The conclusion, why I think we should have a lot of hope for 2011

[skull1669]

Yea, we lost 10 games and only won 6. And yea, some of those 6 wins were down to the last second, but a lot of those losses were down to the last second too (ie:Texans game, Bucs game). Anyways. and this is just my opinion, I think since Rex Grossman took over this team has looked tons better. Call me crazy, but I really think he has, and Ill tell you why. Heart.

From the days in Philly I used to always say Mcnabb has amazing skill but just aboslutely no heart, it was like he didnt ever care if they won or lost. This translates into the field, people say Mcnabbs a great leader etc etc, but just because he was close with the team doesnt mean he was giving them that extra drive to win games. Grossman I think gave them that at the end stretch, he wanted to win, he got excited when he made a good play and he got mad when he made a bad play. He pumped the team up, something I never saw Mcnabb do.

Im not saying Grossman is our QB of the future, because hes not. But at least I see what a QB who wants to win can do. Imagine now if we had someone with Grossmans hunger to play and the skill of a Mcnabb. We'd be set. Grossman threw for like 350ish, 2 tds and a int yesterday, and he had 2 fumbles. Hes definitly not our QB of the future. But the thing is, and you know you admit this, the past 3 games Grossmans been in, you know we've felt we had a chance to win the whole time.

My point is this, trade Mcnabb, somehow do what we can to try and get Luck, if Lucks not there, Locker may fall into our laps, and if both arent available, ride grossman out until next year where get to draft again. I really hope we do get Luck or even Locker. Locker could be a monster in the NFL in my opinion too. Ive also heard rumors that if they fire Turner in San Diego then Philly Rivers wants out.

There were other bright spots too. Torains the man, hes going to be our 1 RB for the next year or 2(then if history taught us anyhting, Shanny will trade him). Armstrong is really a great WR, he may not be a Andre Johnson or Fitzgerald, but he is good. Banks is a mini Devin Hester, this is a good thing. Trent Williams looked pretty good his first year, i was watching the St Louis/Seattle game last night and Okung just doesnt look nearly as good as Williams does. Fred Davis is going to be one of the top 5 TE's in the NFC next year in my opinion. Finally, our defense. Our defense has been awful this year, but the past couple games they've started to pull together. I think they can pull the 3-4 off especially when Landry comes back from injury. We have a lot of work to do, but I really hope we get a QB in the offseason.

Santana Moss is a true Redskin and I love him, that goes for Cooley too, but it may be time to trade them. If we trade them, Albert Haynesworth, Mcnabb, and Carter we could get some decent picks etc. Maybe we trade Dmac to AZ for 3-4rth rd and trade Panthers, 1st rd 2nd rd 3rd, Cooley and AH or Moss?

Sorry for wall of texts, but I think these last couple games gave us some hope for next year. Shanny has the team on track, now hes building from the bottom up.

LOL stopped reading after "Philly Rivers wants out" LOL

[JerseyGator]

QB is not the biggest problem on this team. Note even close. Both of the lines are very weak.

Grossman's not a world beat but he has beaten two SB QBs in the playoffs, which is more than probably most QBs can say. Cutler now has the same number of starts in Chicago that Grossman did and is more of a turnover machine than Grossman was, but the media considers Cutler elite/"can't miss." Even the Bears fans think he should be in the Pro Bowl this year.

QB analysis is so political these days. It's 80% reputation, 20% fact. Most QBs in the NFL only excel in certain systems.

[moondog]

People are hard on Grossman because he's... well, Rex Grossman... but overall I was impressed by him, especially considering how much pressure he was under -- his career was on the line the past three games. He does turn the ball over too much -- though at least two of turnovers were bad calls by the refs -- but he also finds the open receiver with ease and throws a very pretty ball. His teammates seem to be very high on him -- Moss and Cooley's silence regarding McNabb was very, very telling and has not been talked about nearly enough. I don't think there's a better bridge option out there than Rex. The people that do don't watch many NFL games. What journeyman out there will come in, learn the offense quickly, and throw for 300 yards a game?

Would like to find the QB of the future in the draft, but other than Luck all the prospects seem like a crapshoot. The guy in the fifth round may be better than the guy in the mid-first. Locker... God no.

Defense has nowhere to go but up. Did seem to improve by year's end.

I think will be better next year while expectations will be lower. The problem is our division. Philly and NY are managed so damn well. And Dallas has a world of talent. We're clearly the weakest team with the most holes.

Pray that we can find a sucker to give us something for Donny Mac and/or Fat Albert. I don't think we will. Donny has a big contract for a QB who appears to be close to done -- interested teams will probably just wait until we got him so they can sign him to a cheaper deal. And Fat Albert is Fat Albert. Everybody knows we're going to cut him so why trade for him?

This is a dead-on analysis.

Grossman is not all of a sudden the quarterback everyone's been hoping for. Pessimist's need to understand that most of those in favor of Grossman are not "buying in" to him being some miracle quarterback. He is simply a great bridge and a perfect short-term answer for us. The offense simply looked a hell of a lot better with him in there. Period. He threw some picks, but he scored a hell of a lot more than McNabb. His fumbles were all (but one) the result of poor blocking (whether players or coaches by having Cooley block Umenyiora one-on-one).

As stated above, there is no other journeyman out there (or McNabb) that is going to get more production out of this offense than Grossman. The guy is throwing for damn near 300 yards per game and multiple TD's. He's cheap, expectations are low and he's playing his ass off. No one is disillusioned and thinks he's a Pro-Bowler. But I want him more than McNabb, any QB we would get in FA and any guy we're going to get in the draft - Luck is an impossibility and Gabbert most likely is gone in the top 5 as well. That leaves us with guys like Locker and Newton and we'd be completely ****ed if we took them imo.

Most in favor of Grossman likely see it like this - give this team an outstanding front 7 defensive player (like Dareus, Von Miller or Kerrigan) from the first round, perhaps a guard or center from the second round, and add in Davin Joseph, a WR and a couple other solid pickups via FA. IF we are lucky and get some decent picks for Haynesworth/McNabb etc (4th/5th rounder probably at best) that's icing on top of the cake. You give us an upgraded defense that looked like it was learning to play the 3-4 at the end of the year, and an offense with perhaps another WR and a new O-lineman or two that really looked like it was coming together with the zone running game and Grossman can have some success.

We are not talking 12 wins, a division title, etc. Grossman supporters such as myself are saying this recipe is more favorable for the future than drafting a ****ty QB like Locker or Mallette, and wasting multiple years on him as well as the pick it took to get him. Surround Grossman with a talented, young team, if he plays well, great. At worst - he showed he'll get a lot of yards but turn the ball over - just like McNabb, we are a better team around him and he doesn't cost as much and we'll build the rest of the team up to a point where it's a solid team to hand the keys over to a young draft pick in the future.

[veteranskinsfan]

Dallas has a much better backup quarterback than Grossman and I hate to admit it. The back up should be capable of not only filling in for the injured starter but also be capable in the coaches eyes to challenge the starter. I think McNabb never felt challenged by Grossman at all. Now you bet next preseason, Romo sits to pee is going to feel pressured more than he was at the beginning of last preseason. I can't stand Dallas. Grossman is still committing turnovers like he did with Chicago. Gibbs was tough on quarterbacks who committed turnovers. He would simply not let them be the starter. How long can the Shanny's support Rex next year?

[scruffylookin]

Hysterical that Rex does something that has not been done by a Redskin QB in at least 40 years (throws for 300 in two of his first three starts) and there are still McNabb slurpers who call his performances "average".

I don't know if he's a long term solution, but the man should at least be given credit for coming in and doing a good job under tough circumstances. It's a hoot reading the same fools who were so sure Rex would be worse and stink up the joint worse than McNabb, now try and minimize what Rex did. Keep the laughs coming.

[grego]

Dallas has a much better backup quarterback than Grossman and I hate to admit it.

i think thats, in large part, to far superior talent around him. and i mean at, probably, every single position on offense.

if memory serves me correct, palmer took over for kitna right after kitna had a very good year there. i wasnt surprised to see kitna do well in that offense with their weapons. kitna would have gotten killed by now if he were mcnabbs backup.

The back up should be capable of not only filling in for the injured starter but also be capable in the coaches eyes to challenge the starter. I think McNabb never felt challenged by Grossman at all.

if he's here next year, i hope he doesnt make that same mistake.

[Hooper]

Dallas has a much better backup quarterback than Grossman and I hate to admit it. The back up should be capable of not only filling in for the injured starter but also be capable in the coaches eyes to challenge the starter. I think McNabb never felt challenged by Grossman at all. Now you bet next preseason, Romo sits to pee is going to feel pressured more than he was at the beginning of last preseason. I can't stand Dallas. Grossman is still committing turnovers like he did with Chicago. Gibbs was tough on quarterbacks who committed turnovers. He would simply not let them be the starter. How long can the Shanny's support Rex next year?

This is utter nonsense. Grossman outplayed Kitna and McGee could be good or a bust -- hasn't shown much yet.

People are harping about Grossman's turnovers. Few of them were flat-out on him. Also, he threw 7 tds in three games. If you want to harp on stats, that projects to close to 40 tds in a season.

[MumboSauce]

Calling you crazy since you asked to be. I don't totally disagree, it was obvious Rex has a better command for the offense than McNabb and even with that he's still very mediocre. I don't know how so many can get excited about how much better they looked when they lost the last 3/4 games and Rex still had plenty of turnovers in his 3 starts. You want to blame the O line? ok some blame falls there but squeeze the damn ball baby hands and have pocket awareness. They ran down Grossman vs McNabb's stats on the radio today and Grossmans was marginally better not soooooooooo much better as some of you seem to believe. Ok Look just in our division, Philly class of their own destroyed us, Giants? own us..Dallas? looked a lot better when Garrett took over. So if at the start of the season with McNabb, Shanahan, etc. you were told the team would improve by two games over Zorn, Sherm Lewis and Greg Blache and you're happy? it was a failure. ^^ That projected stats stuff based on a few games, are you serious?

I'm not in the opinion that a few good picks, free agents, another season, coaches learning personnel, etc. that things can't improve or get turned around. Other teams have done it..but there is a lot to overcome. Considering the talent? I think Shanahan did a pretty decent job with what he had and got something out of almost nothing. still a poor season, some bad decisions and play, and not one to remember. I personally don't feel all that much better going into this off season than I did the last one. Shanahan at least demands accountability and there is a culture change. I hope in time that translates into more wins somehow.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I love the Sex Cannon as much as anyone, but the guy is kind of awful. I mean, are we really going to seriously considering entering the season with him pegged as the starter? Isn't that basically saying, "We are going 7-9, and ain't nobody gonna stop us!"

We're in a division with Vick, Eli, and Romo sits to pee. We can't roll out Sexy Rexy and hope to compete.

It's not even that Rex throws picks in bunches or has tiny baby hands which cause him to fumble all the time. The fact is that he is a 55 percent passer at best. McNabb's big problem was always his inaccuracy and he was 4 percent better than Rex - without the turnovers and with some running ability.

You can't run this quasi West Coast thing that the Shanahan's run with a guy that can't be counted on to hit his receivers on a good day and who can't hold onto the ball on a bad day.

[grego]

i dont know that he would throw picks in bunches as a starter for a year in shannys O. i think his biggest problem is hes too damn short. cant see over the line and gets balls batted or cant see the whole D. but he may be the kind of qb that wins more with his smarts and cuts down on those negatives as he matures and is given a chance.

given his horrid line and WR's, he's probably exceeded most peoples expectations and would do well with and upgrade at those positions (not that any QB wouldnt, but the skins are probably near bottom of the league at both WR and O line....again)

[Thinking Skins]

I've lost any reason for hope in this team. Every year, I've hoped they would change and see the light and every year I'm disappointed with the results. Then I'm called names for being pessimistic and predicting a 6-10 season. Then we start off the season 2-0 in the division and people are singing Shanny's praises and saying how we'll be undefeated in the division. Unfortunately this team has some glaring holes, and depth is not the least of these problems. Its a problem that we've had for a long time. And unlike the Boston Celtics who were able to build a championship team around some big name FAs and getting lucky on a bunch of role players, this isn't the NBA and our roster has a lot more spots to fill. I feel like until we stop giving 90% of our money to 10% of the players we won't see much change. There will be occasional seasons where we're extremely lucky and don't get injured and all our FAs actually pan out, and we put up a 10 win season, but I've got no faith in this team returning to the glory days any time soon.

[Newera]

I agree with your optimism, but...

I dont think Rex has more heart. I think what we saw what happens when a QB actually listens to the O/C. I would also suggest that the Oline played moderately better during Rex under center, than McNabb. His two fumbles yesterday could be blamed either on him holding the ball too long, or trying to block Osi & Tuck with Cooley.

I think Moss stays and moves to the slot. That will require us getting a WR either through FA, or the draft.

I also think we are set at RB next year with Torain, and Williams. Our NT situation is now interesting. Bryant proved he can play, but I think we need to see more time from him. Perhaps it is not as high a priority now, which means we could look at a QB in the first round, and continue to rebuild the Oline.

I am excited by how Shanny found some key contributors without mortgaging the future. While we have payed dearly for the McNabb fiasco, it has been lessened to a degree by finding Torain, Armstrong, Williams, Carrikar, Bryant, Banks, etc.

Rex just got rid of the ball much faster then McNabb. And, made his reads faster. Thus the offensive line looked better. Osi abused both Cooley and Trent. Torrain is okay, but woefully slow going laterally. We need a more skilled elite back with some wiggle. Someone like Philly's McCoy. I like Ingram.

[Veretax]

The thing that makes me laugh is the idea that McNabb has more skill than Grossman. The only knock on Grossman is that he throws a few more INTs now and then. McNabb has a habbit of skipping the ball or not getting it out on time which I think is a bigger issue frankly.

[stoshuaj]

The reason you have hope is.........

you're a Skin's fan

and

you're on ES

it's the way things are done around here and it's the only reason for hope

[KDawg]

but the guy is kind of awful.

I'd argue against that. He's certainly not awful. He's productive with a propensity to make mistakes. He's a decent to good quarterback for this system. I think a lot of people here allow his time in Chicago to taint their perception of Grossman. His skills and talents fit this offense.

The main reasons he was more successful than McNabb is quite honestly that he seemed to listen to his offensive coordinator and that quite simply his tempo allowed the team to run more motions and shifts. That allows a quarterback the ability to diagnose a coverage scheme a bit easier' date=' and it allows for a bit more deception.

We're in a division with Vick, Eli, and Romo sits to pee. We can't roll out Sexy Rexy and hope to compete.

Who do we roll out, then? Trade for another aging vet? Sign Matt Hasselbeck? Even if we draft a guy chances are that Rex is the quarterback for at least the beginning of next season.

It's not even that Rex throws picks in bunches or has tiny baby hands which cause him to fumble all the time. The fact is that he is a 55 percent passer at best. McNabb's big problem was always his inaccuracy and he was 4 percent better than Rex - without the turnovers and with some running ability.

This is an inaccurate statement. Or a revisionist statement.

McNabb threw 15 interceptions in 13 starts. That's 1.15 a game. He threw 472 passes. That's a pick every 31 passes. He fumbled 10 times. Sure, he lost only one, but I believe fumbles are an indicator of a turnover, regardless, as some luck usually comes into play with who recovers it. But I guess that can be seen as being revisionist as well, but it's not, I've always believed that to be the case.

So going by my theory, thats 25 turnovers or turnover "like" plays by McNabb in 13 games. That's 1.92 times a game where we are losing the ball or we have the opportunity to lose the ball.

Rex Grossman fumbled four times (losing all four) and threw four picks in four games. That equates to 1 interception per game, which is less than McNabb. Including turnovers/turnover "like" plays, he equals out to 2.0 turnover or turnover like plays per game. That's .08 worse than McNabb. So McNabb has the advantage as a whole there.

To say that McNabb did it without the turnovers is incorrect. To say that McNabb and Grossman were similar in the turnover department is accurate.

You can't run this quasi West Coast thing that the Shanahan's run with a guy that can't be counted on to hit his receivers on a good day and who can't hold onto the ball on a bad day.

Long term you're correct. Short term, Grossman has played better than McNabb in one key stat: TD:INT ratio. 1.75:1 versus McNabb's .86:1 ratio. They are both turnover prone. If we're going to go with one, I'd rather go with the younger one who is on the same page as the coordinator that is open to change that plays with tempo versus the guy who played in one system for years upon years and isn't used to changing and doesn't want to listen to the coordinator.

But no, Grossman probably is not the answer for us. I agree there.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm not comparing Rex to McNabb this year. McNabb was awful this year. We never should have traded for him.

Saying that Rex is better than McNabb right now doesn't help anything.

The Skins need to find a better alternative at QB right now. They can't hope to pick up their guy in 2012.

[KDawg]

I'm not comparing Rex to McNabb this year. McNabb was awful this year. We never should have traded for him.

Saying that Rex is better than McNabb right now doesn't help anything.

The Skins need to find a better alternative at QB right now. They can't hope to pick up their guy in 2012.

I agree with this statement... Sort of. If we can't find youth at the quarterback position this year, then we HAVE to wait until 2012. Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme and those guys can't and won't cut it. Grossman is better for us than those guys would be.

But if we can acquire a young QB (Luck would be ideal, but not very realistic) without destroying our team, we need to.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I agree with this statement... Sort of. If we can't find youth at the quarterback position this year, then we HAVE to wait until 2012. Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme and those guys can't and won't cut it. Grossman is better for us than those guys would be.

But if we can acquire a young QB (Luck would be ideal, but not very realistic) without destroying our team, we need to.

At some point, we need a good QB. Shanahan is not the kind of coach who is going to be happy if in year 4, he's rolling out Charlie Whitehurst for a week 3 game against the Cowboys.

[Aquariuzzz]

Shannahan has to make a move for a QB. I don't care if he sits for a year or not... I don't think he is gonna make a move but I am scared that if he doesn't make a move for QB, we will be in the same position next year. I had trouble digesting the Mcnabb trade to begin with, having lived with Philly fans in Pennsylvania for 5 years during and after college. I am scared of Rexy being the guy going into next season without a guy in the wings, because when he makes a bad throw, its HORRENDOUS, or if he gets sacked, the ball is OUT! Getting Luck is a huge reach and risk, but luck might not even come out this year. He cant let this Mcnabb situation and Haynesworth situation define his time in Washington.

Whatever happened to evaluating Beck? Is he going to be back? has he shown anything better than Grossman?

[Crazy Levi]

We had a ****ton of close games in the Zorn era too. That didn't matter in the end.

And the Turner era.

Here's a clue - it's the NFL. Games are always going to be close.

I'm holding out "a lot of hope" till after the offseason. It's far too early to have any hope at all, let's see what happens.

[thewagen]

BAD TEAMS lose close games, period. 'Skins easily could have lost 3 more. They lost 7 games by 6 points or less last year under Zorn, and geezzzuss, they were being run by Bingo Smith on offense!!!!! GOOD TEAMS close out games and find a way to NOT keep games close late.

You say "Hope" and I say they don't have the horses. But in this I agree -- I think Cooley gets packaged in a deal (with McNABB, ACarter or whomever) for draft picks or another 'needs' player-OLine. 'Skins can survive with FDavis and LPaulsen at TE. And unless SMoss will play for Vet Minimum, say goodbye to him. Love him, but he's getting old.

My thoughts:

Package McNABB + Cooley and trade to Arizona for a swap of first round picks, plus Az's 2nd round pick, or

Package McNABB +ACarter, trade to Minnesota for a swap of 1st round picks, plus their second round pick,

Package AHaynesworth+Cooley, trade to Tennessee for a swap of 1st round picks, plus a 6th/7th from Tennessee, or

Cooley+ACarter for Carolina's 2nd round pick

[Riggo-toni]

We will improve to 8-8 next year, if for no other reason than a very easy schedule.

Torain certainly looks promising, but hasn't proven he can stay healthy. The other RBs including Williams don't look like much at all to me. Hopefully Armstrong will improve in his 2nd year, though he could be Shanny's Derrius Thompson. The OL has made big strides and I'm confident we'll draft/sign a couple more interior lineman. Grossman' hands are too small for an NFL QB. This leaves too many floaters ripe for INTs, and is exacerbated by bad weather.

Our defense could well go from bad to worse. As much as people here wail on Rogers for his stone hands, he is a top ten corner and much better at handling big WRs than Hall. If he leaves, our secondary gets exposed. Fletcher will be a year older. And Haslett will still be running the circus.

[Hooper]

Package McNABB + Cooley and trade to Arizona for a swap of first round picks, plus Az's 2nd round pick, or

Package McNABB +ACarter, trade to Minnesota for a swap of 1st round picks, plus their second round pick,

Package AHaynesworth+Cooley, trade to Tennessee for a swap of 1st round picks, plus a 6th/7th from Tennessee, or

Cooley+ACarter for Carolina's 2nd round pick

We all need to accept the fact that no one is going to give us squat for McNabb. There was very little interest in him last season. Now he's been exposed even more. Even if a team does want him, there's no way they're going to want to pay him like a franchise QB -- which is current deal does. No, they'll just wait for the Skins to cut him and sign him to a new deal.

I hope I'm wrong.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm trying to figure out why I have as little hope for this team right now as I ever have.

I'm at Spurrier Era level despondency at this point.

We have possibly the worst defense in football, no quarterback, and a division that seems pretty loaded with youth right now. The Giants had a "bad" year and somehow won 10 games.

I really see nothing to be positive about. Nothing.

[The Tris]

I really see nothing to be positive about. Nothing.

The lockout.