The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

The Nets will get Dwight Howard. This season or next, it should happen. Dwight has his mind set on it and he can make it happen.

[RonArtest15]

The Nets will get Dwight Howard. This season or next, it should happen. Dwight has his mind set on it and he can make it happen.

Virtually impossible. Dwight to BK isnt happening. They have too much money tied into williams, johnson, and wallace. I'd keep an eye on Atlanta.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

https://twitter.com/#!/SpearsNBAYahoo

Marc J. Spears ‏@SpearsNBAYahoo

Newly arrived free agent guard Courtney Lee getting interest from Clippers, Pacers, Bulls, Mavs and Wizards, sources tell Yahoo! Sports.

[RonArtest15]

https://twitter.com/#!/SpearsNBAYahoo

Jordan Crawford is officially on notice. I don't expect CL to sign here, but let's hope this lights a fire under Crawford's *** and he steps up his play.

Edited July 4, 2012 by RonArtest15

[Going Commando]

Virtually impossible. Dwight to BK isnt happening. They have too much money tied into williams, johnson, and wallace. I'd keep an eye on Atlanta.

They'll get him through trade some way. The only reason Deron chooses the Nets over the Mavs is if he's confident the Nets can get Dwight. The Nets have been the worst period of his career. He has to believe their circumstances will legitimately change.

The Magic can't lose Dwight for nothing and it looks like he's hell bent on playing with a top PG. There is 0 chance he will return to Orlando. Teams with top PGs hold all the leverage. Dwight has a personal relationship with Dwill. Prokhorov has crazy deep pockets and there are a million exceptions built into the cap to let teams spend almost double the cap.

Brooklyn is the overwhelming favorite. No team comes to the table to deal if they think Dwight won't sign an extension. No team without a top PG would likely be able to sign him. Atlanta won't get him without a PG. Atlanta won't get a PG when CP3 signs an extension with LA.

You know... if John Wall makes a leap this year, Dwight should consider coming here. And Orlando should consider dealing with us. We've got appealing young pieces and nice veteran pieces to deal with. I'm not sure how you structure a deal, but I bet there is one to be had.

Dwight choosing to play with John and Beal is a more sensible construction than choosing to play with Deron and JJ. Ours would be a more balanced roster that could more easily contend. Dwight would be the #1 offensive option here but he might be the third best scorer in Brooklyn... the guards would dominate the ball. Here his numbers would probably climb because he'd keep his floor space from Beal but also get a ton of easier looks from John. Plus there are a lot of defensive pieces already in place here so he wouldn't have to anchor such a crappy unit.

And he'd certainly get his attention in D.C. Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes are merger days ago enough to not encroach on any potential legacy concerns. And he could probably win at least one championship here in time.

Our situation actually makes a ton of sense for him and he could put basketball on the map here. Next questions, is it a good fit for the Wizards? Is the timing right for everyone involved? Right now we're capped out and have all of our core players save Nene on rookie deals. We've got big man by committee and enough variety to cover all our bases but no one big that can score, rebound, and play defense all in one. Dwight won't be the young freak for much longer, he's entering his prime years and ready to contend now. John and Beal are years away from their prime. Dwight also has a serious back injury...

Ultimately the timing will be why something like this doesn't happen. There isn't enough time before the trade deadline for John and Beal to show their potential to lure him. There isn't enough time before the deadline for us to clear out the cap space to engage Orlando without seriously compromising our core.

But from a pure basketball perspective, can you imagine how good Dwight could make us & vice versa?

---------- Post added July-4th-2012 at 07:50 AM ----------

Knicks??? As long as Melo/STAT are together, they'll never finish above a 5th seed in the East.

Honeymoon stage w/ Woody was great. But I FULLY expect the wheels to fall off at some point this season. Watching the playoffs this past year should have made it glaringly obvious that neither Carmelo or Stoudemire have the mental make-up to do what it takes to CARRY a team through a playoff series. NEITHER guy will ever do enough on the defensive end to make this happen.

I think Carmelo Anthony is the single-most overrated player in the NBA. He (along w/ Dolan) screwed the Knicks out of ANY roster flexibility.

Carmelo is a great player, certainly not the problem there. Legitimately worthy of a max contract. You need flexibility to get great players like him. They did.

The Knicks lost to Miami because A.) Miami is a great team, a superior team, & B.) New York got completely slammed with injuries at playoff time. Lin, Shumpert, and Amare all went down. That's three of their five or six best players. They didn't lose because Carmelo isn't good enough. That's simply Carmelo hater talk.

[RonArtest15]

They'll get him through trade some way. The only reason Deron chooses the Nets over the Mavs is if he's confident the Nets can get Dwight. The Nets have been the worst period of his career. He has to believe their circumstances will legitimately change.

The Magic can't lose Dwight for nothing and it looks like he's hell bent on playing with a top PG. There is 0 chance he will return to Orlando. Teams with top PGs hold all the leverage. Dwight has a personal relationship with Dwill. Prokhorov has crazy deep pockets and there are a million exceptions built into the cap to let teams spend almost double the cap.

Brooklyn is the overwhelming favorite. No team comes to the table to deal if they think Dwight won't sign an extension. No team without a top PG would likely be able to sign him. Atlanta won't get him without a PG. Atlanta won't get a PG when CP3 signs an extension with LA.

You know... if John Wall makes a leap this year, Dwight should consider coming here. And Orlando should consider dealing with us. We've got appealing young pieces and nice veteran pieces to deal with. I'm not sure how you structure a deal, but I bet there is one to be had.

Dwight choosing to play with John and Beal is a more sensible construction than choosing to play with Deron and JJ. Ours would be a more balanced roster that could more easily contend. Dwight would be the #1 offensive option here but he might be the third best scorer in Brooklyn... the guards would dominate the ball. Here his numbers would probably climb because he'd keep his floor space from Beal but also get a ton of easier looks from John. Plus there are a lot of defensive pieces already in place here so he wouldn't have to anchor such a crappy unit.

And he'd certainly get his attention in D.C. Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes are merger days ago enough to not encroach on any potential legacy concerns. And he could probably win at least one championship here in time.

Our situation actually makes a ton of sense for him and he could put basketball on the map here. Next questions, is it a good fit for the Wizards? Is the timing right for everyone involved? Right now we're capped out and have all of our core players save Nene on rookie deals. We've got big man by committee and enough variety to cover all our bases but no one big that can score, rebound, and play defense all in one. Dwight won't be the young freak for much longer, he's entering his prime years and ready to contend now. John and Beal are years away from their prime. Dwight also has a serious back injury...

Ultimately the timing will be why something like this doesn't happen. There isn't enough time before the trade deadline for John and Beal to show their potential to lure him. There isn't enough time before the deadline for us to clear out the cap space to engage Orlando without seriously compromising our core.

But from a pure basketball perspective, can you imagine how good Dwight could make us & vice versa?

---------- Post added July-4th-2012 at 07:50 AM ----------

Carmelo is a great player, certainly not the problem there. Legitimately worthy of a max contract. You need flexibility to get great players like him. They did.

The Knicks lost to Miami because A.) Miami is a great team, a superior team, & B.) New York got completely slammed with injuries at playoff time. Lin, Shumpert, and Amare all went down. That's three of their five or six best players. They didn't lose because Carmelo isn't good enough. That's simply Carmelo hater talk.

SM,

As it stands right now, it's highly unlikely that Dwight Howard makes it to Brooklyn. They can't afford all of these contracts. Doesn't matter how deep MP's pockets are, the way the CBA is set up, they just can't do it. They're going to roll w. a nucleus of Williams, Wallace, Johnson, and the Euro dude they just signed.

Dwight Howard as a Net is a pipe dream. They don't have the assets to make it happen via trade. The only way it would work is if Orlando is dumb enough to take back guys like Humphries/Lopez and sign them to contracts that they are not worth.

I do agree that there is a O% chance that he'll stay in Orlando past his current deal, but there are teams out there that could pull the trigger on a deal. Like I said before, I'd keep an eye on him returning to Atlanta if he plays out the year w. the Magic (awwwwkward). That's where he grew up and played AAU w. Josh Smith. Danny Ferry is creating space to make a run at either him or Chris Paul...or both, after this season.

Moving on...

As far as Melo...here's why he's at fault

1. He dogged it for 3/4 of the season. Put forth minimal effort and he admitted it.

2. He was out of shape for the ENTIRE year.

He's overrated and NOT a guy you build around or count on to take your team to the next level. Watch the effort guys on the Celtics, Thunder, Spurs, and Heat put forth during the post season. Ask yourself if you HONESTLY think Melo could do that. No. He has yet to show any sort of commitment to anything other than isos and trying to score. He's about as one dimensional of a "star" that you'd find in the NBA.

Edited July 4, 2012 by RonArtest15

[Going Commando]

A Melo team has never missed the postseason. Melo has been a complete hoss in the postseason too. But every Melo team has been a bit flawed in construction. He's not the Problem RA any more than Paul Pierce was the problem in Boston prior to the formation of the Big 3. He's the central building block you want to focus the entire thing around.

In fact, I actually think Pierce and Melo are highly similar players.

First off, Melo was hurt most of the year. What are you going to do about it?

Second, Melo isn't even close to a one dimensional player. He might be the most versatile offensive player in the league and he is without question, one of the best sources of crunch time scoring in the game (single most valuable skill in the game). Plus he's a top tier rebounder and is capable of being a complete lock down low post and perimeter defender for stretches.

You can certainly win a championship building around a small forward like Melo. He's honestly not a significant step down from LeBron or Durant. But you can't win a championship with just him any more than you could with just LeBron. LeBron is a better player and he couldn't get over the hump just him, even in Cleveland. And Cleveland was an elite defensive team during their good years giving LeBron some margin for error. And Cleveland had a much easier go of it getting out of the East than Denver in those brutal mid decade Western Conference years.

So if LeBron, a superior player playing on better teams in a weaker conference, couldn't get over the hump, why is Carmelo doomed and a flawed player you can't win a championship with? LeBron got his help and got his ring.

If Paul Pierce was on lotto teams in Boston prior to the arrival of KG and Ray Allen and the emergence of Rondo, does that make him a flawed player you can't build a championship around? No. He obviously just needed help. And when he got it, instant championship.

Those Denver rosters and these Knicks rosters have been lacking. Last year it seemed like they finally might have something interesting going the team got slammed with injuries. Basically no team survives three of its five best players missing multiple games in the playoffs, especially not against a team as good as Miami.

Say what you want about Melo, but Oklahoma City and Miami are the only two teams in the league that wouldn't swap their current starting SF for Melo. Every other team in the league would do so without hesitation. He's one of the 10 most valuable players in the game.

---------- Post added July-4th-2012 at 08:16 PM ----------

BTW, IMO, 10 most valuable players in the NBA in any given year:

- LeBron

- Durant

- Kobe

- Dwight

- Rose

- CP3

- Melo

- Nowitzki

- DWade

- Westbrook or DWill or Tony Parker

Basically, all of those guys will almost never miss the playoffs in a healthy year.

On the fence about Wade, Westbrook, Parker, and DWill right now. Wade is close to dropping off the list. DWill has an attitude problem that made him look terrible on a Nets team that really shouldn't have been that bad. And Westbrook seems like he hasn't full made the leap to Superstar status yet. Parker can be a little too streaky for my taste.

I could see a case for Rondo or Nash if Nash wasn't so old and Rondo was a more reliable source of individual scoring. I could see a case for Love if he wasn't such a terrible defender.

I could see a case for Aldridge and Josh Smith if Smith was a smarter offensive player and Aldridge wasn't so soft for a big man.

I think we might also only be a year or two from DeMarcus Cousins, Blake Griffin, and John Wall joining lists like this.

[Destino]

Melo isn't going to change his postseason luck anytime soon. Bad system/coach and his team has a big problem known as Amare:

2012-13: $19,948,799.

2013-14: $21,679,893.

2014-15: $23,410,988

Good luck unloading that.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Destino

[RonArtest15]

We've had this discussion before, but I'll say it again. I wholeheartedly disagree with just about everything you said about Carmelo Anthony. He flat out admitted that he didn't give his best effort while playing for Mike D'Antoni. His words. Second, he was out of shape for the entire season. This is the guy that you can build a team around? Nah. Give me someone who actually cares about the effort they're putting in night in and night out. I don't care how good Melo is in the "clutch," he was AWFUL this past season. And spare me what he's "capable" of doing while on defense. He doesn't show it. I watch plenty of Knicks games and Melo along with STAT are sieves at best on the defense end of the court. He's a ball-dominant player who retards the flow of the offense in order to get his. I'm sorry, but if I'm building a team, Carmelo Anthony is not a player that I'd want on my roster.

Carmelo FORCED his way to New York with championship aspirations. I'm telling you right now that the Knicks fanbase is lukewarm on the guy. He has yet to show anything in a year and a half to lead anyone to believe that he can not only take his overall game to another level, but also the Knicks.

Don't even mention him in the same breath as KD or Lebron. He's not even in the same stratosphere as those two. Both of those guys have shown leadership abilities and the knack for stepping up their play when it matters. We're still waiting on that from Melo. In year 9, he is what he is. Nothing more than a better version of Glenn Robinson.

His Denver teams were VERY good. He's benefitted from playing with some good talent over the years. His Knicks team sucks, but it's his doing. He forced his hand to New York and they in turn gave up just about every young/good asset they had. If he was patient (he was going to end up in NY regardless), the Knicks might have been able to field a better team due to having more money flexibility.

I can go on and on, but I'm going to stop. I stand firm in what I think about Carmelo Anthony. He's one-dimensional and the most overrated player in the NBA.

---------- Post added July-4th-2012 at 08:26 PM ----------

Melo isn't going to change his postseason luck anytime soon. Bad system/coach and his team has a big problem known as Amare:

2012-13: $19,948,799.

2013-14: $21,679,893.

2014-15: $23,410,988

Good luck unloading that.

Yeah, that too LOL.

Melo has a hand in this as well. Dolan is at fault for RUINING Donnie Walsh's vision of what to do with the Knicks. Dolan put this trade through when it didn't need to be done.

[Going Commando]

We are going to simply disagre over Melo RA. I think you're severely undervaluing the guy and I think most of the basketball world would agree. He is in no way a one dimensional player or a ball stopper. You're acting like he's Monta Ellis or something (although I think this guy gets an unfair bad rap too). That's ridiculous.

How can you blame him for the moves the Knicks FO made? Is he out there making trades and signing deals for them? That's absurd.

He was hurt this year and was out of shape. Well guess what, a lot of guys were this season. Dirk Nowitzki of all people was. Does that make Dirk any less of a HoFer and franchise building block? No. This was an unusual year that caused a lot of problems for a lot of players.

Re: defense, he's an indifferent defender that gives inconsistent effort. But he can and does absolutely lock it down when he's in the zone and orchestrating a big run. He can defend the post and the perimeter, which is unusual. He's one of the few guys in the league that can go one on one with LeBron and truly hold his own. He's no worse a defender than Paul Pierce really.

And Carmelo is also one of the best rebounding SFs in the league, let it be mentioned. He's nearly as good a rebounder as LeBron and Durant are.

No Carmelo isn't as good as Durant or LeBron. But they're the two best players in the league. Nobody reaches their standard any more--at any position.

Melo is absolutely an elite SF though, and in fact, I think he's probably a bit better than Paul Pierce was at the same age. You can build a true blue contender around a player like him. If you're worried about his defense, find some defenders. That didn't stop Boston from building an elite defense and winning a championship despite the fact both Pierce and Ray Allen are weak/inconsistent defenders.

Yeah, that too LOL.

Melo has a hand in this as well. Dolan is at fault for RUINING Donnie Walsh's vision of what to do with the Knicks. Dolan put this trade through when it didn't need to be done.

I don't get why you're blaming Melo for this at all. He's not the one who made these decisions. That's nuts. And also I will say never expect a player to leave his extra money on the table to sign somewhere else as a FA. Deron Williams didn't even do it and it looked like Brooklyn had 0 chance of keeping him 1 month ago. No player has EVER left that money on the table before. Until it happens, I'll assume it won't. It wasn't a done deal that Melo would walk to NY on his own by any stretch.

The bad contract the Knicks are regretting is Amar'e's. The guy looks washed up plain and simple and his contract is going to be a monster to try and move. If the Knicks put Carmelo on the block I bet 27 other teams come calling about him.

[DallasBlowsBig]

Melo is a joke, so is the idea that Dwight Howard would ever come here.

[Going Commando]

Melo isn't going to change his postseason luck anytime soon. Bad system/coach and his team has a big problem known as Amare:

2012-13: $19,948,799.

2013-14: $21,679,893.

2014-15: $23,410,988

Good luck unloading that.

It's a bad deal for sure but never say never with these kinds of contracts. Joe Johnson got traded, I never would have believed that possible. Also, we manage to trade Gilbert Arenas with similar length and money left on the deal.

---------- Post added July-4th-2012 at 08:50 PM ----------

Melo is a joke, so is the idea that Dwight Howard would ever come here.

Thank you for your insight. You're a boon to this thread.

---------- Post added July-4th-2012 at 08:56 PM ----------

Also, are most Knicks fans pissy over losing Wilson Chandler and Dano Gallinari?

Would most Knicks fans actually trade places with Nuggets fans today?

[SuperBash]

This offseason has backfired on Dallas big time, unless they can get Dwight but is Dallas even that attractive of a place to go to? Dirk is getting older and they aren't too loyal of a franchise anyways.

[DallasBlowsBig]

Don't worry not offended by your comments lol. Melo has just underacheived in so many ways and doesn't like to be coached. And seriously, you'd have to be on drugs to even think about Dwight Howard coming to the Wizards, that's like saying North Korea is planning on becoming a democracy.

[Going Commando]

Don't worry not offended by your comments lol. Melo has just underacheived in so many ways and doesn't like to be coached. And seriously, you'd have to be on drugs to even think about Dwight Howard coming to the Wizards, that's like saying North Korea is planning on becoming a democracy.

I was sarcastically pointing out that a one line drive by post adds nothing to the discussion, nothing personal.

You're still not saying much in your response though, nor justifying your position really. Also if you go back and read my post, I never suggested Dwight coming to DC was something I thought would happen. I said it was something that Dwight and Orlando should consider if they were smart because the fit would be great.

[Destino]

This offseason has backfired on Dallas big time, unless they can get Dwight but is Dallas even that attractive of a place to go to? Dirk is getting older and they aren't too loyal of a franchise anyways.

I posted a similar observation in the nba thread. No DWill and Howard doesn't look likely... Why didn't they keep Chandler again? I think they screwed themselves.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I posted a similar observation in the nba thread. No DWill and Howard doesn't look likely... Why didn't they keep Chandler again? I think they screwed themselves.

they couldnt afford him

[DallasBlowsBig]

alright my bad Steve, I probably didn't read your post closely, I tend to do some fast skimming while I am working on other things so I apologize. It would be awesome to see Dwight play with John Wall. I just don't like how Dwight was once such a humble player and now has turned into such a diva. I mean he is damn good I just don't agree with his personality.

[Destino]

BTW let's talk about this major market nonsense. Anyone think Melo and Amere are more famous nice moving to NY? If anything I feel like the Knicks are the NBA's least respected significant team. Meanwhile OKC is shining and Kyrie Irving is "getting buckets" on my TV in an old man suit. I think the entire concept of it being worth it to play in a major media market is crap manufactured by the media themselves.

Miami is not a large market, either, people just pretend it is.

---------- Post added July-4th-2012 at 09:20 PM ----------

they couldnt afford him

Yes they could. They chose not to in order to have space for a major signing.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

BTW let's talk about this major market nonsense. Anyone think Melo and Amere are more famous nice moving to NY? If anything I feel like the Knicks are the NBA's least respected significant team. Meanwhile OKC is shining and Kyrie Irving is "getting buckets" on my TV in an old man suit. I think the entire concept of it being worth it to play in a major media market is crap manufactured by the media themselves.

Miami is not a large market, either, people just pretend it is.

no it isnt.

Go through the history of NBA champions. You have outliers like San Antonio (who some how got derided for being boring) and then Milwaukee. The rest are big market teams.

The Knicks stink and have an overrated history but players wanted to go there after they finally got some money.

Yes they could. They chose not to in order to have space for a major signing.

no, they couldnt afford it

they were already over the cap last season and no one knew what the CBA would be. With the luxury tax penalty, that Chandler contract would have been very high. ON top of that, Chandler's contract will be very bad in a couple of seasons and Dallas was not going to repeat.

[Destino]

They had a chance to sign him after the CBA and still chose not to worrying about cap space. Since then they've shed Butler, Terry, Barrea, Chandler, and Kidd. The new cap penalties haven't even kicked in yet.

[RonArtest15]

Another caveat in reference to Amare's horrible contract......it's uninsured.

Good luck moving that.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

They had a chance to sign him after the CBA and still chose not to worrying about cap space. Since then they've shed Butler, Terry, Barrea, Chandler, and Kidd. The new cap penalties haven't even kicked in yet.

But the luxury tax penalties will kick in 2013

Chandler signed a 4 year deal so thats 2 years under the harsh tax at 14 million a year for a center who relies on his athleticism but has been injury prone in his career.

That contract is going to look really bad within a year or 2 for the Knicks and they will not be anymore closer to an NBA title.

And on top of that, Tyson Chandler would not have made the Mavericks an NBA title team again. That was a lightning in the bottle type of run.

Barrea got overpaid in Minnesota too and really isnt that good.

I am not saying that the Mavericks didnt take an L this offseason, but I understood why they did it. THey had to get young.

Edited July 5, 2012 by AsiaticSkinsFan

[Destino]

no it isnt.

Go through the history of NBA champions. You have outliers like San Antonio (who some how got derided for being boring) and then Milwaukee. The rest are big market teams.

The Knicks stink and have an overrated history but players wanted to go there after they finally got some money.

7 of the last 14 NBA titles have been won by media markets outside the top ten.

Lakers 5

Dallas 1

Boston 1

San Antonio 4

Miami 2

Detroit 1

Times change, there is no more Celtic, Laker, and Bulls dominance (which is why major markets have dominated). My point however was that the players themselves are reaping the rewards. Winning + good agent > media market.

---------- Post added July-4th-2012 at 09:57 PM ----------

What penalties? The only major contract thy have today is Dirk. After him they have two stupid deals with Haywood and Carter. They have plenty of room.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

7 of the last 14 NBA titles have been won by media markets outside the top ten.

Lakers 5

Dallas 1

Boston 1

San Antonio 4

Miami 2

Detroit 1

Times change, there is no more Celtic, Laker, and Bulls dominance (which is why major markets have dominated). My point however was that the players themselves are reaping the rewards. Winning + good agent > media market.

Detroit was a big market at that time. Its a cesspool now, but it was big back then and they were able to sign decent free agents.

Miami is a big market in NBA terms. No taxes and South Beach.

I already mentioned San Antonio

And Jeremy Lin is a huge star right now? If he had that run in Milwaukee, it doesnt get 1/10th of the coverage.

And its not times changing, lol. Celtics and Lakers are still two of the best teams in the league. Wake me up when Minnesota has a chance or Milwaukee or Sacramento or even New Orleans. The NBA has always been like this.

What penalties? The only major contract thy have today is Dirk. After him they have two stupid deals with Haywood and Carter. They have plenty of room.

this is AFTER they didnt pay those other guys.

I agree those contracts to Haywood (they gave that out before the CBA, iirc) and Carter were stupid but Chandler will be a bad deal in the future as well.

here is a look at the penalties

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

Edited July 5, 2012 by AsiaticSkinsFan