The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Skin'emAlive]

Im going to play the hypothetical here. If we let McGee walk, kick NY and Rashard out, and jettison Blatche, how do we keep this team competitive next year? Turiaf isnt coming back. Mason Jr wont be coming back. And i am not sure of the situation with Mo Evans, but i doubt he would come back either.

PG: Wall, Mack

SG: Crawford

SF: Singleton, Vesely

PF: Booker

C: Seraphin

That would be our roster! I can guarandamntee if we show up with that roster next year, John Wall is gone. He will have already booked his flight by November.

[Gator Bait]

A proven NBA starter will have to want to play here for that to happen.

players don't have choices in trades (most of the time) and it's not like the guy would quite playing...you are always trying to get that next big payday

---------- Post added February-22nd-2012 at 09:55 PM ----------

Im going to play the hypothetical here. If we let McGee walk' date=' kick NY and Rashard out, and jettison Blatche, how do we keep this team competitive next year? Turiaf isnt coming back. Mason Jr wont be coming back. And i am not sure of the situation with Mo Evans, but i doubt he would come back either.

PG: Wall, Mack

SG: Crawford

SF: Singleton, Vesely

PF: Booker

C: Seraphin

That would be our roster! I can guarandamntee if we show up with that roster next year, John Wall is gone. He will have already booked his flight by November.[/quote']

There is ZERO chance John isn't here for another 5 years (unless for some reason we traded him) high level players don't pass on max extensions.

[Skin'emAlive]

If you think he cant force his way out of here, you are wrong. No one likes to lose, let alone get embarrassed night in and night out. We have to see improvement in this team next year. Have to. Its not even a maybe. And i mean improvement in all facets of the game. Better coaching. Better GM. Smarter players. Better shooting. We just flat out suck and have little to no value at any position outside of Wall. McGee to me is the next valuable player on this team, and that is a distant second. What a terrible predicament to be in for a young star. How can the Clippers got from suck city to one of the best in the nba in 2 years time, while we dick around and pretend Seraphin/Booker/Vesely/Singleton can pick up the slack. The ****ing clippers have turned around like 20 years of suck in 2 years, and we are still just trying to not get embarrassed each night.

[Samuels]

We need a no BS defensive minded vet coach, i'm telling you guys that alone will improve this team alot. But getting one to take on these ragtags is the bigger problem.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

We need a no BS defensive minded vet coach, i'm telling you guys that alone will improve this team alot. But getting one to take on these ragtags is the bigger problem.

I'm going to be bitter for the rest of my life if Tom Thibodeau wins a ring in Chicago. ****ing Eddie.

[Skin'emAlive]

We need a no BS defensive minded vet coach, i'm telling you guys that alone will improve this team alot. But getting one to take on these ragtags is the bigger problem.

Well we had a vet coach. The problem with that is that we have to many dumbasses on this team, so it didnt work. Sure you can bench a player when he gets dumb. But if you replace him with an incompetent player, or another dumbass you are doomed. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED

[SiCkSoULjA]

If you think he cant force his way out of here' date=' you are wrong. No one likes to lose, let alone get embarrassed night in and night out. We have to see improvement in this team next year. Have to. Its not even a maybe. And i mean improvement in all facets of the game. Better coaching. Better GM. Smarter players. Better shooting. We just flat out suck and have little to no value at any position outside of Wall. McGee to me is the next valuable player on this team, and that is a distant second. What a terrible predicament to be in for a young star. How can the Clippers got from suck city to one of the best in the nba in 2 years time, while we dick around and pretend Seraphin/Booker/Vesely/Singleton can pick up the slack. The ****ing clippers have turned around like 20 years of suck in 2 years, and we are still just trying to not get embarrassed each night.[/quote']

Wow I feel your pain

[Destino]

McGee is what people are talking about?! Did I see the wrong game? Nick Young gets 35 minutes and goes 6-23. 4 perimeter players for the kings get double figures (including their three highest scorers) and McGee is the problem....

I can't watch Nick Young and Lewis get this many minutes much more. It's disgusting.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Destino

[chipwhich]

We need a no BS defensive minded vet coach, i'm telling you guys that alone will improve this team alot. But getting one to take on these ragtags is the bigger problem.

The problem with this team has NOTHING to do with coaching. That is ludicrous.

It's the NBA not high school bball.

[StillUnknown]

McGee is what people are talking about?! Did I see the wrong game? Nick Young gets 35 minutes and goes 6-23. 4 perimeter players for the kings get double figures (including their three highest scorers) and McGee is the problem....

I can't watch Nick Young and Lewis get this many minutes much more. It's disgusting.

I pretty much ignore the people who won't be back next season. McGee is still up in the air, so I focus alot of my attention to him. Nick is gone IMO and I can't see them allowing Rashard to stick around another year.

[SiCkSoULjA]

McGee is what people are talking about?! Did I see the wrong game? Nick Young gets 35 minutes and goes 6-23. 4 perimeter players for the kings get double figures (including their three highest scorers) and McGee is the problem....

I can't watch Nick Young and Lewis get this many minutes much more. It's disgusting.

The man is untouchable on this board, I pointed out at half time he was 4-14 0 boards, 0 assist, 0 steals, and zero blocks and I didn't even get a reply, had that been McGee or at worst Blatche it would have been a uproar. I am also tired of Nick Young bull**** after game interviews he's the first one that jumps on the camera and he gives stupid responses while he smile.

Edited February 23, 2012 by SiCkSoULjA

[Going Commando]

McGee is what people are talking about?! Did I see the wrong game? Nick Young gets 35 minutes and goes 6-23. 4 perimeter players for the kings get double figures (including their three highest scorers) and McGee is the problem....

I can't watch Nick Young and Lewis get this many minutes much more. It's disgusting.

Who goes in for them though? The bench is just as bad, if not worse. At least NY and Rashard can hit open shots. Our 2-4 is an unbearable right now. Vesely and Singleton may be keepers but it's years before they can contribute as quality starters and/or reserves.

For those worried about Wall walking because of incompetent play from the teammates, I don't think that's his mentality right now because Wall is a big part of why we are losing. He makes too many bad decisions with the ball, too many mistakes, for us to be a winning team. His turnovers are back breaking and his slashing and mid range offense are coming along soooo slowly. His defense is inconsistent and the worst part is that it feels like an issue of effort. He's not a high IQ player right now. I watch a game and Vesely is the only player on the team doing good things, off the ball and on defense, on a regular basis and he's the rookie that can't shoot, can't shoot FTs, and can't handle the ball.

When the offense went into a meltdown in the third and fourth quarter, we have no go to scoring option to create for themselves and battle and keep us in the game. Booker can not be a starter on a team like ours. He can't create shots and score. He's a short, poor man's Kendrick Perkins. He needs to be coming off the bench, as do Singleton and Nick Young. McGee and Wall are 50-50 players right now in that for every stunning thing they do the next possession will probably be something stupid.

****! This is a frustrating team to watch. Things have to get better as the team ages. But I watch our team and can't help but think there are college freshman out there right now with higher understandings of the game than nearly everyone on our team. What a ****ty job our organization has done at developing our young talent thus far.

---------- Post added February-23rd-2012 at 12:19 AM ----------

Nick Young 4-12, 0 assist, 0 steals, 0 blocks, and 0 rebounds in 16 minutes

Crawford is on fire but never mind that in 14 minutes he has 2 assist, 2 rebounds and 1 steal

It's amazing how Nick Young doesn't do more he has great size at 6"6 good quickness he doesn't even try too rebound or pass.

Nick Young is soft and flashy, plain and simple. When I played tennis we called guys like him Shot Artists. Their first concern is making the beautiful, original play. Winning comes second.

Has NY ever, ONCE in his career given what anyone would consider a gritty performance? No.

He's a ****ing loser and you can't win with a starting two guard like that. He, Blatche, and Rashard all need to go. You know, I actually feel bad lumping Rashard in with Blatche and Young. At least he's somewhat professional and seems to understand the game. But that doesn't make him any less of a millstone strangling our progress.

Let NY walk, Amnesty Blatche, buy out Rashard. I'd rather be bad with players who care than be bad with losers like NY and Blatche.

[Samuels]

Who goes in for them though? The bench is just as bad, if not worse. At least NY and Rashard can hit open shots. Our 2-4 is an unbearable right now. Vesely and Singleton may be keepers but it's years before they can contribute as quality starters and/or reserves.

For those worried about Wall walking because of incompetent play from the teammates, I don't think that's his mentality right now because Wall is a big part of why we are losing. He makes too many bad decisions with the ball, too many mistakes, for us to be a winning team. His turnovers are back breaking and his slashing and mid range offense are coming along soooo slowly. His defense is inconsistent and the worst part is that it feels like an issue of effort. He's not a high IQ player right now. I watch a game and Vesely is the only player on the team doing good things, off the ball and on defense, on a regular basis and he's the rookie that can't shoot, can't shoot FTs, and can't handle the ball.

When the offense went into a meltdown in the third and fourth quarter, we have no go to scoring option to create for themselves and battle and keep us in the game. Booker can not be a starter on a team like ours. He can't create shots and score. He's a short, poor man's Kendrick Perkins. He needs to be coming off the bench, as do Singleton and Nick Young. McGee and Wall are 50-50 players right now in that for every stunning thing they do the next possession will probably be something stupid.

****! This is a frustrating team to watch. Things have to get better as the team ages. But I watch our team and can't help but think there are college freshman out there right now with higher understandings of the game than nearly everyone on our team. What a ****ty job our organization has done at developing our young talent thus far.

It is effort for Wall on defense he dogs it. When he wants to guard he can very well. All the coaches wanna do is yell run run like we are track team leading to more TO's. That alot of why we don't defend we are basically playing park basketball.

The offensive sets suck. These guys don't even know how to stop the ball there rotations are so screwed up, can't defend the pick&roll.

I'd bet anything with a coach like Carlisle, Thibs, JVG this team would win 10 more games. The offensive sets are organized, they get you into good plays out of timeouts to stop the bleeding. There guys understand rotations and force the ball to help.

What we have right now is no strict defensive system in place. We have alot of run run and 1 on 1 ISO's as the base of our offense.

[Destino]

I'll stick to my guns. Wall and McGee are the only starters that should be kept. SG, SF, and PF need new starters.

[Going Commando]

Russell Westbrook is a better comparison to Wall. They play the same position and have closer production than a comparison of Wall to Durant. We aren't missing the Westbrook....we are missing the Durant.

Wall isn't even close to as good as Durant was his second year in the league this year.

Durant scored 25pts per game his second year in the league on 47% shooting...that is an all-star. Wall is not an all-star.

The year OKC did break into the playoffs, Durant averaged 30pts per game on 47% shooting and Westbrook averaged 16-8. It is likely that Wall will average 16-8 next year (he'll actually probably be a bit better than that) but there is no one on this team capable of averaging 30 pts per game on this roster.

We are nothing like the thunder and Wall isn't half the impact player Durant is.

I compared Wall and Durant in so far as they were the franchise caliber players for each team.

Wall should be expected to progress much slower than Durant because he's a PG and Durant is a scoring and rebounding wing. Wings develop faster than any other position and PGs take a long time to master the position. But Wall can have just as much an impact as young KD, if not more, because he has the ball in his hands so much. It's all about his slashing. He's an average slasher right now with the tools to become a masterful one--the best one in the league. If he does that, then Wall is easily a 20-10 point with just as much value to a franchise as a 27 PPG superstar wing like Durant.

We don't have a Westbrook on the team insofar as we don't have a second option. But Westbrook was kind of a prayer when you think about it. He was a project with a great body but it's not like he was a can't miss type prospect. Seeing Westbrook bloom through the type of development program OKC put in place actually encourages me. High potential/low skill guys actually can make it.

It's just I don't have an ounce of faith in our franchise's ability to develop and teach young talent.

We also have nothing at all like Perkins or Harden in terms of team first glue guys with offensive and defensive assertiveness and creativity to give us balance.

I don't think we should be selling off our lotto pick this year for a veteran like you do. I don't like the veteran options that are realistic for us.

I'd be trying to package some of these young role player pieces we've got (Singleton, Vesely, Booker, Crawford, Young) for veteran role players that already know how to play (like a Kendrick Perkins type) and then I'd use that lotto pick this draft to try and find a d aifference maker like Davis or MKG.

Our team's intangibles blow.

[Warhead36]

I'll stick to my guns. Wall and McGee are the only starters that should be kept. SG, SF, and PF need new starters.

I'd keep McGee only because Cs are so hard to find. Even though he's a complete and total dumbass, he's still at worst an average C based on his #s. Getting rid of him would just create an even bigger hole on top of all the other ones we have.

We absolutely NEED more offense from our 2-4 spots. Thankfully this year's draft is littered with talent at those positions. A guy like Barnes would be awesome next to Wall, a legit scorer.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

The man is untouchable on this board, I pointed out at half time he was 4-14 0 boards, 0 assist, 0 steals, and zero blocks and I didn't even get a reply, had that been McGee or at worst Blatche it would have been a uproar. I am also tired of Nick Young bull**** after game interviews he's the first one that jumps on the camera and he gives stupid responses while he smile.

Nick Young is absolutely irrelevant to me. Borrowed time.

[MonkFan8]

Am I missing something or are people defending Nick in here? McGee and Nick are pretty much in the same boat to me. You don't win with dumb players, it's just too bad our bench is comprised of mostly D-league caliber players at this point.

If you missed it, watch Wittman's post game press conference. He sounds exasperated and while I definitely don't agree with some of his coaching moves, he is 100% on point here. Unfortunately I don't think the best coaching in the world can turn some of these players around. Ernie really bears the brunt of the blame for constructing this low-IQ team that lacks basic basketball knowledge.

Edited February 23, 2012 by MonkFan8

[Skin'emAlive]

Am I missing something or are people defending Nick in here? McGee and Nick are pretty much in the same boat to me. You don't win with dumb players, it's just too bad our bench is comprised of mostly D-league caliber players at this point.

I dont think anyone has defended nick young this year. In the past, yes he has gotten alot of support. But this year i think the tables have finally turned. I have been off the bandwagon 2 years ago.

However, i dont agree with the " cant win with dumb players " thing. You can win. But you are only allowed to have 1 dumb player. 1. No more than that on the court at the same time. That one dumb player is McGee. We currently have like half a roster of dumb players. Thats a problem.

Also... i dont think people dislike Rashard Lewis. He seems to be a professional. He is just on his last legs. Dude is old, not much you can do about that right now. Will be better when he is gone and we can replace him with a better SF. But i dont dislike him. He came here under a crappy situation in the first place.

[Destino]

If the topic is dumb lets talk about the 360 layup and the tech for trash talking a payer on the opposing teams bench. Let's talk about waiving off screens and trying to be the hero while getting dominated on the other end of the floor in crunch time.

McGee hold be a footnote following this game and mybe some face pluming over his angry goaltend ollowing a dirty foul (that got him benched).

[RemoveSnyder]

I haven't been following the thread in awhile, but has the topic ever floated to Ronnie Lester and the various long tenured scouts of the old-guard Lakers org, whom have been fired, released?

---------- Post added February-23rd-2012 at 02:44 AM ----------

As far as I recall (double check), Sloan was coaching the Bulls during Lester's first few years.

[Going Commando]

Why isn't Mo Evans playing? Is he injured?

[SiCkSoULjA]

Everytime JaVale does something stupid the coaches and everybody jumps off there ass, he gets takin out the game immediately which is fine. But not everyone here is held too the same Standard Nick Young does the most acrobatic shots I have ever seen a player do and misses 60 percent of them but I never see him get takin out the game. The damn 360 reverse lay up the announcers say O WHAT A GREAT ACROBATIC move by Nick Young even though he doinks it off the bottom of the rim, did he get takin out? No! Hey Young how about takin it hard at the defender who was out of position and would have a great chance at a foul. McGee does the stupid goaltend and Phil says O NO!! Does he have too do a cart wheel shot before he's takin out the game or will that be another amazing move by Nick Young.

McGee you can question his desison making but he brings it almost every game he's running up and down trying too block shots and be effective some how. He also evey year trys too work on something his hook shot maybe one day he can perfect it. Young has been the same player since he been in the league and now that he's shooting horribly he's killing the team.

John Wall he brings it every game his turnovers are a issue, but he's trying too shoot better shots, slow down some, he's blocking shoots and getting rebounds.

Nick got damn Young stands around he doesn't rebound at all doesn't even try, hey let's pass the ball ball sometime hell if your getting doubled teamed somebody has too be open right.

Edited February 23, 2012 by SiCkSoULjA

[RonArtest15]

With this whole double-standard thing w. McGee....what repercussion did Wall have for earning a tech for jawing w. a dude on the bench (Thomas) last night? McGee does some bone-head things and gets raked over the coals...however, there is little-to-no criticism of Wall for doing the same selfish things.

Anyways...

Wizards need to hit a home run with the draft or through free agency. It's an absolute must. Someone needs to be brought in to compliment Wall and help make his life a little easier. I've lightened up on my stance on McGee (for now) and realize that his struggles a few weeks ago were probably due to his asthma. He's stepped it up as of late and I do think he's a guy that we need to hold on to. I swear...I'm hot/cold with him, but after stepping back and looking at his play...guys like him are hard to come by and he should be retained. He's young and contrary to belief, he's getting better.

Another thing, Nick Young can go. He's 1-dimensional and has obviously reached his ceiling. I think he'd be an asset on a playoff contending team where he could come off the bench. If I was EG, I would look to bring in one of these two guys next year. 1) Ray Allen. Dude can still play at 37/38 years old and he's one of the best conditioned players in the NBA who could easily hoop into his early 40s. I think he'd be a wonderful addition to this roster to teach these young guys about professionalism and how to prepare for games. Roger Mason, peace.

2) Eric GOrdon. He's coming off an injury, but I don't think he'll be back in NO. He'd be another nice compliment to Wall and his potential is MUCH greater than Nick young. I think he'll only be 24 this year if I'm not mistaken.

[Gator Bait]

I compared Wall and Durant in so far as they were the franchise caliber players for each team.

At this point in his career, Wall isn't even close to what Durant was at that point in his career. Durant was Batman from year one....we still don't know if Wall is Batman or Robin. I think he's batman, but we don't know yet.

Wall should be expected to progress much slower than Durant because he's a PG and Durant is a scoring and rebounding wing. Wings develop faster than any other position and PGs take a long time to master the position.

Agree to a certain extent, but that doesn't change the fact that Durant was better than Wall from Day one ( just looking at him as a basketball player and not taking positions into consideration)

But Wall can have just as much an impact as young KD, if not more, because he has the ball in his hands so much. It's all about his slashing. He's an average slasher right now with the tools to become a masterful one--the best one in the league. If he does that, then Wall is easily a 20-10 point with just as much value to a franchise as a 27 PPG superstar wing like Durant.

That's a lot of "ifs" and I take a 48% 27 ppg guy over a 20-10 PG who is a poor shooter any day. ****....I'd take that 48% 27 ppg guy over a 20-10 48% guy.

Lets look at some examples of 20-10 type guys (or guys that are close to that mold) and then we'll look at efficient high scoring players:

Scorers: Durant, Jordan, Kobe

PG: Paul, Nash, Dwill

Jordan won 6 championships as the man; Kobe won 5 Championships.....2 being the man and 3 being the sidekick. This is just an opinion, but I think Durant wins multiple championships before his career is over and I think he'd be a top 2 player taken on anyone's list if you could have any player in the nba. Some might take LeBron James first......If I was starting an NBA franchise tomorrow and I could start that franchise w/ any current player in the NBA...I'm taking KD.

Chris Paul...played for mediocre playoff teams when he was the man....good enough to get there, but not good enough to win there. Nash is one of the greatest PGs in history, but he never won a ring and he likely never will. Dwill is pretty much like a poor man's Paul. He was able to make it to the playoffs when he had a decent sidekick and a great coach, but w/o a legit Batman, he will never sniff a championship.

I'd welcome you to throw out recent comparisons in modern NBA that prove my theory wrong, but I'm taking the efficient scorer over the PG any day.

We don't have a Westbrook on the team insofar as we don't have a second option.

Wall is a second option....he needs an efficient 20ppg player to pass to.

But Westbrook was kind of a prayer when you think about it. He was a project with a great body but it's not like he was a can't miss type prospect. Seeing Westbrook bloom through the type of development program OKC put in place actually encourages me. High potential/low skill guys actually can make it.

I'll agree that Westbrook wasn't a can't miss player, but he sure as hell wasn't a prayer or a project as you call him. He was a high lottery pick expected to produce right out of the gate. was he KD or Blake Griffin? No, but he sure wasn't as low on the food chain as you make him sound.

It's just I don't have an ounce of faith in our franchise's ability to develop and teach young talent.

agree...that's why we need to trade for a legit vet.

We also have nothing at all like Perkins or Harden in terms of team first glue guys with offensive and defensive assertiveness and creativity to give us balance.

That's another difference between them and us....they started this rebuild with Ray Allen, who they turned into a high lottery pick that ended up becoming Perkins. Pretty much what I'm saying is they had more assets to start out with than we did...we had nothing.

I don't think we should be selling off our lotto pick this year for a veteran like you do. I don't like the veteran options that are realistic for us.

to each their own opinion...you could be right, but I'd rather bring in someone who can start to turn this team around from day one.

I'd be trying to package some of these young role player pieces we've got (Singleton, Vesely, Booker, Crawford, Young) for veteran role players that already know how to play (like a Kendrick Perkins type)

I agree, although I don't think any of the guys you listed have much value right now.

and then I'd use that lotto pick this draft to try and find a d aifference maker like Davis or MKG.

neither of these guys are going to be big time difference makers. Davis has no offensive game....that is what we need.....an offensive player.