The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[RonArtest15]

The difference between the NFL and NBA is funny. In the NFL, JaMarcus Russell gets 3 years. In the NBA, one year in and the #2 overall pick is already being shopped. Is it that it's just easier to just KNOW in basketball?

I think the T-Wolves were never totally on board with Williams to begin with. Speaks volumes that they're already trying to move him...and another red-flag should have been raised when they wanted Javale McGee + #6 for the #2. Which we obviously turned down.

[Going Commando]

Still, besides QB, how many times are high draft picks in the NFL--any position--ditched after a single year? Or even two years (like Thabeet for example)?

Also another thing is how many rookies get traded on draft day. That is so rare in the NFL but swaps are pretty common during the NBA draft.

Most of the time, a rookie can't immediately help a contender in the NBA, so they are worth almost nothing to them. They'll deal a second overall pick for a veteran without batting an eye. But think about it in the NFL. That second overall pick could be an instant impact presence for a great NFL team. What if the Patriots or Steelers had gotten to draft Ndamukong Suh? How much would that have sucked... They would have coveted him almost as much as they would Brady/Roethlisberger.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The NFL is so specialized that it sometimes takes years for a player to a) find their role and learn that role.

You may draft a guy to a pass-rushing DE and find out that he is half a second too slow to do that in the NFL, but he would be a nightmare as a one gap DT. Except you don't use one-gap defensive tackles. So you alter your system or trade him. And once that is done, it takes a year or two to master that role.

In the NBA, you typically can rebound or you can't.

I actually think the big thing that causes guys in the NBA to flop is the simple act of playing hard. I think the criticism in the NFL that so-and-so doesn't play hard is generally silly. In college football and particularly the NFL, if you don't play hard, you end up in the hospital. Guys may not practice hard. They may not lift enough or run enough or watch their weight enough. But it's next to impossible to "float" through an NFL game.

Percy Jones III literally does not always play hard. It's pretty easy to float through a basketball game. Sometimes, you can float and still put up numbers.

It's just a different game.

There is also basic math involved here. NBA teams need 1 great player, 1 pretty good player, and 5 decent role players to make the playoffs. You achieve that roster as a GM, you have a job forever. You get 2 great players, you may get part ownership of your team. Your entire job is built around that narrow window. You don't want to waste time on a player you may take 3 years to develop and just end up your 4th best role player. You can eventually just sign a guy like that in the summer.

This has been my issue with the Wizards: How many young players can they develop at the same time? They have two top five picks who need their entire jump shot rebuilt. Everyone on the roster is under 23 and none of them are exactly Kevin Durant.

You typically want to be developing a star and maybe one other project. The Wizards have something resembling a 4th seed in the NCAA tourney right now.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Going Commando]

Guys take plays off in the NFL LKB, same as in basketball. It's more a mental thing than a physical thing. They go status quo instead of playing with intensity and concentration. Sure they are working their muscles hard and shoving on someone heavy or running a fast route, but that part is automatic for them. That doesn't mean they are really trying and focused.

Also easier to produce a burst of intensity when you get a 40 second break to gather yourself and plan your next movement. Basketball is all about pace and flow and momentum and a ton of unspoken communication/understanding.

[SuperBash]

Our 2nd rounder will be playing for the Summer League Team. I hope I can catch a game somewhere online or on TV.

[No Excuses]

I miss the days of Blatche and Young leading our summer league team to the championship.

Can we still send Dray to play in the summer league?

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I think the T-Wolves were never totally on board with Williams to begin with. Speaks volumes that they're already trying to move him...and another red-flag should have been raised when they wanted Javale McGee + #6 for the #2. Which we obviously turned down.

Williams has no position

they basically drafted SuperCoolBeas 2.0

I am still perplexed by the hype Williams got last year like we hadnt already seen that story

And the NFL analogy is off, Gaines Adams (RIP) was traded after his 2nd year. There are other examples, but he is the first one that came to my mind.

[Going Commando]

Williams has a definite NBA position: stretch 4. His game is classically designed for this role.

He's not going to get opportunities in Minny. This was predictable during the draft. Same as the Jazz drafting Kanter.

[Destino]

Williams has a definite NBA position: stretch 4. His game is classically designed for this role.

He's not going to get opportunities in Minny. This was predictable during the draft. Same as the Jazz drafting Kanter.

This. I'd be fine if we traded for him though I can't imagine what we could send them.

[Samuels]

Williams has no position

they basically drafted SuperCoolBeas 2.0

I am still perplexed by the hype Williams got last year like we hadnt already seen that story

And the NFL analogy is off, Gaines Adams (RIP) was traded after his 2nd year. There are other examples, but he is the first one that came to my mind.

I said it last year did'nt care for Williams much at all classic tweener. Yes he can be a stretch 4 but will never be a legit star player for a team because he is undersized and won't rebound at the 4.

[Going Commando]

I said it last year did'nt care for Williams much at all classic tweener. Yes he can be a stretch 4 but will never be a legit star player for a team because he is undersized and won't rebound at the 4.

You're right, not a great defensive rebounder but he's a fantastic offensive rebounder and his length would be fine at the four IMO. He's about the same as TRob, shorter but longer than Blake Griffin. Not great, but good enough. Williams does good job winning with quickness and skill and he's a pretty strong player that was very good in the post in college. He's an offensive player no doubt. But it's a really nice inside out game with some solid ISO scoring potential. That'd be nice to have out of one of our forwards. It'd be nice to have a forward that can shoot from range.

His offensive game is very complimentary of John's. He could be a terrific pick and pop shooter or pick and roll finisher. Nice thing about him is the flexibility he'd give us with his ability to play both forward spots. We could use him in lineups with Vesely or Singleton and Beal at the two and still have a lot of offense on the floor.

Defensively though, we'd take a hit and he doesn't help our defensive rebounding problems. Also, like Destino said, I have no idea what we could give up to get him.

---------- Post added July-8th-2012 at 08:50 AM ----------

I'm curious to see a Tyson Chandler/Kevin Love front court during the Olympics. I'm thinking Chandler is the perfect compliment for a player like Love. Love brings the offense and the rebounding, Chandler brings the speed and length and the defense. That could be a really effective duo. A boozer/Noah like pairing.

I think Love needs a center like this to play beside in Minnesota. They should seriously think about going after JaVale IMO. I know they were interested in him during last year's draft. A long defensive big like that takes a lot of the pressure off of Love's weakest part of his game.

[Destino]

John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger

With no Okafor trade, Wizards could have had Anderson. But I guess they can’t use cap space to compete with glamour markets like New Orleans

Ouch.

[StillUnknown]

Ouch.

Ersan Ilyasova is about to get 9mil per to stay in Milwaukee.

Better players on better deals than the contracts we got back in trade.

[Destino]

Ersan Ilyasova is about to get 9mil per to stay in Milwaukee.

Better players on better deals than the contracts we got back in trade.

Not surprising. Grunfeld hasn't exactly had a short period of time to prove himself.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Destino

[No Excuses]

Ersan Ilyasova is about to get 9mil per to stay in Milwaukee.

Better players on better deals than the contracts we got back in trade.

His short sighted, completely below average moves are not surprising.

Grunfeld is the kid who prepares for a C on tests, but usually gets D's and F's.

[Burgold]

Was thinking about how the Nats at the midpoint of this season have tallied about the same number of wins as the Wizards in their last two seasons combined.

[RonArtest15]

Well, looks like SM was right (kinda)....this Dwight Howard trade is going down WITH an assist from that fool, Dan Gilbert & the Cavs.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

Tentacles of Nets-Magic talks covering 14 players, 3 teams w/ possible 4th locking in to take MarShon Brooks to provide pick, sources tell Y

I honestly believe Dan Gilbert is helping to push this through to give the Heat some competition in the ECF. Yes, I think he's that petty.

[Going Commando]

Well, looks like SM was right (kinda)....this Dwight Howard trade is going down WITH an assist from that fool, Dan Gilbert & the Cavs.

I honestly believe Dan Gilbert is helping to push this through to give the Heat some competition in the ECF. Yes, I think he's that petty.

This is fascinating and simultaneously blows.

I honestly think the reason Orlando is taking such a lackluster package back for Dwight is because no other teams were willing to come to the table for him. Once he made it known Brooklyn was the only team he wanted an extension with, it was a standoff. No team wants to give up a whole bunch for the solid chance they won't be able to keep the player for more than a year. Especially since he's hurt too.

I think Brooklyn was the only serious suitor for Howard and the Magic didn't want to chance losing him for nothing.

I'm still curious if he would have seriously turned down that extra money to leave Orlando for Brooklyn. Nobody has done it yet.

If I were a GM, I'd say screw it, you can walk or you can sign the extension. I'm not trading you and I'm sure as **** not facilitating a sign and trade. You walk you leave that 30 million on the table. Especially for a franchise changer like Dwight. It'd be worth the risk IMO. It's not like you get anything back of significance in a sign and trade anyway.

---------- Post added July-9th-2012 at 09:36 AM ----------

His short sighted, completely below average moves are not surprising.

Grunfeld is the kid who prepares for a C on tests, but usually gets D's and F's.

This deal wasn't really short sighted. It was a stop gap move made in order to avoid taking on lengthy contracts. The goal was to get decent veterans with short term deals.

The short sighted move would have been to plunk down a ton of money and years for a mediocre role player in free agency. I think this year's free agency class was extremely weak, and demonstrated that, with few exceptions, UFA contracts for veteran role players are the worst value in the sport. I don't have a problem avoiding free agency in a year like this one. To me that is taking the long view.

The opportunity cost of the move was probably high. I refuse to believe we couldn't have gotten more out of Shard's expiring contract.

I also think the move wasn't terribly impactful because it didn't address our shooting needs. Defense was one area we were actually looking up and could reasonably have expected us to make big strides next year. I think the move mostly added to a strength, although Okafor's rebounding ability when he's healthy should be a big help too.

---------- Post added July-9th-2012 at 09:45 AM ----------

Ersan Ilyasova is about to get 9mil per to stay in Milwaukee.

Better players on better deals than the contracts we got back in trade.

That's not a great deal by any stretch though. 9 million per year for 5 years for a guy with as little a track record as Ilyasova isn't good at all. It's just not as bad as some of the other deals we've seen this offseason. I liked Ilyasova for us, but I was thinking 7 million a year was verging on overpaying for him. Five years is also too long. Ilyasova needs to be a high level starter for a while now to justify that deal.

I'd rather overpay for Okafor for 2 years than Ilyasova for 5.

[Hersh]

That's not a great deal by any stretch though. 9 million per year for 5 years for a guy with as little a track record as Ilyasova isn't good at all. It's just not as bad as some of the other deals we've seen this offseason. I liked Ilyasova for us, but I was thinking 7 million a year was verging on overpaying for him. Five years is also too long. Ilyasova needs to be a high level starter for a while now to justify that deal.

I'd rather overpay for Okafor for 2 years than Ilyasova for 5.

This is spot on and the same goes for Ryan Anderson. These guys have had one good year out of 3 or 4 and it's exactly the kind of contract that teams always regret one or two years later when the production goes back down.

[SuperBash]

It baffles me that some people are still mad about taking vets for TWO years. We'll be in a better place in 2 years to see if we should make a run at pricey FAs. I'm not really seeing any guys on the market that I'd pay a lot of money to over 4-5 years. Not really worth it.

[StillUnknown]

That's not a great deal by any stretch though. 9 million per year for 5 years for a guy with as little a track record as Ilyasova isn't good at all. It's just not as bad as some of the other deals we've seen this offseason. I liked Ilyasova for us, but I was thinking 7 million a year was verging on overpaying for him. Five years is also too long. Ilyasova needs to be a high level starter for a while now to justify that deal.

I'd rather overpay for Okafor for 2 years than Ilyasova for 5.

I guess that depends on how you feel about Illyasova. Personally, I think he has a great shot at outperforming that contract.

It baffles me that some people are still mad about taking vets for TWO years. We'll be in a better place in 2 years to see if we should make a run at pricey FAs. I'm not really seeing any guys on the market that I'd pay a lot of money to over 4-5 years. Not really worth it.

It's not about length of contract, its about quality of the vet on the deal they have. Instead of signing overpriced middling talent this offseason, we traded for them.

We hope we'll be in a better place in 2 years, if we're not, it feels like Ted will finally do what he should of done years ago and fire Ernie, which would start another "rebuild".

Edited July 9, 2012 by StillUnknown

[RonArtest15]

I guess that depends on how you feel about Illyasova. Personally, I think he has a great shot at outperforming that contract.

It's not about length of contract, its about quality of the vet on the deal they have. Instead of signing overpriced middling talent this offseason, we traded for them.

We hope we'll be in a better place in 2 years, if we're not, it feels like Ted will finally do what he should of done years ago and fire Ernie, which would start another "rebuild".

If we signed any overpriced middling talent, we'd be on the hook for more than 2 years. I'm fine with what we did as far as getting Okafor/Ariza. And this was BEFORE we landed Beal. We'll be improved this year and next...with the "potential" to do some great things via FA come 2014. By then, hopefully we'll be an attractive destination.

*Also, what's John Hollinger's beef with the Wizards. He's saying that we could have traded for Anderson if we hadn't made a move for Ariza/Okafor. Like dealing for Anderson would have been THAT easy. C'mon.

[StillUnknown]

If we signed any overpriced middling talent, we'd be on the hook for more than 2 years. I'm fine with what we did as far as getting Okafor/Ariza. And this was BEFORE we landed Beal. We'll be improved this year and next...with the "potential" to do some great things via FA come 2014. By then, hopefully we'll be an attractive destination.

*Also, what's John Hollinger's beef with the Wizards. He's saying that we could have traded for Anderson if we hadn't made a move for Ariza/Okafor. Like dealing for Anderson would have been THAT easy. C'mon.

The short contracts are a definite positive of trading for players instead of signing them. The flip side is that you're almost definitely going to be taking a player with red flags in terms of a bad contract or injury. You're taking someone that a GM, most likely more competent than our own, has deemed it was mistake to give that kind of deal.

[Thinking Skins]

The short contracts are a definite positive of trading for players instead of signing them. The flip side is that you're almost definitely going to be taking a player with red flags in terms of a bad contract or injury. You're taking someone that a GM, most likely more competent than our own, has deemed it was mistake to give that kind of deal.

I think Ernie has made enough good trades to not necessarily get this label. Maybe he's not the best at it, but lets not act like he's the worse guy in the NBA.

[Mr Awesome]

I am looking forward to seeing Vesely play in the summer league...I have a feeling he's going to do pretty damn well, especially if the talk of him working hard on his shot is true. I know he puts in the work.

Jan Vesely said that he is devoting his offseason to work on his shooting.

"I devote my summer to improve my shooting," he said. "I'll try to refine my shot every day." Vesely admitted that he'll probably never be an "excellent shooter," but he wants to get comfortable with it so he's not afraid to take an open jumper. It's good to see that he wants to improve after averaging 6.9 points, 6.0 rebounds and 1.2 steals on 52 percent shooting over 20 starts. Jun 18 - 11:46 AM

Edited July 9, 2012 by Mr Awesome