallibility present in the entire population. Soldiers are simply not immune. You want proof? Look at the violent crime rate of the civilian population and compare it to the military.

The scumbags that did this piss me off. Not only for the outright evil of their actions but because they betrayed the US, our honor, and our goals in the region. But reading this thread pisses me off too. The US isn't evil. Nor is the army. Our cause in Afghanistan is just and the mission is important. If you take every wrong deed by a US soldier, none of which is condoned and compare it to the evil the Taliban has inflicted on the Afghan population as a matter of policy, guess which one comes out worse by a LONG shot. The Taliban are not Afghanistan. They are the original invaders and they promote policies like throwing acid in the faces of children for going to school. But I guess that's OK with some people as long as they don't have to hear about it. For some people *we* are the evil ones for trying to help the true Afghans create a stable, peaceful environment and cleaning up one of the most dangerous terrorist havens in the world.

What these scumbags did was evil. They deserve our anger and they deserve to be hung. But to use their actions to try to paint the entire military and the US as monsters is just ignorant.

---------- Post added October-29th-2011 at 04:49 AM ----------

To act like you KNOW this was not a widespread issue is also kind of disingenous. There is plenty in that story to suggest that lots of people turned a blind eye, either intentionally or unwittingly. Either way is not good.

Oh bull****. This is the rolling ****ing stone. Try reading other sources. The guy behind this threatened to kill anyone who talked. He didn't make that threat because he thought anyone would "turn a blind eye".

From the article....

The images – more than 150 of which have been obtained by Rolling Stone – portray a front-line culture among U.S. troops in which killing innocent civilians is seen as a cause for celebration. “Most people within the unit disliked the Afghan people,” one of the soldiers told Army investigators. “Everyone would say they’re savages.”

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/photos/the-kill-team-photos-20110327#ixzz1c8sx1BE5

Note the implication that this is a widespread problem even as the following sentence identifies the activities as being within "the unit". Note that "the unit" is a platoon.

In another paragraph they mislead the reader again by saying "On January 15th, 2010, U.S. soldiers in Bravo Company stationed near Kandahar executed an unarmed Afghan boy named Gul Mudin in the village of La Mohammad Kalay." While the platoon was technically a part of bravo company, the entire company was not involved. A more accurate description would have been to say "On January 15th, 2010, the platoon lead by Staff Sgt. Calvin Gibbs stationed near Kandahar executed an unarmed Afghan boy named Gul Mudin in the village of La Mohammad Kalay."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/28/us/afghan-sport-killings-court-martial/index.html?hpt=us_c1

Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington (CNN) -- It didn't take long for Staff Sgt. Calvin Gibbs to make an impression on his soldiers.

Gibbs, the new leader of 3rd Platoon, part of the Army's 5th Stryker Brigade, had served a previous tour in Iraq and another in Afghanistan, and at 6 feet 4 inches and 220 pounds, towered over most of the platoon members.

Gibbs took over the platoon, stationed in Kandahar Province, Afghanistan, in November, 2009. It was a low point for the group: A massive roadside bomb had injured their previous leader and left the team rattled. Gibbs wasn't rattled though.

And, as several of his fellow soldiers would later testify, Gibbs promised his men they would have a chance to exact revenge on the "savages," referring to the Afghan civilian population they were meant to protect.

Nearly two years later, Gibbs, 26, faces a military court martial on Friday for numerous charges, including the murder of three Afghan civilians.

He is the highest ranking soldier charged in what prosecutors say was a rogue "kill squad" that allegedly targeted Afghan civilians and made the deaths look like casualties of Taliban counterattacks.

He has also been charged with removing body parts from his alleged victims, such as teeth and fingers, to keep as souvenirs; planting "drop weapons" to fake attacks on soldiers; and intimidating several of his own unit members from speaking out against the unit's alleged murder plots and rampant drug use.

The unraveling of the alleged "kill squad" came about not from targeting Afghans but after prosecutors said Gibbs organized an attack on a fellow soldier.

Three days after prosecutors say Gibbs killed Mullah Allah Dad, he and six other soldiers confronted Pfc. Justin Stoner. The soldiers were furious at Stoner for ratting them out for abusing drugs.

According to prosecutors, several of the soldiers used Stoner's room to smoke hashish they bought from Afghan translators. Stoner, according to prosecutors, was afraid he would shoulder all the blame for the drug abuse and complained to superiors

The soldiers began to beat Stoner, prosecutors charged. After the alleged stomp down, according to prosecutors, Gibbs showed Stoner fingers he allegedly cut off the corpses of dead Afghan men

The alleged threat backfired though and Stoner soon was talking about the drug abuse, the beating and killings of civilians to investigators.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/14/griffin.afghan.murder.soldiers.investigation/index.html

This photo from the U.S. Army shows Sgt. Calvin Gibbs' tattoos that are suspected to represent his "kills."

CNN has obtained investigators' photos of the tattoos clearly showing skulls and cross bones. One soldier, not charged, said Gibbs "associates with skinheads online.

"It's scary because they are worse than most gang members I've met," the soldier told investigators.

The photos are included in over 1,000 pages of evidence compiled by the Army and turned over to attorneys. They include witnesses' statements and depict a platoon where Gibbs ruled -- and anyone who didn't follow his rules believed they could end up like Stoner.

"I take that man very seriously," Spc. Adam Winfield told investigators in his videotaped confession. "He likes to kill things. He is pretty much evil incarnate. I mean I have never met a man who can go from one minute joking around then mindless killings. I mean he likes to kill things."

Note the correct reference to "the platoon" as used by responsible journalists.

[Madison Redskin]

];8648242']Why does it matter what they've done? They'll never pay for their misdeeds.

You do realize that they're facing lengthy jail sentences' date=' right?

];8648242']They'll be proclaimed in public, revered even.

Um, no they won't. That's a pretty ridiculous claim to make. Find me one newspaper article, op-ed, etc. praising what these guys did.

];8648242']I'd stop and wonder how many of our Hero Soldiers were like this' date=' but I'm afraid the number would just be depressing.[/quote']

What makes you think a depressing number of our troops are "like this?" Finally, is it difficult to breathe and talk when your shoulders are touching your sphincter?

[twa]

];8648242']

I'd stop and wonder how many of our Hero Soldiers were like this' date=' but I'm afraid the number would just be depressing.[/quote']

Well we certainly wouldn't want you to strain your mental capacity....probably best not to attempt it.

[Jumbo]

Well we certainly wouldn't want you to strain your mental capacity....probably best not to attempt it.

I think some serious strain is exactly what's needed there, but hey, what do I know.

---------- Post added October-29th-2011 at 08:26 AM ----------

Finally, is it difficult to breathe and talk when your shoulders are touching your sphincter?

Thank you for such a delightful image to go with my morning coffee.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I'm glad I read the last page of this thread after reading the 1st page.

[DeaconTheVillain]

I think we all know someone who, ever since being a little kid, wanted nothing more than to be a solider and kill someone. There are some people who would be classified as psychopaths in the Military (Marines especially). For people like this, joining the military is just an excuse to have the oportunity to kill.

[skinfan133]

Wow. I'm speechless. I was aware of this, but I was under the impression like many that this was a secretive group and that it wasn't widespread or well-known. This looks really, really bad for the Army. We need ethical leaders in the Army more than ever it seems. From NCOs to officers.

[btfoom]

Now the pics in this article are pretty graphic, but it is a very disturbing story, following up from last year arrests of all these guys

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-kill-team-20110327

Sorry, but Rolling Stone is just this side of MoveOn.org. The stories there are extremely one sided and can't be believed by anyone who wants to see the actual truth.

[Madison Redskin]

Sorry, but Rolling Stone is just this side of MoveOn.org. The stories there are extremely one sided and can't be believed by anyone who wants to see the actual truth.

How about the US Army, which is prosecuting these turds? Or how about the defendants themselves, almost all of whom have confessed?

[da#1skinsfan]

I don't doubt atrocities occur in war, on all sides, quite often. However given this particular publications leftward tendencies and clear sensationalization attempts throughout this article....I absolutely believe the truth lies somewhere in between what was written and "we didn't do it." The attempts to direct your opinion are clear as day throughout the entire article, and when I see that, no matter that author, red flags go up and I question the intent of the writer and the truth they are conveying.

[Madison Redskin]

I don't doubt atrocities occur in war, on all sides, quite often. However given this particular publications leftward tendencies and clear sensationalization attempts throughout this article....I absolutely believe the truth lies somewhere in between what was written and "we didn't do it." The attempts to direct your opinion are clear as day throughout the entire article, and when I see that, no matter that author, red flags go up and I question the intent of the writer and the truth they are conveying.

I agree RS is a liberal rag, but that's totally beside the point. The soldiers who committed these crimes we exposed ... by another soldier ... and subsequently confessed ... and pled guilty to some horrendous crimes.

So, regardless of what anyone thinks about RS, it's pretty hard to deny that these dudes did some pretty twisted **** and gleefully took photos of the civilians they killed.

[da#1skinsfan]

I agree RS is a liberal rag, but that's totally beside the point. The soldiers who committed these crimes we exposed ... by another soldier ... and subsequently confessed ... and pled guilty to some horrendous crimes.

So, regardless of what anyone thinks about RS, it's pretty hard to deny that these dudes did some pretty twisted **** and gleefully took photos of the civilians they killed.

Dont disagree at all. Just saying that the real truth and extent of what is going on likely is not contained anywhere within that article.

[twa]

Wow. I'm speechless. I was aware of this, but I was under the impression like many that this was a secretive group and that it wasn't widespread or well-known. This looks really, really bad for the Army. We need ethical leaders in the Army more than ever it seems. From NCOs to officers.

How widespread do you believe it is?

A single breakdown at the platoon leadership level or more?(seems a small secretive group to me)

[Wrong Direction]

I think we all know someone who, ever since being a little kid, wanted nothing more than to be a solider and kill someone. There are some people who would be classified as psychopaths in the Military (Marines especially). For people like this, joining the military is just an excuse to have the oportunity to kill.

No. We don't all know psychopaths and you likely do not either. Wanting to join the military does not equate with looking for an excuse to kill someone.

[Larry]

No. We don't all know psychopaths and you likely do not either. Wanting to join the military does not equate with looking for an excuse to kill someone.

Agree with your first sentence. I suspect that psychopath is a label that we toss around way too freely.

But pointing out. He didn't equate Marine with psychopath. His argument is more along the lines that if a person IS a psychopath, then there are relatively few professions where you get to kill people.

[twa]

Relatively few US military personnel get to kill people, and the military actively works to screen psychopaths out(as do other professions dealing in use of force)

[Larry]

I would certainly hope so.

Shrink? I wanna kill.

I mean, eat dead, burnt, bodies with veins in my teeth.

I mean kill.

[DeaconTheVillain]

No. We don't all know psychopaths and you likely do not either. Wanting to join the military does not equate with looking for an excuse to kill someone.

Of course it doesn't. I said some people join the military because they want to be a solider and want to kill.

[skinfan133]

How widespread do you believe it is?

A single breakdown at the platoon leadership level or more?(seems a small secretive group to me)

From what it said in the article it seems like similar actions may have been taking place throughout the company, maybe even throughout the battalion. What concerns me is that no officer or NCO came forward about the clear issues going on. Perhaps just as worse might be that lower level soldiers felt that they couldn't come forward to their NCOs or officers. That is the leadership failure that I'm talking about. Ethical leadership could have prevented this problem.

[twa]

Oh I agree when a NCO goes bad his superiors should catch it(which these did not seem to do)

But then that is easier said than done if it is simply at platoon level and sanctioned by the NCO himself

the spreading thin of the troops in areas necessitates more room for it escaping notice until a platoon member turns them in.

add

I won't get into mays,no more than I will Birther crap

Evidence...not rumors,rule

[NoCalMike]

I can accept that there will always be bad apples among a large group of people. The issue is when those bad apples are covered up for, or given a slap on the wrist or who's actions are overlooked due to suppress the story and act as if this stuff isn't happening.

If it happened, find them, punish them appropriately and at least it shows this will not be tolerated.

[Mad Mike]

From what it said in the article it seems like similar actions may have been taking place throughout the company, maybe even throughout the battalion. What concerns me is that no officer or NCO came forward about the clear issues going on. Perhaps just as worse might be that lower level soldiers felt that they couldn't come forward to their NCOs or officers. That is the leadership failure that I'm talking about. Ethical leadership could have prevented this problem.

That's because the article was written to mislead you into that false impression. Try reading other sources. See post #152

[gbear]

I look at this case as another case where a depraved person or persons worked to put themselves in a position to provide maximum gratification with the least perceived threat. There are some who absolutely get off on the power to take a life. Others get off on pedophelia or rape. There are all kind of power seekers, and we shouldn't be surprised when they show up amongst clergy, police, teachers, politicians or soldiers. These are jobs which convey a certain prestige or statues often allowing for abuse. Hell, many need the abuse to prove to themselves they have the power. Others need only know they have the power without actually using it.

So I look at it as every society has people with these huge power needs. Their needs are sick, but having them makes their choice of profession make sense. Note, at no point do I say everyone in those positions has these predispositions. It's just having them makes the choice of profession more likely. I worry many in the press will take the "Every soldier, police officer, teacher, etc." is like these guys jump in logic. It would be a mistake. Also note, I have no simpathy for the killers. I tend to think we should refuse to shelter them from local justice for their deeds and turn over all evidence we have.

[China]

Soldier admits taking war trophies, denies murder

JOINT BASE LEWIS-MCCHORD, Wash. (AP) — An Army staff sergeant described by a comrade as "evil incarnate" cut fingers off the corpses of three Afghan civilians — but he had nothing to do with any plot to slaughter those unarmed men for sport, his lawyer said Monday.

A court martial opened for Staff Sgt. Calvin Gibbs, of Billings, Mont., who has pleaded not guilty to 16 criminal charges ranging from murder to taking the fingers as bloody mementos. He maintains that, as far as he knew, the three killings early last year were legitimate engagements — and that his co-defendants conspired to blame him when they got caught.

"What you are seeing in this case is the ultimate betrayal of an infantryman," Gibbs' attorney, Phil Stackhouse, told jurors in his opening statement.

In some of the most gruesome allegations to emerge from the Afghan war, prosecutors say Gibbs and his co-defendants slaughtered the victims with grenades and powerful machine guns during patrols in Kandahar province, then dropped weapons near their bodies to make them appear to have been combatants.

Of the five soldiers charged as part of the so-called "kill team" within the platoon, three have pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against Gibbs, who faces up to life in prison without parole if convicted.

Gibbs, 26, is the highest-ranking of those charged. Others in the unit, including some of his co-defendants, portrayed him as an imposing sociopath with little respect for life — a man who gunned down dogs without provocation, threatened fellow soldiers and who tallied his kills with skull tattoos on his calves.

Another lead figure in the plot, Pvt. Jeremy Morlock, testified Monday that Gibbs played with the corpse of the first victim, a teenager, as if it was a puppet. The jurors were shown graphic photographs, including one in which Morlock stood over the victim's body and held up his head as though he had just bagged a deer.

Click on the link for the full article