Thinking Skins Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Read the post over again. Good teams would actually be looking to clear cap space by trading for Shard's deal--meaning they'd have something of reasonable quality they're trying to get rid of in return for Shard's expiring contract.I did not say the Wizards would make a run at Howard themselves. I said Shard's deal is much more valuable than what we got in return for it. What you say has value, but I'm of the opinion that we were trying to get rid of this deal (player) and replace him with somebody (some bodies) that could and would contribute in a positive manner. I understand the statements about the value of the cap room provided by Lewis, but are you overvaluing that? Nobody wanted to touch this guy. And I know I didn't want him near this team next year as he was only holding up a roster spot that could go towards a player who actually contributes. Back when we traded for Nene, I was thinking along similar lines, that we replaced two guys (McGee and Young) who were locker room cancers for a guy who was going to come in and play hard and provide a positive locker room. I understand that we're limiting ourselves as far as free agency this offseason and next, but when's the last time we brought in a big free agent here? Was it Jamison? Is that from lack of trying, lack of having the money, or lack of interest from players. I've just settled on the Wizards not being a team that's attractive. What I didn't want was to overpay for a Gordon and then be locked into that deal for the next 5-6 seasons. At least this way we're only locked in for 2 years, and if (as you say) expiring contracts are such a high value, then we've just set ourselves up for a trade next year because these guys will then have expiring contracts and so we can bring in something. The difference is that its inarguable that Lewis brought NOTHING to this team. Both Okafur and Ariza have been good in the past. They have injury histories as well and so potentially they can help us improve enough this season that free agents start looking at Washington as a place to come and as John Wall as a strong leader on this team. I think that's the main think we need to be looking for right now. We need to see how far Wall can take this team. In my opinion, we're working with house money because Lewis wasn't a player who was gonna contribute, and I never had any wild dreams of us being all active in free agency. Even if we were active, I was fearful that we'd make the same mistakes we made with Blatche in falling in love with some promising young guy who doesn't have a history of producing, but did enough lately to demand a high dollar and is willing to come here, only to underperform. I mean that's kinda what we got with Ariza, but its only a 2 year deal, so it doesn't sting nearly as bad as something like Blatche's deal did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Looks like our best sources of offense next season is going to be: 1.) Wall and Crawford creating around the basket off the dribble--neither all that efficiently 2.) A very respectable faceup game from Nene and Okafor. Nene finds his way to the line well and can score pretty well in iso post up situations. Okafor is more of a pure faceup shooter than Nene judging by his numbers. His consistency on close range and mid range jumpers is actually high quality. 3.) A super efficient Kevin Seraphin jump hook that he is capable of getting off in ISO situations. 4.) Spot up shooting from Brad Beal assuming we draft him (not totally comfortable assuming this). Efficiency here would be anyone's guess. 5.) Transition buckets. Our three best scorers are Nene, Seraphin, and Okafor. I agree with No Excuses that our roster is very unbalanced right now. Our inside scoring is actually pretty good now. It's efficient and varied. But our perimeter scoring is still terrible to the point it offsets what we do well in the frontcourt--we won't feature a good offense next year without some of our poor shooters drastically improving. We're probably the worst shooting team in the league last season. We were arguably the worst jump shooting team in the league. This is an area we really needed to improve. If Ariza and Okafor truly make a difference on D, and if we draft Beal and he comes in and defends well, then we should definitely win more games. We were bottom third of the league in defense last season, the perimeter defense was bad, and for most of the year, the post defense was too. But how many more? Perimeter and post defense were probably our third and fourth biggest needs after perimeter shooting and rebounding. I'm really interested to see what we do in the draft and how we deal with some of our excess forwards. I'm going to be troubled if we don't draft or acquire a shooter because we're reaching critical mass with our shooting problems. I know coaches and GMs don't like to focus on makes and misses because it puts unproductive pressure on players to make shots. But I think we've taken that to mean you should ignore shooting ability. How is it that we've assembled a team full of guys where a ten day contract player like Cartier Martin is the only guy on the team who shoot from range with any respectability? This is a team wide problem. If we do make the playoffs off of D and hustle some time within the next two years, we're going to be like Philly was--have to catch all the right breaks to win games and we're going to get bounced eventually because we can't shoot. There are just so many brought about by this deal IMO. I've been trying to figure it out from every angle possible and I just can't come up with a take where the gains convincingly outweigh the losses. The core justification for it that I keep coming back to is that we're punting the next two offseasons to see if we can make a modest run with this group. That line of thinking is so foreign to me as to be nearly incomprehensible. Why not try and build a sustainable and legit run from the get go like the Thunder did. Presti's goal when he set out was to build sustainability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 John Wall will not resign here if next year is another circus. I can guarantee that. We hold his bird rights and can match any offer he gets. Unless of course he chooses not to accept any long term deals, signs the minimum tender and becomes a UFA the following season. But I'm sure he'll stay. Our GM has such a solid track record, I don't see why not. Ernie has been making such good moves that we're perhaps the only rebuilding team ever that's actually gotten worse in the win department over the course of the rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Are you sure about that? Nene was under contract for us last season, I thought anyone under contract for us last season was eligible. only players signed before the 2011-12 season can be amnestied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 only players signed before the 2011-12 season can be amnestied. Goddamn. I thought it was during the 2011-2012 season, not before. Well Blatche is the only candidate left then. I imagine he'll be amnestied soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Read The Wizards' trade for Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza looks like a short-sighted grab for wins. It is. But it's also an admission that it'll be a while before the NBA's market fixes actually mean something to the teams that lack glamour and good players.Follow @sbnation on Twitter, and Like SBNation.com on Facebook. Jun 21, 2012 - The Washington Wizards' trade for Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza -- two proven vets who are undeniably overpaid, derive their value from hard-to-measure defense and are good enough to demand major minutes -- completes the club's shift from one rebuilding completely through the NBA draft to one ready to start winning some games. The Wizards have been bad for a long time. Back in 2009, the Wizards, Clippers and Kings were the three worst teams in the league. Only the Clips, thanks to the weirdest trade saga ever, have climbed out. Washington won't be picking in the top five next year after this trade. But it's certainly not a trade that mandates a playoff berth, either. The Wizards didn't trade for an All-Star, and this erases a lot of planned cap space that could have been used in attempts to pry younger, better players away from their clubs. Our Mike Prada broke down the salary cap implications of the deal over at Bullets Forever, SB Nation's Wizards blog. Essentially, this trade combined with the Nene deal consummated in March erases any major cap space that Washington would have had heading into the 2012 or 2013 free agency periods. (This is the case even if the club uses the amnesty clause on Andray Blatche, as expected.) This trade was a concession, an admission that the likelihood of a team like the Wizards could not use that cap space for players better than Nene, Okafor and Ariza. What a sober determination to make at this point. But if any team needs to be sober about the way out of the cellar, it's Washington. (Sacramento, too. But please don't get me started on that.) http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/6/21/3105430/washington-wizards-trade-emeka-okafor-trevor-ariza-hook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Did you actually read what he posted or just saw 'Dwight Howard' and assumed that he's saying DH12 should sign with the Wizards? My bad. I'm on my iPhone and the print was very small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Goddamn. I thought it was during the 2011-2012 season, not before.Well Blatche is the only candidate left then. I imagine he'll be amnestied soon. these quotes from Grunfeld make it seem like unless he's dealt, Blatche is sticking around: http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/20/3104348/wizards-hornets-trade-ernie-grunfeld-trevor-ariza-emeka-okafor On why they didn't just buy out Lewis' contract: "It would have been for a player that doesn't give you anything. This way, you get two players that are going to give you something on the court at positions we wanted to fill, and we get those players at a pretty good price for the first year especially, in light of that buyout we were going to have to pay to Rashard." On how this affects Andray Blatche's future: "I don't think it affects Andray Blatche's status. He's still under contract with us." Not sure how they work it out financially, but Ted's made it pretty clear, he's not just cutting a check for the sake of expediency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Grading the Wizards/Hornets deal: For a guy who loves math and statistics, John Hollinger sure has trouble figuring out how the salary cap works. In his piece ridiculing the Washington Wizards for their trade of Rashard Lewis and the #46 pick to New Orleans in exchange for Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza, Hollinger laments the “fact” that the trade kills Washington’s chances of making a splash in the offseason this summer using their cap space.(“This effectively takes the Wizards out of any potential free-agent deals beyond the midlevel; additionally, it also takes them out of amnesty auction bids, or cap space trades, or any other maneuvers that rebuilding teams typically take to begin stockpiling talent.”) The problem with his analysis is that the Wizards never had that flexibility in the 2012 offseason to begin with. Let’s start with the basics: The Wizards have 10 contracts on their books for next season in the form of John Wall, Andray Blatche, Nene, Jan Vesely, Kevin Seraphin, Chris Singleton, Trevor Booker, Jordan Crawford, Shelvin Mack, and the No. 3 overall draft pick (which has a cap hold until the player signs). Even excluding Rashard Lewis entirely, that group will make a combined $39,377,297. Using the current salary cap figure as the estimate for 12-13, that would leave Washington with approximately $18.667 million to work with. Sounds good, right? http://basketball.realgm.com/article/221621/Grading_The_Deal_Wizards_Hornets_Shuffle_Contracts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Hollinger is a nerd who doesnt know anything about basketball. He probably doesnt watch games but instead just puts the box scores into his excel spreadsheet formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCchillin89 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) This is the one occasion where I firmly believe that the conglomerate of people who regularly post on this thread would be a better management team than Ernie and co. We have a foundation of Wall, Crawford, Vesely, Singleton, Nene. None of whom can shoot a lick with any consistency. Go into the offseason needing one thing: Shooting. And we trade for Ariza who will create a logjam at 3 and Okafor who will take minutes from Vesely and Seraphim. Neither of whom are a solution to the simple problem this team has. Oh yeah and take away all the cap space we had, for the next two years. A small Part of me wants to see the Beal get taken at 2 just so we can see Ernie squirm. Edited June 21, 2012 by DCchillin89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Readhttp://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/6/21/3105430/washington-wizards-trade-emeka-okafor-trevor-ariza-hook Thanks, that is a really good article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Apprently Ted is complaining to the DC council that the arena debt is putting him at a competitive disadvantage in the NBA lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 This is the one occasion where I firmly believe that the conglomerate of people who regularly post on this thread would be a better management team than Ernie and co.We have a foundation of Wall, Crawford, Vesely, Singleton, Nene. None of whom can shoot a lick with any consistency. Go into the offseason needing one thing: Shooting. And we trade for Ariza who will create a logjam at 3 and Okafor who will take minutes from Vesely and Seraphim. Neither of whom are a solution to the simple problem this team has. Oh yeah and take away all the cap space we had, for the next two years. A small Part of me wants to see the Beal get taken at 2 just so we can see Ernie squirm. Can you tell me what we were going to do with that cap space? As someone else posted...if you have cap space and are playing the FA game, players have to WANT to come to your city. If you acqurie players via trade, they have no choice but to play for you. All that cap space doesn't mean jack if we can't show that this team is on the upswing. Okafor/Ariza will only be here for 2 years, and hopefully well make a big improvement in our W/L record. Keep an eye on 2014. THat's when both of those guys will be gone and hopefully by then DC will be an attractive place for FAs to sign. Ariza is our best 3 right now. There is NO question about it. For all his offensive struggles, he gets it in defensively. Having Okafor now gives us the luxury of playing Nene more at the 4 and bringing Seraphin off the bench to spell either one of those guys. Development will not be hindered, IMO. We're going to be fine. This trade improved our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 We're going to be fine. This trade improved our team. We definitely improved the team, but to what end? Best case scenario for this roster is a 7th or 8th seed in the East. With little to no flexibility to substantially improve the roster the next 2 years. In all honesty, I would rather be terrible than to be stuck in basketball purgatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 In all honesty, I would rather be terrible than to be stuck in basketball purgatory. 2+ years of being terrible gets weary. We couldn't afford another year of a team full of nothing but ~22 year olds. I think the goal is to get better over the next two years and hope that by 2014 we're a playoff team and Wall has blossomed into a star. Then we'll have cap space to go out and get a big FA or two to push us over the top. As it stands, financial flexibility does us no good because nobody wants to come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Robert Griffin Experience Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 How is Okafor better than Seraphin? Or Booker? Or Nene? Or even Vesley? Yet, he'll get 20-25 minutes a game because of his contract. Ariza is a .48 TS% shotjacker. And we gave them a draft pick to take on their ****ty contracts. This is my reaction to the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) We definitely improved the team, but to what end?Best case scenario for this roster is a 7th or 8th seed in the East. With little to no flexibility to substantially improve the roster the next 2 years. In all honesty, I would rather be terrible than to be stuck in basketball purgatory. We've had one of the worst teams in the NBA for the past 3-4 years...if we end up as a 7/8 seed for the next 2 with Ariza and Okafor on the roster, you wouldn't be happy with that? And we have no flexibility for moves via FA (as it stands)...we can still do some things through trades. I don't get the doom and gloom with this deal at all. This trade can potentially make us a team on the upswing who will have cap space in 2014 to hopefully lure players here to play with John Wall & Co. There's going to be pressure to improve on that 7/8 seed standing and NOT have us as a carbon copy of a team like the Hawks/Knicks who are tied into some awful, crippling deals. Like I said in another post, SHORT TERM, this is a good move. Where it goes after the next two years remains to be seen. I'm cool with it. Edited June 21, 2012 by RonArtest15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) 2+ years of being terrible gets weary. We couldn't afford another year of a team full of nothing but ~22 year olds. I think the goal is to get better over the next two years and hope that by 2014 we're a playoff team and Wall has blossomed into a star. Then we'll have cap space to go out and get a big FA or two to push us over the top. As it stands, financial flexibility does us no good because nobody wants to come here. Ted told us having Wall would entice FA's to come here. What line is he going to spin next? I think I would've preferred no deal to the move we made. I mean we're putting the next 2 years of what is supposed to be competitive basketball in the hands of a coach with a .331 winning percentage. He was re-signed with the goal building on the mirage that was the end of last season, is there anybody that really thinks he's ready to coach what management is expecting to be a playoff team? Edited June 21, 2012 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 How is Okafor better than Seraphin? Or Booker? Or Nene? Or even Vesley? Yet, he'll get 20-25 minutes a game because of his contract. Ariza is a .48 TS% shotjacker. And we gave them a draft pick to take on their ****ty contracts.This is my reaction to the trade. A draft pick....bro, it was #46. Let's see if that pick is even in the NBA a year from now. Having Okafor allows us the luxury of playing Nene at the 4. We now have an interchangeable rotation of 4/5 players in Nene, Okafor, and Seraphin. 2/3 guys can be on the floor together at all times. We've NEVER had that type of depth. This is a good thing. Ariza's true asset is going to be his defense. Yes, he'll have to improve on his shooting, but hopefully he'll get a lot of easy buckets in transition or off of cuts with Wall as his PG. Someone pointed out yesterday (on twitter) that Ariza's shot selection/quality improved last year...let's x our fingers that he can continue that trend. ---------- Post added June-21st-2012 at 12:20 PM ---------- Ted told us having Wall would entice FA's to come here. What line is he going to spin next?I think I would've preferred no deal to the move we made. I mean we're putting the next 2 years of what is supposed to be competitive basketball in the hands of a coach with a .331 winning percentage. He was re-signed with the goal building on the mirage that was the end of last season, is there anybody that really thinks he's ready to coach what management is expecting to be a playoff team?. Well, let's be realistic.... Having Wall helps. Having Wall PLUS a winning team helps even more. I'm telling you...2014 is going to be the year. We're going to be much improved over the next two seasons. This is what we wanted, right? Wizards were a laughing stock...Nene was brought in to help restore some sense of respectibility with this franchise. All of these moves are geared towards the "culture change." Almost complete...just gotta get rid of blachte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Grading the Wizards/Hornets deal:http://basketball.realgm.com/article/221621/Grading_The_Deal_Wizards_Hornets_Shuffle_Contracts Something about the math in that article seems off. If we were already screwed on the cap with Lewis having a 13million dollar cap figure (buy out) how does replacing that number with $20,898,960 (combined salaries of Ariza and Okafor in the first year) create an improved situation or even nuetral? Also I have no idea what he's trying to say here: Keeping all that in mind, the only ways the Wizards were going to be able to do the amnesty auction bids, cap space trades, or “any other maneuvers” Hollinger discussed would have been by burning their amnesty card on a bought-out Rashard Lewis or eating the remainder of Andray Blatche’s deal except whatever either got in the amnesty bid process. It seems like he's suggesting that the only way the wizards would have cap space is buying out Lewis and using the Amnesty on Blatche. Isn't that what everyone expected them to do in the first place? Who else would the Wizards save the Amnesty for exactly? Edited June 21, 2012 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'm here in Charlotte and I've heard alot of conflicting reports as to who they will take. I've heard Drummond one week, then it goes to MKG, then Robinson. I'm just not sure who the hell they want at this point. ---------- Post added June-21st-2012 at 12:45 PM ---------- I'm telling you...2014 is going to be the year. We're going to be much improved over the next two seasons. This is what we wanted, right? Wizards were a laughing stock...Nene was brought in to help restore some sense of respectibility with this franchise. All of these moves are geared towards the "culture change." Almost complete...just gotta get rid of blachte. Well, if 2014 is going to be "the year," I want a title contender. I've been teased with low-seeds and 1st/2nd round eliminations throughout the 80s and late 90s (Webber/Howard/Strickland teams). I don't want an "improved" team, I want a great team. Quite frankly, I'm just sick of watching this team in a constant rebuild. Anything less than 50 wins and a 2nd round win is a failure IMO. Disco balls, flared pants and the Bee Gees were popular the last time we won it. I was 9 and now I'm 44. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Wonderful.Does anyone think that's actually going to work? Nene, Beal, Vesely, and pray John takes the rookie max extension because he has't figured out yet that he's wasting his career here... Then maybe we can start from square one everywhere else. Why are we putting this off two years with lousy veteran stop gaps? Why were Ernie and Wittman extended again? If Wall shows up with a jump shot and Beal proves to be the shooter we saw in the tournament as opposed to the shooter he was for three months his freshman year the team might not be that bad. If however Wall still can't shoot and Beal isn't the great shooter people think he'll be... this team is going to be frighteningly hard to watch. BTW: About Beal's dribbling skills. :shutup: After he weighed in at around the same weight as Rivers despite looking much larger I suspected he was off balance in terms of his build (top heavy). Watching him dribble in that video you can plainly see that he is. He's leaning ahead of his legs on the dribble and he's clearly off balance on stops and changes of direction. That would also explain his lack of explosiveness and apparent athleticism on the court. IMO he's been working the "get women" muscle groups a lot more than the core and legs that everyone hates doing. Edited June 21, 2012 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'm here in Charlotte and I've heard alot of conflicting reports as to who they will take. I've heard Drummond one week, then it goes to MKG, then Robinson. I'm just not sure who the hell they want at this point.---------- Post added June-21st-2012 at 12:45 PM ---------- Well, if 2014 is going to be "the year," I want a title contender. I've been teased with low-seeds and 1st/2nd round eliminations throughout the 80s and late 90s (Webber/Howard/Strickland teams). I don't want an "improved" team, I want a great team. Quite frankly, I'm just sick of watching this team in a constant rebuild. Anything less than 50 wins and a 2nd round win is a failure IMO. Disco balls, flared pants and the Bee Gees were popular the last time we won it. I was 9 and now I'm 44. Title contender in 2014? HIGHLY doubt it. I just want this team to keep trending upwards. Ultimate goal is to be a title contender in due time. Let's make the playoffs first LOL. Like I said, I think that's a realistic goal with this current crop of guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Like I said, I think that's a realistic goal with this current crop of guys. Realistic isn't the word I'd use. Overly optimistic is fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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