The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

Hey, I watched three Cavs games this year and like four youtube mixtapes. Can I give my opinion of Irving?

LOL! By all means.

I know you're a fan of John's. I'd actually like to hear how you think he stacks up in relation to all these other PGs.

[MonkFan8]

Wall is 20, he will get better. And he's the most athletically gifted PG in the league. He may not start as blazing fast as a high skill player like CP3. But eventually there will come a point when John's skill levels will catch up to his talent and he will overwhelm his competition with his sheer giftedness and be an All Star.

I hope you're right. I'm honestly not that optimistic, but we'll see. I love John as a player and hope the revamped squad can get him where he needs to be.

FWIW, Wall will be 22 by the time the season starts. Irving is 20.

[DallasBlowsBig]

If the Wizards win games, Wall will get the respect he deserves. It is as simple as that.

[Destino]

When did rebounding become the third most important stat for point guards?

[Going Commando]

When did rebounding become the third most important stat for point guards?

What is this in reference to?

[Destino]

What is this in reference to?

When John Wall comes up people mention his points, assists, and rebounds. I find that strange being that rebounds are not traditionally a stat of tremendous importance when it comes to point guards.

[No Excuses]

A good rebounding PG can initiate fast breaks even faster, especially if the player has great speed.

Jason Kidd is a good example. Terrific rebounder, and it directly translated to his teams being able to play at a fast pace and scoring a lot easier in transition.

[NO iD=A-Ok]

I think a lot of the concern about Wall comes from the fact that sometimes he just doesn't look like he knows what he's doing. Too often he doesn't seem to be in control (whether it be himself or his team.)

[Going Commando]

When John Wall comes up people mention his points, assists, and rebounds. I find that strange being that rebounds are not traditionally a stat of tremendous importance when it comes to point guards.

They aren't but I do think it's a gauge of overall value and ability, not just for playing the PG position. Same for SGs and SFs, although it's a fairly important skill for SFs.

One of the reasons guys like Rondo, CP3, and Jason Kidd are so valuable as basketball players is because of their big time rebounding ability. They're triple double threats every night. I think John can be in a similar class eventually because he's a pretty good rebounder. Should be even better if Okafor plays a lot this season with his odd gift for tip outs leading to long offensive rebounds.

Rebounding is a funny stat that's complexity isn't properly measured by conventional metrics. For instance, I think someone can rake in a high number of rebounds but not have a net positive effect for your team in terms of team defensive rebounding because they don't consistently box out.

I think JaVale was a classic example of this.

On the flip side, I think players can be good at boxing out but not really pull down a lot of rebounds but still really improve your team rebounding and have a net positive effect. Case in point: Nene. I actually saw a stat where Nene improved our team rebounding rate while on the floor a fair bit over JaVale even though his individual averages were low. It's all about playing good team ball ultimately, and Nene is a terrific team player, and he actually gets a bit underrated because he doesn't have the type of game that racks up individual volume stats. John's rebounding is a part of him being able to play good team ball and have an impact on each part of the game. Same as his shot blocking, ability to defend 2 and 3 on 1s on the break, his ability to take charges, etc. These are not traditionally pure PG skills but they are valuable basketball skills. It paints a picture of John being a better overall basketball player than guys like Kyrie Irving.

I also think the ability to track down long rebounds or get into the fray, box out, and pull down boards for guys like Beal and Wall is particularly useful for our team because we really don't have good front court rebounders outside Okafor and maybe Booker.

---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 06:39 PM ----------

A good rebounding PG can initiate fast breaks even faster, especially if the player has great speed.

Jason Kidd is a good example. Terrific rebounder, and it directly translated to his teams being able to play at a fast pace and scoring a lot easier in transition.

That's a good point. I didn't even think of that.

You really see that effect you describe out of Miami with Wade and LeBron both being good rebounders as well as the primary ball handlers. Plus LeBron is a nasty outlet passer. They can play at a super fast pace.

With John's cruising speed and rebounding ability, there is really no reason we shouldn't try and push the pace as fast as possible with this group. They're young and Nene, Vesely, Beal, all of them can run. If Beal gets to where he can knockdown those transition threes automatically, we'll be a strong transition offense.

---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 06:49 PM ----------

God I hope the Magic don't deal Dwight to Brooklyn.

---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 07:25 PM ----------

I just tallied up some of the responses to what ended up being the most interesting question I asked, the first one.

If my counting and my interpretation to each response is correct, then I got 8 responses to each, including my own.

Consensus:

1.) Indy is more talented than Washington--7 people chose Indy, 1 person chose Washington.

2.) Philly is more talented than Washington--6 people chose Philly, 2 people chose Washington.

3.) Washington is more talented than Toronto--7 people chose Washington, 1 person chose Toronto.

4.) Washington is more talented than Cleveland--6 people chose Washington, 2 people chose Cleveland.

5.) Washington is more talented than Detroit--6 people chose Washington, 2 people chose Detroit.

Slim consensus on Washington being more talented than Milwaukee--5 chose Washington, 3 chose Milwaukee.

No consensus on Atlanta. 4 chose each Washington and Atlanta.

The rest of the questions provided most of the same answers.

- Most people thought the Knicks had little chance of seriously contending.

- Most thought Brooklyn would contend if they got Dwight Howard, even if he were injured for much of the regular season.

- Most thought Chicago would still make the playoffs as a mid seed.

- Most thought Indy will be a mid seed, particularly since it was known Hibbert is coming back.

- Everyone thought Boston was still a contender

- A small majority thought Washington at least has a chance at finishing second in the division

- Optimism for our ability to make the playoffs was mixed, few ruled it out and few would call it a lock or even a probability.

Good stuff, thanks for all of the answers.

I'm not surprised the consensus was firm on Indy, Cleveland, Detroit, and Philly. I'm also not surprised the majority was smaller or lacking on Milwaukee and Atlanta, those were hard to answer for me. I am a little surprised the consensus was so strong that we were better than Toronto. I definitely agree with the majority, but It took me a little while to think it through personally.

---------- Post added July-10th-2012 at 07:33 PM ----------

So take our responses and accept that Miami, Brooklyn, Chicago, New York, and Boston are all given as playoff locks, then the thread regulars give us an even chance for the 8th playoff seed competing with Atlanta and just beating out Milwaukee.

Edited July 10, 2012 by stevemcqueen1

[StillUnknown]

We now have about a week to officially amnesty Blatche.

Would've been nice to see a 12:01am press release.

---------- Post added July-11th-2012 at 12:19 AM ----------

Brook Lopez about to get a max deal from NJ :wtf:

[Hersh]

We now have about a week to officially amnesty Blatche.

Would've been nice to see a 12:01am press release.

---------- Post added July-11th-2012 at 12:19 AM ----------

Brook Lopez about to get a max deal from NJ :wtf:

Totally agree on Blatche. It should have been announced long ago. Some organizations are just tone deaf and it could be Ernie not wanting to admit a mistake.

Where did you get info on the Brooks Lopez situation? My guess is NJ is trying to force the issue with Orlando now cause it's taking forever.

[Skin'emAlive]

I would like to note that i think we are better than the pacers if Hibbert is gone. If Hibbert stays, they are better than us.

[StillUnknown]

Totally agree on Blatche. It should have been announced long ago. Some organizations are just tone deaf and it could be Ernie not wanting to admit a mistake.

Where did you get info on the Brooks Lopez situation? My guess is NJ is trying to force the issue with Orlando now cause it's taking forever.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nets-near-contract-agreement-with-brook-lopez.html

Restricted free-agent center Brook Lopez is progressing toward an agreement for a maximum contract with the Brooklyn Nets, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Nets president Billy King and Lopez’s agent, Arn Tellem, are finalizing the length of the deal – four years for $58 million, or five years for $78 million – and ironing out protections on the back end to account for a right foot that Lopez broke twice in the past year, sources said.

King is scheduled to travel to Los Angeles on Wednesday to work on completing the deal with Tellem.

[Hersh]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nets-near-contract-agreement-with-brook-lopez.html

Brooklyn knows that Orlando will lose a lot of leverage with all teams if they sign Brooks Lopez to deal. Orlando knows it can get 3 1st round picks and clear cap space with the Nets so every other team needs to top that.

[Warhead36]

Brook ****ing Lopez is getting maxed? Suddenly our trades for Ariza and Okafor don't look as bad....

[StillUnknown]

The offseason directly following a lockout and its still silly season for contracts. That **** will never change in the NBA.

[No Excuses]

Brook Lopez followed his rookie season with 18 and 8, and then 20 and 6. He needs to improve his rebounding but he's highly skilled offensively for a center. Skilled big men always come at a price.

[Going Commando]

Lopez is a legit 7 footer who can score 20 PPG. True Center. Back to basket profficiency and strong faceup game. Very few of those in the NBA.

Decent enough defender too. Still developing, getting better. Supposedly a tremendous worker. Crap rebounder and post game still lacks some creativity. Injuries have slowed him, but if he finds a run of health, he could make strides and become one of the best offensive centers in the league.

[bishtw]

Not sure if yall are interested in watching summer league games but if you are The Wizards are gonna be on the NBA Channel on Saturday at 4pm against ATL. Prolly be the first chance most of us get to see Beal in action.

[Thinking Skins]

Not sure if yall are interested in watching summer league games but if you are The Wizards are gonna be on the NBA Channel on Saturday at 4pm against ATL. Prolly be the first chance most of us get to see Beal in action.

I remember getting excited about the summer league when Nick Young came to town. Since then, I've calmed a lot on those games. If I'm home and Futurama, King of the Hill, and South Park are all boring episodes, then I may tune in for a few minutes

[Going Commando]

Dwight Howard will upset the balance of power in the NBA anywhere he goes. Kind of hoping it's somewhere outside the conference.

---------- Post added July-11th-2012 at 08:45 AM ----------

I wouldn't sign an one dimensional player like Brook Lopez to a max deal myself, but I understand why many teams would.

Scoring centers are rare and a potent weapon. Think about how many teams are vulnerable to these types of players. It's a good way to get offense against the Heat.

[Going Commando]

I wish we were good enough to entice Grant Hill to sign here. He was my favorite player growing up. I wore his shoes when I was ten.

I hope he gets himself a ring somewhere, but I'd hate to see him do it in Miami or LA.

---------- Post added July-11th-2012 at 08:59 AM ----------

I also really don't want to see Rashard Lewis get a ring in Miami. I don't want to see him get a ring anywhere. He doesn't deserve it.

---------- Post added July-11th-2012 at 09:01 AM ----------

Basketball shoes were hideous when I was a kid.

Edited July 11, 2012 by stevemcqueen1

[No Excuses]

That's a good point. I didn't even think of that.

You really see that effect you describe out of Miami with Wade and LeBron both being good rebounders as well as the primary ball handlers. Plus LeBron is a nasty outlet passer. They can play at a super fast pace.

With John's cruising speed and rebounding ability, there is really no reason we shouldn't try and push the pace as fast as possible with this group. They're young and Nene, Vesely, Beal, all of them can run. If Beal gets to where he can knockdown those transition threes automatically, we'll be a strong transition offense.

I'd really extend it to any player who is a good ball handler. Having great ball handling skills and being a terrific rebounder can be a pain in the ass for teams you play.

Rondo is another good example. How many times do we see him grab rebounds and be on the other side of the court in a couple of seconds?

When big men make outlet passes to initiate fast breaks, defenses get the extra second to match up and slow down the pace. A rebounding ball handler is a great weapon.

[RonArtest15]

Totally agree on Blatche. It should have been announced long ago. Some organizations are just tone deaf and it could be Ernie not wanting to admit a mistake.

Where did you get info on the Brooks Lopez situation? My guess is NJ is trying to force the issue with Orlando now cause it's taking forever.

EVERYONE knows it was a mistake to give him that extension. You think Ernie doesn't realize this? The amnesty clause is in their back pocket and they have a week to use it. My guess is that they are going to try their hardest to move him before using the amnesty. Whatever happens, Blatche will not be apart of this team going forward. That's the silver-lining in all of this.

*Signing Brook Lopez to a max deal is a mistake. He's a 7 footer who is absolutely allergic to rebounding.

Edited July 11, 2012 by RonArtest15

[NO iD=A-Ok]

Basketball shoes were hideous when I was a kid.

Ha, those look like absolute trash to me now, but when I had them in elem school I thought they were the best joints around. In hindsight, I guess it's no real surprise that FILA never became a bigger brand...