The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[MonkFan8]

Agreed with Milellie on Crawford, when he gets hot it certainly helps us keep the game close, but rarely does he take an easy shot. Part of that is on the poor offensive movement, but he consistently goes 1 on 1 more than anyone else on the team. Not a player I want long term, but that describes most of the team I suppose...

[Destino]

Crawford was scoring well all game. Garbage time? No. This entire team fell apart the second they took a one point lead. The team is extremely young and has very few scoring options. This is what you can expect.

Also points matter, this isn't football. Especially at SG.

[milellie111]

The Wizards 1st round pick last year isn't even good enough to beat out Rashard Lewis for minutes. Great draft Ernie!

---------- Post added February-21st-2012 at 04:21 AM ----------

Anyone on this team have any potential to be our "Jeremy Lin?

[Destino]

Agreed with Milellie on Crawford, when he gets hot it certainly helps us keep the game close, but rarely does he take an easy shot. Part of that is on the poor offensive movement, but he consistently goes 1 on 1 more than anyone else on the team. Not a player I want long term, but that describes most of the team I suppose...

He's a second year player whats Youngs excuse? Also I'm not sure I agree tht he takes more bad shot than Young. Crawford is a 2nd year back up SG, I don't expect much of him other than a off the bench scoring boost.

[milellie111]

Sorry for the rants guys, but this game put me over the edge after holding my composure for years. I'm in a foul mood with this organization. They are regressing, not getting better. There is no rebuilding plan. Starting a bunch of young DLeague guys is NOT rebuilding. Someone please email Ted. I read the posts on WizardsExtreme.Something must change.

[MonkFan8]

He's a second year player whats Youngs excuse? Also I'm not sure I agree tht he takes more bad shot than Young. Crawford is a 2nd year back up SG, I don't expect much of him other than a off the bench scoring boost.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ragging on Crawford in an attempt to defend Young. He's just as bad if not worse, though I think he'd be a better fit under a good coach than Crawford likely ever will. That said I'd be perfectly content if we let Young walk this off season as well. Too bad we didn't draft Brooks and let Young go this year.

[Destino]

This team needs a better coach and GM.

After that a lot depends on the draft. SG, SF, and PF need upgrades. I'm hoping all or at least two are free agents. We need vets that know the game and can score. Wall is not a natural scorer. I'd like to see:

Wall Mack

???? Crawford

???? Vesely Singleton

???? Booker

McGee Turiaf

???? = high draft pick or FA

No Blatche, Lewis, and Young. Hopefully Booker and Crawford can provide a scoring boost off th bench.

---------- Post added February-20th-2012 at 11:46 PM ----------

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ragging on Crawford in an attempt to defend Young. He's just as bad if not worse, though I think he'd be a better fit under a good coach than Crawford likely ever will. That said I'd be perfectly content if we let Young walk this off season as well. Too bad we didn't draft Brooks and let Young go this year.

Neither are starters and Crawford is more versatile. That IMO makes him more valuable than Young. He can play the 1 and 2 as he showed last season. If I had to choose one it's Crawford right now but I'd hate to see either as a starter or getting starter sized minutes outside of specific situations.

[Skin'emAlive]

Sorry for the rants guys, but this game put me over the edge after holding my composure for years. I'm in a foul mood with this organization. They are regressing, not getting better. There is no rebuilding plan. Starting a bunch of young DLeague guys is NOT rebuilding. Someone please email Ted. I read the posts on WizardsExtreme.Something must change.

WE will put you in a crappy mood. Best bet is staying here, or checking out TruthAboutIt.com. But yea, Grunfield needed to go years ago.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Skin'emAlive

[MonkFan8]

Neither are starters and Crawford is more versatile. That IMO makes him more valuable than Young. He can play the 1 and 2 as he showed last season. If I had to choose one it's Crawford right now but I'd hate to see either as a starter or getting starter sized minutes outside of specific situations.

Fair enough. In my opinion Nick's scoring ability is what would make him more valuable to a contender. Versatility only goes so far. I'd agree with you that I'd certainly be more in favor of keeping Crawford on board for our specific team.

[Gator Bait]

Ernie could have traded for Gortat which would have been a MAJOR asset for this team. Actually no, that would make too much sense and a move that a GOOD GM would make

And where did you get this information from...that Gortat was on the table for us to trade for...that we had something Orlando wanted?

---------- Post added February-21st-2012 at 08:12 AM ----------

Sorry for the rants guys, but this game put me over the edge after holding my composure for years. I'm in a foul mood with this organization. They are regressing, not getting better. There is no rebuilding plan. Starting a bunch of young DLeague guys is NOT rebuilding. Someone please email Ted. I read the posts on WizardsExtreme.Something must change.

I don't think we've regressed at all. Wall has definitely improved his shot over the course of the season, Booker is much better, and JaVale has improved his post game and defense. We have a rebuilding plan (which I believe is flawed) completely rebuilding through the draft like OKC did...problem with that is you have to get extremely lucky and have all your players hit. We need to trade the 2012 lottery pick for someone who can come in and efficiently score 20 ppg.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Gator Bait

[Burgold]

boy, you really must feel strongly about that last point :pfft:

[Gator Bait]

The Wizards 1st round pick last year isn't even good enough to beat out Rashard Lewis for minutes. Great draft Ernie!

I know what a bum....can't believe a rookie can't come in and consistently play better than a former All-Star right out of the gate. And I don't know why Singleton and Mack aren't all-stars yet.....busts!

---------- Post added February-21st-2012 at 08:24 AM ----------

Fair enough. In my opinion Nick's scoring ability is what would make him more valuable to a contender. Versatility only goes so far. I'd agree with you that I'd certainly be more in favor of keeping Crawford on board for our specific team.

Versatility is a must for an NBA starter...All Nick young can do is shoot (and he can't even do that consistently) he can drive at all and if he doesn't knock down his first few shots he usually crumbles. Nick would be a good scorer off the bench for a contender (like you said) but I don't think he'll ever be a player a team can rely on.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Gator Bait

[Thinking Skins]

I don't think we've regressed at all. Wall has definitely improved his shot over the course of the season, Booker is much better, and JaVale has improved his post game and defense. We have a rebuilding plan (which I believe is flawed) completely rebuilding through the draft like OKC did...problem with that is you have to get extremely lucky and have all your players hit. We need to trade the 2012 lottery pick for someone who can come in and efficiently score 20 ppg.

I agree with what you've said (except the flawed part), but I'll add that we still have the option to trade away guys like Young or Blatche (less likely though) and bring in talent or draft picks. We can also be active in free agency, or we can pull a Boston and trade a number of these young emerging players for a quality guy. The main flaw in the rebuilding plan was Flip. Now that he's gone, we're seeing more development. I don't think its out of the question for us to be active in free agency (and actually bring in a guy who can log some minutes) either. Not everybody strikes gold on the first try. But we have a plan of action right now and I think its essential for us to stick with it instead of pulling a Redskins and consistently abandoning all hope and changing direction with every twist in the wind.

---------- Post added February-21st-2012 at 09:39 AM ----------

I blame Vesely and Singleton for having to watch Lewis for 30 minutes this game.

They both need to get their fouls under control. I still look for Singleton to have an offensive improvement later this season. I think as he gets more comfortable and less winded he will become more of an option. I think Vesely just needs to work on his shot more, and I know he leads the rookie class in dunks, but I'd still like to see us utilize that part of his game more. I'd like to see Wall throwing more alley-oops to Vesely and McGee.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

All the Wizards need to do is follow the OKC model of drafting two guys who should make All NBA teams every year for the next ten years and then drafting another young guy who can score 20 points a night while coming off the bench and then draft a "project" who can occasionally put up a triple double with points, rebounds, and blocks.

It's so simple.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Going Commando]

I think the Rivers: Ellis comparison is spot on....which is the reason I wouldn't want Rivers. Rivers is an undersized 2 who wont be able to defend 2s in the NBA unless he hits a sudden growth spurt. I think Ellis is a horrible NBA player....selfish undersized two that lacks the passing skills to be an effective PG and he doesn't defend at all. He'll average 20+ per game and look good on the stat sheet...but he'll give up 30 and his team wont win. Rivers also has a huge ego problem and isn't a very good team player....I really don't like the guy (and I'm a duke fan)

Yeah I'm not sure how I feel about Rivers. So much of his scoring needs to come with the ball in his hands off the dribble. Really he's an ISO scorer and that's just not going to be a great fit with Wall.

I like Beal a lot as well. I don't think he is in the same mold as Ellis/Rivers even though he is undersized as well. I think you and I are equally as high on him...I think he could become a Ray Allen type player. Really nice 2nd best player on a championship team.

Hmm. That's a good comparison that hadn't really occurred to me. Similar ability to thrive off the ball and a sweet shooting ability.

I see some Eric Gordon in his game too with that shortish but powerful build. Beal is pretty shredded for such a young player and has a good NBA body despite his height. I think it's one of those situations where he just doesn't have a neck, but he's got a muscular frame with really long arms.

I've been watching Florida every chance I get and their games have come on TV a ton the past few weeks. Beal has really become one of my favorite players in the class. I think he's one of the most projectable players with a clear cut NBA game and NBA body. Plus I feel like he's really been one of the leaders and catalysts for a Florida team that's probably overachieving. I like it when a college player comes in and really asserts himself early and elevates the team. I love his versatility too. It's crazy to me that Beal is Florida's leading rebounder. Patric Young is going to be a first round pick too and he's not slouch. To be a 6'3 freshman 2 guard and lead your team in rebounds, that shows a lot of heart and basketball IQ to me.

If Beal slipped into the late lottery, I would do everything I could to trade up and get him. I'm afraid he's going to go off in the tourney though and really wake the NBA community up. Every year it seems like the guys who blow up during the conference and NCAA tournaments build tons of momentum and end up going really high.

[jeronimobrat]

All the Wizards need to do is follow the OKC model of drafting two guys who should make All NBA teams every year for the next ten years and then drafting another young guy who can score 20 points a night while coming off the bench and then draft a "project" who can occasionally put up a triple double with points' date=' rebounds, and blocks.

It's so simple.[/quote']

It's amazing how lucky they go with Durant and Westbrook...

While Durant has been a perrenial All-Star from the day he stepped on the court, Westbrook is slow developing his all-around game now.

I mean to have a backcourt comprised of Durant and Westbrook that can both give you a scoring average of 60 is enough to carry a team until the play-offs.

Not to mention, Ubaka (sp?) is becoming the second coming of Ben Wallace.

[Gator Bait]

Yeah I'm not sure how I feel about Rivers. So much of his scoring needs to come with the ball in his hands off the dribble. Really he's an ISO scorer and that's just not going to be a great fit with Wall.

Hmm. That's a good comparison that hadn't really occurred to me. Similar ability to thrive off the ball and a sweet shooting ability.

Agree 100%. His best bet to succeed in the NBA is to refine his point guard skills and be a Gilbert Arenas type PG...he'll also have to play with an elite defending shooting guard that doesn't need shots.

I see some Eric Gordon in his game too with that shortish but powerful build. Beal is pretty shredded for such a young player and has a good NBA body despite his height. I think it's one of those situations where he just doesn't have a neck, but he's got a muscular frame with really long arms.

I can see the Eric Gordon comparison in build, although I see Eric as a combo guard and I see Beal as a true 2 guard. You are right about his build enabling him to be effective at the next level despite his height...same can't be said for Austin Rivers. Don't get me wrong, Austin could end up being a really nice player, but I see him a Steph Curry (at best) and likely more of a Monta Ellis...can't believe the Warriors have both of those guys on their team. They might as well come out and tell the NBA "don't worry, we will never try and defend your guards....you can score all over us"

If Beal slipped into the late lottery, I would do everything I could to trade up and get him. I'm afraid he's going to go off in the tourney though and really wake the NBA community up. Every year it seems like the guys who blow up during the conference and NCAA tournaments build tons of momentum and end up going really high.

I think he is likely a top 10 pick and a team with a need at the 2 could possibly reach for him a bit. If the Wizards completely screwed themselves and started winning games at the end of the year and ended up drafting around #6...I wouldn't mind reaching for Beal if we couldn't trade the pick for a current NBA starting caliber wing.

---------- Post added February-21st-2012 at 11:44 AM ----------

It's amazing how lucky they go with Durant and Westbrook...

While Durant has been a perrenial All-Star from the day he stepped on the court, Westbrook is slow developing his all-around game now.

I mean to have a backcourt comprised of Durant and Westbrook that can both give you a scoring average of 60 is enough to carry a team until the play-offs.

Not to mention, Ubaka (sp?) is becoming the second coming of Ben Wallace.

yeah, they lucked out and their luck is screwing us because our front office actually thinks it can be duplicated. Durant is a once in a generation scorer, that's why it has worked out for them. You know Durant and Westbrook combined for 90 the other night...that is just disgusting.

[Destino]

All the Wizards need to do is follow the OKC model of drafting two guys who should make All NBA teams every year for the next ten years and then drafting another young guy who can score 20 points a night while coming off the bench and then draft a "project" who can occasionally put up a triple double with points' date=' rebounds, and blocks.

It's so simple.[/quote']

It really is simple, I mean look at this:

2007 2nd pick Kevin Durant

2008 4th pick Russell Westbrook

2008 24th pick Serge Ibaka

2009 3rd pick James Harden

Doesn't get any easier than that. I'm sure the wizards will start drafting very good to great players every year once someone tells Grunfeld that this is our plan moving forward.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Destino

[Samuels]

This team needs a coach in the worst way. That 3rd quarter in my opinion was on the coaches you gotta be able to settle your guys down and draw up good sets in your time outs.

I'm fine with our backcourt and i'd bring NY1 back on a similiar contract money wise. Sure when he is off he kinda goes into a shell but the coach needs to encourage him and run plays for him to keep him involved. Crawford at this point is fine as well and if he can fix his shot selection he can be a good piece. We lack 3 point shooters and scorers in genearl we can't let NY1 leave because its creating another big hole. Now if we can attract a good free agent like Batum,Gordon or Harden for a few million extra per year then by all means let him go.

I'd still take Lamb over Beal 7 days a week his lenght is a nightmare defensively and he shoots a high percentage. He can be run off screens shooting off the dribble. He can spotup and nail 3's and he was clutch for UConn in that tourney run late in games on both ends. But I honestly don't think we need to be drafting either this draftpick has to be a frontcourt player. Either a sweet shooting 3 or a big 4.

When I see 3rd quarters like last night it woulda been nice to have somebody like Sully to throw the ball to on the block to get a good shot.

My list

Davis

Sully

Robinson

Barnes

MKG

We need one of them. Barnes is growing on me and he is only playing 26mpg and putting up good numbers imagine if he was playing 32-35mpg like most.

[StillUnknown]

Only way I bring Nick back is if he accepted a veterans minimum contract. I refuse to believe that we can't find a better option than one dimensional player, who's not even that good at his one dimension.

[Samuels]

Only way I bring Nick back is if he accepted a veterans minimum contract. I refuse to believe that we can't find a better option than one dimensional player, who's not even that good at his one dimension.

I can understand everybodys frustration with NY but trust me it could be alot worse. He still leads the team in scoring and is the only guy that can hit a 3 ball. Scoring and 3 point shooting are the 2 biggest things we need this offseason letting him go compounds the problem even more.. If its a decent deal i'd bring him back its 1 less hole to fill. We have bigger issues to fill this offseason in the frontcourt.

[Destino]

This team can't afford to give up scoring. We don't have Durant and Westbrook here, and even they have a third in Harden. We have ZERO elite scoring threats (defined as 20+ppg). This team needs to add more than it subtracts or not subtract at all. Vesely and Singleton can't shoot. Booker isn't a consistent scoring threat. McGee look like he's improving but I think he tops out around 14ppg. Wall is not a natural scorer.

There is no way around the fact that the SG, SF, and PF need an upgraded starter.

[WALL-LE]

anyone who wants to get rid of YOung without bringing in Eric Gordon or someone like him are crazy. He's literally the only guard on our team who is a shooting threat. Id love to bring in Gordon and keep NY as a 6th man for a reasonable price... Add harrison barnes and our scoring is vastly improved

[SiCkSoULjA]

I can understand everybodys frustration with NY but trust me it could be alot worse. He still leads the team in scoring and is the only guy that can hit a 3 ball. Scoring and 3 point shooting are the 2 biggest things we need this offseason letting him go compounds the problem even more.. If its a decent deal i'd bring him back its 1 less hole to fill. We have bigger issues to fill this offseason in the frontcourt.

Young he refuses too pass the ball he continues too take shots with guys draped all over him and part of the problem he makes some of them which gives him the confidence too shoot more of them. Then on top of being just a streaky shooter that doesnt pass he's a average at best defender doesn't rebound at all.

We are in pretty bad shape we depend on him he gets us back in games or keeps us in some of them, and shoots us out of plenty. With out him scoring we don't win many games but at the same time I don't think we can get better with him being a center piece on the team.

Edited February 21, 2012 by SiCkSoULjA

[Samuels]

Young he refuses too pass the ball he continues too take shots with guys draped all over him and part of the problem he makes some of them which gives him the confidence too shoot more of them. Then on top of being just a streaky shooter that doesnt pass he's a average at best defender doesn't rebound at all.

We are in pretty bad shape we depend on him he gets us back in games or keeps us in some of them, and shoots us out of plenty. With out him scoring we don't win many games but at the same time I don't think we can get better with him being a center piece on the team.

I agree but he is still a scorer that can shoot the wide open 3 on the break two areas we struggle at already and need help. I don't think he will get offered any more then he makes now and he can eventually move to 6th man. Now don't get me wrong if we can upgrade the 2 with a high quality free agent i'm all for it. But at this point we need 2 starting front court players and that should be the focus.

Sullinger is about to play right now on espn.

And at 9pm is the big showdown everyone has been waiting for Anthoney Davis vs Arnett Moultrie