The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[RonArtest15]

This argument always gets tossed out on message boards and it's always a ridiculous one.

We don't know what he could have done because we don't work in a front office. But we know what he DID do. And it kind of stinks, and his record over the years shows that he's more likely to make the wrong move than the right one.

You can say this EVERY time a GM makes a move. Hey Ernie Grunfeld just traded the #5 pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foye. How do you not know that something better was on the table? The next year, the #5 pick turns out to be Ray Allen for a much lesser prospect. A few years ago Kwame Brown had a big expiring contract. The Lakers turned it into Pau Gasol. We get Emeka Okafor. (The really funny thing about this is that the same year, Antawn Jamison had a much bigger expiring which we could have possibly used as well).

Someone is always getting the best out of him. Whether he's bidding against himself for DeShawn Stevenson, signing and overpaying for Darius Songaila, trading lottery picks, destroying cap clearing trade chips. this is how the Ernie excuse making works:

1. Abe did it.

2. Ted Leonsis wants him to do it.

3. Oh yeah, pfft what would you have done???

No, it's not a ridiculous one because we are proving that we are the debbie downer of fanbases. Seriously. Who else are we going to move Shard for...Kevin Durant...Lebron...Red Auerbach's cigar...who? Do you understand how lopsided the deal would be IF the #10 was thrown in?

Trading the #5 for Miller/Foye was idiotic. This doesn't even compare because there wasn't a high draft pick involved other than the #46, which is basically irrelevant.

You bring up the Gasol trade which has UNIVERSALLY be lauded as one of the most lopsided deals in NBA history. Yes...NBA history. This doesn't even compare. Again, I'll ask you...who is out there that you think we could have gotten for Shard?

This team will be the best, by a wide margin, in the Wall era. This is what we wanted, right? I mean, I just saw a question that was asked on twitter "would Wizards fans be happy w/ 35 win next year?" Ummmm....if your answer is anything other than "yes," you need to really think about the teams we've had here in the Wall era.

We're going to have to agree to disagree....only thing all sides on this issue can do is sit back and see how it plays out. Personally, i don't even think we're done with roster moves yet.

---------- Post added June-21st-2012 at 03:42 PM ----------

That's what I'm saying...we are a suck ass abyss of a franchise right now...we can't attract talented FAs and we don't have the pieces to trade for good players...we couldn't have a third pure **** season (that was probably the business thinking) so we tried to get a few veterans and are praying to God that John Wall takes that big leap this year. Gerald Green and ppl like that don't wanna take a FA deal with a team that has a -78 chance of making the playoffs

Exactly! That's how I'm looking at this as well. If it makes sense, we're going "all in" for the short term. This is a 2 year gamble (where we're already better on paper) with the hopes that everything will pay off by 2014.

[Going Commando]

If we drafted Beal, I make a run a Illyasova. He's not a big name, but he would be a good fit based on our needs. He probably commands 7-8mil per, but I'd be comfortable with that.

If we drafted MKG, I got after Illyasova still, but also Gerald Green or another shooting 2 guard.

I would much rather have gone full bore after Illyasova and been content with him & our draft pick as opposed to Okafor & Ariza.

I realize the common train of thought is that "nobody wants to come here" but part of the job of the GM is selling the destination, Ilyasova & Green are not huge names, he should at least be capable of bringing in one of the two.

I think the reason we didn't make a run at someone like Ilyasova is because we didn't want to have to give any FA more than two years. 7-8 million is a good dollar amount, it's the years that would have been problemaric.

[No Excuses]

We're going to have to agree to disagree....only thing all sides on this issue can do is sit back and see how it plays out. Personally, i don't even think we're done with roster moves yet.

I hope we have more moves on the way as well. To me, the money is (and never was) the issue. It's a roster fit. After watching the horrible spacing this team had last season (and the season before), I find it utterly ridiculous that we've basically locked ourselves into a situation where we don't even have an inches worth of maneuverability to make modifications. I would be OK if we had overpaid contract of someone like Ben Gordon, because Gordon has skills that this team badly needs.

But I agree, we'll see how it plays out. I personally don't think this team is capable of winning 35 games. I think with such horrendous balance of offensive skill, 35 wins is probably the ceiling. And teams like us generally fall short of that. I think we win somewhere between 25-35, most likely in the 29-33 range. I hope not because that's not a good place to be for a capped out team.

Edited June 21, 2012 by No Excuses

[RonArtest15]

I hope we have more moves on the way as well. To me, the money is (and never was) the issue. It's a roster fit. After watching the horrible spacing this team had last season (and the season before), I find it utterly ridiculous that we've basically locked ourselves into a situation where we don't even have an inches worth of maneuverability to make modifications. I would be OK if we had overpaid contract of someone like Ben Gordon, because Gordon has skills that this team badly needs.

But I agree, we'll see how it plays out. I personally don't think this team is capable of winning 35 games. I think with such horrendous balance of offensive skill, 35 wins is probably the ceiling. And teams like us generally fall short of that. I think we win somewhere between 25-35, most likely in the 29-33 range. I hope not because that's not a good place to be for a capped out team.

Fair enough....

I saw that over 82 games, the 2011-12 version of the Wizards would have won 25 games. I think we'll be 10+ wins better this year. Having a smarter team on the floor can make up for some of the offensive shortcomings that the roster currently has.

*FWIW, I think Ilyasova is going to be one of the hottest commodities on the FA market. He's going to parlay last season's success into a NICE paycheck.

Edited June 21, 2012 by RonArtest15

[Going Commando]

RonArtest, the problem with making roster moves now is we have so little flexibility. Preceding any signing, we ave to amnesty Blatche. Even then, our cap room to sign FAs is very small now.

Any more moves we make are almost certainly going to have to come in the form of trades. That's not ideal. We're kind of dealing from a position of weakness because we're against the cap and we have a desperate need for shooting. I don't want to have to lose a couple more trades just to try and get this offense into shipshape.

[No Excuses]

I would be OK with trading Trevor Booker, provided we get something useful in return. Players like him are a dime and dozen.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Let me just say that I am not saying that this trade makes us good or even passable but I think it's better than having a bunch of dumbass #5-#10 overall picks on the court again....

And just a random thought...why is their such a discrepancy between most rookies in football and basketball. It seems like NFL rookies are always more effective than the NBA's in most cases. A #15 pick in the NFL is a prime pick but its counterpart in the NBA is mostly a joke. I never understood that. If I was a NBA GM, I would maintain the Celtics approach and just stay with proven players while trying to score on that one Durant-like player in the draft and saying screw the rest of it for the most part

---------- Post added June-21st-2012 at 03:56 PM ----------

Fair enough....

I saw that over 82 games, the 2011-12 version of the Wizards would have won 25 games. I think we'll be 10+ wins better this year. Having a smarter team on the floor can make up for some of the offensive shortcomings that the roster currently has.

*FWIW, I think Ilyasova is going to be one of the hottest commodities on the FA market. He's going to parlay last season's success into a NICE paycheck.

OMG yes...The main thing for me is just to have a competent basketball team...last year's team was embarrassingly flat out stupid on the court. I had never seen such dumbassness on a pro team.

[RonArtest15]

RonArtest, the problem with making roster moves now is we have so little flexibility. Preceding any signing, we ave to amnesty Blatche. Even then, our cap room to sign FAs is very small now.

Any more moves we make are almost certainly going to have to come in the form of trades. That's not ideal. We're kind of dealing from a position of weakness because we're against the cap and we have a desperate need for shooting. I don't want to have to lose a couple more trades just to try and get this offense into shipshape.

I totally get that...but let's think about the types of FAs we would have gotten vs. who we brought in via trade. I think that's what it boils down tow. We now have to sit back and see how creative EG can get to address other needs on this roster through more trades.

From Chad Ford via BF

Barnes also had a strong workout in Washington on Tuesday. He went against John Shurna and Kris Joseph and by all accounts looked great. I do think he's an option for the Wizards at No. 3 if they decide to pass on Beal or if the Bobcats take Beal at No. 2. The Wizards believe Barnes can play some 2 and desperately need a great shooter.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/21/3108559/nba-draft-2012-bradley-beal-washington-wizards-harrison-barnes

It's no secret that Cleveland is enamored w. Barnes...this could be a smokescreen to TRY to pry the #24 from them in a Barnes/Beal swap.

[Hersh]

I totally get that...but let's think about the types of FAs we would have gotten vs. who we brought in via trade. I think that's what it boils down tow. We now have to sit back and see how creative EG can get to address other needs on this roster through more trades.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/21/3108559/nba-draft-2012-bradley-beal-washington-wizards-harrison-barnes

It's no secret that Cleveland is enamored w. Barnes...this could be a smokescreen to TRY to pry the #24 from them in a Barnes/Beal swap.

I don't get this line of thinking. When was the last time the Wiz tried to get a top tier FA here? I can't recall any all out tries recently.

[pjfootballer]

But I agree, we'll see how it plays out. I personally don't think this team is capable of winning 35 games. I think with such horrendous balance of offensive skill, 35 wins is probably the ceiling. And teams like us generally fall short of that. I think we win somewhere between 25-35, most likely in the 29-33 range. I hope not because that's not a good place to be for a capped out team.

And to me 29-33 wins is garbage or even 35. It just amazes me of how many ****y teams we put out on the court every year, yet we're always in cap hell. How? Who the hell are we paying to get us 19 wins? How are the Lakers, Heat, Mavs, Spurs, Bulls and Celtics able to get superstar players to sign with them and are never in cap hell, yet we are year in and year out? WTF? I really thought all this bull**** would go away once Abe died, but his spirit lives throught Leonsis and Ernie.

[RonArtest15]

And to me 29-33 wins is garbage or even 35. It just amazes me of how many ****y teams we put out on the court every year, yet we're always in cap hell. How? Who the hell are we paying to get us 19 wins? How are the Lakers, Heat, Mavs, Spurs, Bulls and Celtics able to get superstar players to sign with them and are never in cap hell, yet we are year in and year out? WTF? I really thought all this bull**** would go away once Abe died, but his spirit lives throught Leonsis and Ernie.

I know you're a beaten down Wizards fan, but you've got to temper your expectations. This team is not going to win 50 games next year or the year after. But if we go from winning 23 & 20 games in the Wall era to 35, isn't that somewhat encouraging considering we are in a rebuild? As long as we're trending upwards, we'll be fine in the long run.

Lakers & Heat are the only teams (that you mentioned) that have had "superstars" sign with them. Everyone else is brought in via the draft or through trades.

Edited June 21, 2012 by RonArtest15

[pjfootballer]

Title contender in 2014? HIGHLY doubt it. I just want this team to keep trending upwards. Ultimate goal is to be a title contender in due time. Let's make the playoffs first LOL. Like I said, I think that's a realistic goal with this current crop of guys.

That's a broken record I've heard many times over the last 34 years. Wish I had more optimism, but out of all the teams I root for in the 4 major sports (Skins, Wiz, Caps, O's) I have the least amount of hope to win a title from the Wiz before I die then any of the others.

Earnie is saying in the newspaper today that the guy they take won't need to give them serious minutes immediately. That they are going to bring him along slow... Which I took to mean Drummond was the pick... Although the rest of the article was more about Beal and they didn't even mention Drummond. I think if they take a guard or small forward you would expect to get more minutes out of him year 1. Big men are more projects..

Course the Wiz have had a lot of projects and none have really come threw.

Hell, I heard Barnes this morning on talk radio out of Charlotte.

---------- Post added June-21st-2012 at 04:42 PM ----------

[

I know you're a beaten down Wizards fan, but you've got to temper your expectations.

Pulverized is the word I'd probably use.

[endzone_dave]

This team needs a superstar in the worst way. There's no way we'll get a FA superstar so we need to draft one. Ernie only drafts awful tall white guys or point guards who can't learn how to shoot a 15 foot jumper. Maybe Ernie will get lucky, just once.

[Warhead36]

This team needs a superstar in the worst way. There's no way we'll get a FA superstar so we need to draft one. Ernie only drafts awful tall white guys or point guards who can't learn how to shoot a 15 foot jumper. Maybe Ernie will get lucky, just once.

Based on where we took them, I think Young, McGee, and even Blatche were decent picks(Blatche was a 2nd rounder and 99% of them can't stick to an NBA roster after about three years).

[DallasBlowsBig]

Guys on Bradley Beal, what is your impression about him, can he be a star? Can he be an All Star in this league?

[Destino]

Guys on Bradley Beal, what is your impression about him, can he be a star? Can he be an All Star in this league?

I think he's the next OJ Mayo.

[Going Commando]

I think he's the next OJ Mayo.

I see it a bit. OJ was a pretty electric athlete coming out though. So explosive and so graceful. Beal is more old school, more cerebral, and much more physical.

I think Beal is a throwback. He's got a little Iverson in his game because that's who he grew up idolizing.

No top guard recruit comes up through the ranks without some Iverson to him.

But it's understated. Beal strikes me as a football player playing basketball if that makes sense. He brings the kind of relentless repetitive discipline and physicality to the basketball court of a good football player. Feels like a lot of great basketball players are more freewheeling and improvisational and they can fall in love with their own talent. But Beal will absolutely set up for and release his shot the exact same way 1,000 times, he'll run through every screen on defense the same way the entire night, pick every shot with care with that mechanical discipline that gets drilled into football players.

I love his approach to the game. He is really, really smart. I see very little chance he doesn't become a very good NBA player. Classic high motor overachiever and cerebral player. Makes up for the lack of "wow" in his game IMO.

Wall gives us plenty of that.

[RonArtest15]

I think he's the next OJ Mayo.

Outside of shooting mechanics, I'm not seeing it. At all.

One of Beal's greatest assets is his aggressiveness. Mayo NEVER attacked the rim like Beal does. With that aggressiveness comes the lauded rebounding. He SHOULD be a much better pro than Mayo. Let's hope he turns out to be similar to both Ray Allen and D.Wade (like he's been compared to).

[Samuels]

Ernie just said they won't count on the draft pick this season, he will only be 19 maybe 20. If you read into that Beal turns 19 on draft night. Barnes just turned 20 like 2 weeks ago. TRob is 21 and MKG and Drummond both are 18 until the fall.

I was told this morning they are split on Barnes and Beal. They like Harrison better but Beal fills a huge hole its gonna come down to need vs BPA on there board. And despite Teddy saying they will keep the pick I was told they've talked to the kings,blazers and warriors about trading back.

[SuperBash]

Ernie just said they won't count on the draft pick this season, he will only be 19 maybe 20. If you read into that Beal turns 19 on draft night. Barnes just turned 20 like 2 weeks ago. TRob is 21 and MKG and Drummond both are 18 until the fall.

I was told this morning they are split on Barnes and Beal. They like Harrison better but Beal fills a huge hole its gonna come down to need vs BPA on there board. And despite Teddy saying they will keep the pick I was told they've talked to the kings,blazers and warriors about trading back.

They must think Barnes or Ariza can play the 2 a little bit. You see the Pacers do it with George and Granger.

[Destino]

Outside of shooting mechanics, I'm not seeing it. At all.

One of Beal's greatest assets is his aggressiveness. Mayo NEVER attacked the rim like Beal does. With that aggressiveness comes the lauded rebounding. He SHOULD be a much better pro than Mayo. Let's hope he turns out to be similar to both Ray Allen and D.Wade (like he's been compared to).

I am not impressed with Beals handles and ability to attack the basket. He's big but he's not fast, looks out of control, and doesn't have great balance. Wade is an absolute master at getting to the rim and I NOT a great shooter by any stretch of the imagination. The wade comparion is lunacy.

Ray Allen is an absolute master without the ball with perfect shooting form but most importantly, his shots fall at a fight rate. Neal doesn't have the numbers to justify the comparison. looking great firing shots that don't go in, doesn't make one the next ray Allen.

The biggest difference between Mayo and Beal IMO is that Beal has better form in his pull up jumper. Both in college were best firing off spot jumpers and made up for there inconsistn handles with a quick first step. Of course that depends on who you ask... Lots of scouts think Neal has great handles and thought Mayo's were good enough to see him get time at PG in the nba.

[Samuels]

They must think Barnes or Ariza can play the 2 a little bit. You see the Pacers do it with George and Granger.

Ariza played the 2 alot last year for the hornets. He can defend both spots.

[SuperBash]

A need that isn't as glaring, in terms of discussion about it, but would help this team tremendously imo is a vet PG with a good jumper. I think adding one can help this team, a lot.

[Samuels]

A need that isn't as glaring, in terms of discussion about it, but would help this team tremendously imo is a vet PG with a good jumper. I think adding one can help this team, a lot.

I wanted Machado bad with #46 but its gone now. Hoping for John Jenkins or Doron Lamb to fall into our lap at #32.

Barnes according to reports had a great workout today for the bobcats. Reporters said he made over 80% of his jumpers and dunked the ball like 20 times in a minute or something crazy like that in drill work. There coach was talking him up afterwards.

[Going Commando]

A need that isn't as glaring, in terms of discussion about it, but would help this team tremendously imo is a vet PG with a good jumper. I think adding one can help this team, a lot.

I'd like us to show some interest in Patrick Mills from the Spurs. Didn't play a whole lot last season but shot really well when he did and is a cerebral guard. I'd like to poach him and expand his role here. He could probably be signed for a near minimum contract. Not a whole lot to lose and he could become an important part of our rotation.

---------- Post added June-21st-2012 at 09:23 PM ----------

Beal will never be as explosive as Flash. Wade probably had the best short area quicks in the league in his prime. Nor will Beal ever be as good at attacking the rim.

Dwyane Wade is the most skillful slasher in the league. Nobody is as good as him. Ask any basketball person who they think the best is, and they'll say Wade. CP3, Manu, LeBron, they'd all tell you Wade.

So Beal will never be the slasher Wade is. Rare to find anyone who would. That comparison is more for their size and their strength level--very similar physically to Wade when Wade was in college.

I disagree with Destino on one point about Beal's attacking. I think Beal shows decent floor vision to find his open teammates when he attacks. That's the source of most of his assists. Compared to the other prospects, he's not as good a passer as MKG but he's well ahead of Barnes here IMO. Barnes doesn't have a good comfort level after two dribbles. His mentality is score score score and he gets tunnel vision.

I also disagree about Wade's shooting ability Destino. Wade was a very poor jump shooter when he came into the league. But he made progress as a shooter at some point. Supposedly he did some sort of special work with a shooting coach that significantly changed his mechanics and now he has a very mechanical jump shot and it's working better for him.

He also has always shot for extremely high percentages for a 2 guard despite always taking a fairly high volume of jumpers.

But if I were comparing anyone to DWade in this year's class, I would say MKG and Austin Rivers have the most DWade in them by far. MKG is a graceful and gifted finisher with excellent handles and strength. He can bull to the rim and also use quickness to get there like Wade. He also sees the floor very well while he attacks just like Wade. And just like Wade when he came in, he can't shoot and has mechanical flaws that limit him a bit as a shooter so to be effective on offense he has to be relentlessly aggressive.

Rivers is like Wade in that he's got a terrific first few steps and he's easily the most skillful ball handler and finisher in the class. He breaks you down and gets into the paint like it's breathing for him and then he's got tremendous body control and grace on his finishes. I love how he uses the rim to keep much bigger shotblockers off of him. But Rivers doesn't have anywhere near Wade's floor vision and IQ nor his strength. Wade is a terrific passer and Rivers doesn't really like to pass.