The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[No Excuses]

seems like an anomaly from the recent trends:

Perhaps but I think the Sixers are a good team and Doug Collins is a good coach. If they are the benchmark for the 8th seed, we are not even remotely close.

[the burgundy and gold]

Just got home from the office so really haven't looked into the details but I like this trade on the surface. Two solid professionals added to the locker room will definitely be helpful, not too mention the defensive help.

Edited June 20, 2012 by the burgundy and gold

[SuperBash]

Looking at the EC Playoff teams, who is due for a dropoff?

Orlando probably. Then, Philly? Maybe Boston depending on their offseason? Chicago with Rose out?

Now who could make a jump?

Us, Bucks and maybe the Pistons and the Cavs. Maybe is the key word.

Realistically, I could see two spots open up into the playoffs.

[WALL-LE]

Ahahahahahaha

Guess who just won VIP tickets to the Wizards draft party next Thursday?? Oh yeah. Free food and drinks and chilling with ex players. Won them on 106.7. And by just, I mean 30 seconds ago.

So...who wants to ride with me? Got one extra

i would love to join you...

[Hersh]

This isn't the NFL...young players mean jack **** in the NBA. You can't just stockpile draft picks and expect to get good. No, you pray that you find a stud in the first round and you build around them. We are trying to build around John Wall. The Thunder are the RARE exception and the Bobcats and Kings are the norm.

---------- Post added June-20th-2012 at 05:56 PM ----------

but we had 0 credible shooters this past year...

I'm not arguing against adding veterans, I'm arguing against this specific trade. Ariza shot 41% last year and is a career 43% shooter (31% from 3-point range) which doesn't help this team score and Okafor, while perhaps a good defensive addition, doesn't exactly light up to score board offensively. Maybe we are better defensively, but this team needs more scoring. Also, I wanted to see Seraphin keep getting big minutes and develop. (maybe he still will)

On the plus side, I'm someone that argued at the beginning of last year that this team had no shooters so I hope this means we will be drafting Beal. I've been on that bandwagon since we got the 3rd pick.

---------- Post added June-20th-2012 at 11:00 PM ----------

Ahahahahahaha

Guess who just won VIP tickets to the Wizards draft party next Thursday?? Oh yeah. Free food and drinks and chilling with ex players. Won them on 106.7. And by just, I mean 30 seconds ago.

So...who wants to ride with me? Got one extra

That's really cool so we expect good pictures.

---------- Post added June-20th-2012 at 11:02 PM ----------

My question is what of any substance could we have gotten in their place? No one wants to play here...so to me FA isn't relevant. This team is a bigger joke than the Haynesworth era Redskins... Maybe I am being overly pessimistic but that's just how I feel.

When was the last time this team had cap space to aggressively pursue players? Plus, if we have excess cap rooms, deals like these could be made with teams looking to shed salary.

[RonArtest15]

How are we not still building through the draft? How are we still not developing young players? We gave up Rashard ****ing Lewis. We gave up the 46th pick--a pick that would be a longshot to make any team with ANY GM. And we got a 26/27 year old and a decent big (you know, those rare things in this world, decent NBA bigs) who is still under 30

Another thing to consider...

Shard = not contributing this year

#46 pick = crapshoot

Ariza/Okafor = WILL contribute this season in one way or another. Also, BOTH deals are expiring after next year making the two guys attractive trade pieces before the 2014 season.

*People are harping on Ariza's offense...dude is a VERY good defender. That's being lost in this conversation.

[StillUnknown]

http://www.tedstake.com/2012/06/20/wizards-make-a-clever-trade/

Ted's Take

[Chachie]

How are we not still building through the draft? How are we still not developing young players? We gave up Rashard ****ing Lewis. We gave up the 46th pick--a pick that would be a longshot to make any team with ANY GM. And we got a 26/27 year old and a decent big (you know, those rare things in this world, decent NBA bigs) who is still under 30

This says it all for me. We're not winning the division next season no matter what we do and both of these guys only have one more year on their papers. I smiled at dumping Rashard and we still pick 3rd. MKG or Beal in the house. Chachie likey no probby.

[Samuels]

Another thing to consider...

Shard = not contributing this year

#46 pick = crapshoot

Ariza/Okafor = WILL contribute this season in one way or another. Also, BOTH deals are expiring after next year making the two guys attractive trade pieces before the 2014 season.

*People are harping on Ariza's offense...dude is a VERY good defender. That's being lost in this conversation.

There both very good defenders. Okafor and Nene is a formidable frontcourt if both are healthy. The problem is it makes us a late lottery type of team without capspace or a high draft pick. Its the exact opposite of the supposed plan.

Looking at the roster its very unbalanced

C- Nene- Seraphin

PF- Okafor- Booker- Vesely

SF- Ariza-Singleton-Vesely

OG- Crawford

PG-Wall- Mack

Thats 10 under contract. This move is gonna hurt the development of our young front court players.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

i would love to join you...

I think I'm gonna take my dad. Haven't seen him in awhile and he's been a Bullets/Wizards fan his whole life too (got me into them as far back as I can literally remember). Plus he agrees with me that it was a good trade today, which is/was a prerequisite for anyone wanting to go. If it falls through with him, always a possibility, I'll get back at you. Sorry man.

Edited June 21, 2012 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Ernie's gonna Ernie, why he didnt ask for the #10 pick we will never know.

At this point, I just hope Wall takes the next step. If not, then we are going to be a mediocre team. Not good enough for the playoffs but not bad enough to be a high end lottery pick.

[WALL-LE]

I think I'm gonna take my dad. Haven't seen him in awhile and he's been a Bullets/Wizards fan his whole life too (got me into them as far back as I can literally remember). Plus he agrees with me that it was a good trade today, which is/was a prerequisite for anyone wanting to go. If it falls through with him, always a possibility, I'll get back at you. Sorry man.

haha no problem just thought id throw it out there

[No Excuses]

http://www.tedstake.com/2012/06/20/wizards-make-a-clever-trade/

Ted's Take

Typical Ted fluff.

John Hollinger's take on this

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story?page=wizhornetsdeal-120620&_slug_=new-orleans-hornets-get-better-end-deal-washington-wizards&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fplayoffs%2f2012%2fstory%3fpage%3dwizhornetsdeal-120620%26_slug_%3dnew-orleans-hornets-get-better-end-deal-washington-wizards

The good news for Washington Wizards fans is that general manager Ernie Grunfeld is building a winner. The bad news is that he's doing it in Minnesota and New Orleans.

Seriously, can anyone explain why this guy is still running a basketball team? Grunfeld engineered yet another numbingly brutal trade today when he sent Rashard Lewis and a second-round pick to the New Orleans Hornets for Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I remember when EVERYONE here thought Hollinger was a hack. Guess that was before he agreed with them though.

[nuposse87]

This isn't as bad as the Miller+foye trade. Mostly because we still can move these pieces. I think people are getting the depth chart wrong as the way things currently stand.

Wall/Mack

JC/3#(assuming it is beal)

C. Singleton/Ariza

Nene/Booker/Vesly (PF is his preferred position[Nene])

Seraphin/Okafor (Absolutely no way Okafor deserves to start over him)

I'd look to flip Booker and Ariza for the best back up PG we can get. Wall is going to have off nights, we need solid floor general alongside of him. You either do that or trade Okafor for Ben Gordon and try to convert JC into a PG as he has demonstated play-making abilities. Still...If Cha drafts Beal, we're ****ED.

[Burgold]

So, does this mean TRob or MKG is off the table? Not knowing much I was kind of hoping for TRobinson.

[SuperBash]

Ted just said, "We still have the draft coming up – and I bet we have some more moves to make before next season." He also said earlier that we were going to welcome 2 draft picks to the team, when we had 3, and players were going to get traded. Don't think we aren't done dealing. Seems like Ted is showing his hand a little bit to me.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Ernie's gonna Ernie, why he didnt ask for the #10 pick we will never know.

At this point, I just hope Wall takes the next step. If not, then we are going to be a mediocre team. Not good enough for the playoffs but not bad enough to be a high end lottery pick.

You know he didn't ask for the #10 how? Well I guess if he asked for it, they definitely would have thrown it in. Kinda like how we can force players to sign with us and use up that amazing cap space Lewis was going to give us.

You know whats funny? I understand the negative Nene trade reactions MUCH more than the reactions to this trade today.

[Destino]

GACOLB your position makes sense if huge expiring deals aren't valuable. You claim that they are less valuable now... I think that right now with the luxury tax hammer soon to drop they are valuable. Without one New Orleans can't have cap space right now, and boom now they do, that's value. They DESPERATELY needed the space and instead of holding their asses over a barrel we got hosed.

We tied the teams money up and shed an asset to pick up contracts that were out in the yard under a sign reading "take it if you want it!"

Edited June 21, 2012 by Destino

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

You know he didn't ask for the #10 how? Well I guess if he asked for it, they definitely would have thrown it in. Kinda like how we can force players to sign with us and use up that amazing cap space Lewis was going to give us.

You know whats funny? I understand the negative Nene trade reactions MUCH more than the reactions to this trade today.

poor choice words, we should have gotten that pick out of this.

Look at it from the Hornets stand point, they dump two bad contracts in Okafor and Ariza, and only take on Rashad Lewis' contract which they will buyout for the 13 million. They now have cap space for 2013, two top 10 picks in this draft, and one being the #1 pick. This is a slam dunk trade for the Hornets.

What do the Wizards get? We get experience down low with Okafor who adds more depth to our front court and we get a decent player in Ariza. We also add those big contracts those two signed for the next 2 years. Thats about 20 million. Even after these moves, I am not sure the Wizards are a playoff team.

I been asking fans this question, what is the goal of this trade? The way I see it, we are going to be a team that just misses out on the playoffs. Being an 8th seed or just missing out on the playoffs is the worst place to be for an NBA franchise as its hard to improve from there.

This trade feels like what this franchise has done for over 20 years.

---------- Post added June-20th-2012 at 09:56 PM ----------

So, does this mean TRob or MKG is off the table? Not knowing much I was kind of hoping for TRobinson.

we are drafting Beal.

Edited June 21, 2012 by AsiaticSkinsFan

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

And your position would make sense if

A) If Okafor and Ariza weren't decent players who improve the team

Weren't also set to become expiring deals just next year--when we have a chance to actually attract decent players to take up the free cap space we'll have

C) We gave up something more than Rashard ****ing Lewis and a pick that is almost a lock to spend more of his career in the D League than on someone's active roster

I can understand not liking the move for whatever reason, but the hyperbole in the negative reactions is just mind boggling. I think that's what's getting to me the most. EDS, Ernie Derangement Syndrome

[Going Commando]

This says it all for me. We're not winning the division next season no matter what we do and both of these guys only have one more year on their papers. I smiled at dumping Rashard and we still pick 3rd. MKG or Beal in the house. Chachie likey no probby.

What is this line of reasoning? "We're not winning the division next year, (so it's OK to make dumb ass trades)."

Ernie is an idiot. This was a terrible trade. He deserves to get blasted--and he is. Look at the national opinion. He's ridiculous.

I love this line from John Hollinger:

The good news for Washington Wizards fans is that general manager Ernie Grunfeld is building a winner. The bad news is that he's doing it in Minnesota and New Orleans.

Seriously, can anyone explain why this guy is still running a basketball team?

Grunfeld engineered yet another numbingly brutal trade today when he sent Rashard Lewis and a second-round pick to the New Orleans Hornets for Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza.

[No Excuses]

what is the goal of this trade?

There is none. The primary purpose this offseason, which was pretty unanimously agreed by everyone, was that this team was in serious need of offensive upgrades. And we go in and tie up all the cap space and end up in the same situation we were in last year. There is no balance of skills.

Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor can be useful players on the right team. This is not that team.

[Going Commando]

A) If Okafor and Ariza weren't decent players who improve the team

Ariza is hot garbage dude. A 13.1 PER as a 9 year vet is pathetic. A player like that should not make it 9 years in the league. We'd seriously be better off starting Vesely. At least he has a chance to get better.

Okafor is at least decent... when healthy. But he's going to suddenly get healthy here? He's a shell of his former self. And paying a backup center 14 million per year for two years is utterly ludicrous.

Weren't also set to become expiring deals just next year--when we have a chance to actually attract decent players to take up the free cap space we'll have

Why even take on their deals? Why not just let Shard's contract expire next summer and sock away the money saved. You really think we can't go out and lure a few Willie Green or Gerald Green D list free agents by paying them just a bit more than they could get elsewhere? If we're going to overpay, at least overpay for some pieces that ****ing fit.

And I'd rather waste one roster spot for one year on Shard, then two roster spots for two years on two similarly useless players.

C) We gave up something more than Rashard ****ing Lewis and a pick that is almost a lock to spend more of his career in the D League than on someone's active roster

You're missing something here. It's not Rashard Lewis we gave up in this deal. It's Rashard Lewis's 21 million ****ing dollar expiring contract that we gave up. Has there ever been an expiring contract that big coming off the books for a team?

He has the second highest salary in the league. His salary constitutes almost half a team's total cap space! It's the single biggest cap clearing tool in the league--by far! And we gave it away! To take on two terrible deals for an extra year! And we threw in a draft pick to boot! How is the mindboggling absurdity and stupidity of this not computing for some of you?

I can understand not liking the move for whatever reason, but the hyperbole in the negative reactions is just mind boggling. I think that's what's getting to me the most. EDS, Ernie Derangement Syndrome

What's mind boggling to me is how any Wizards fan can feel good about this deal. It's almost as stupid as trading the fifth pick was. The fact that we just gave up something to get two players that New Orleans would have gladly given us for free if they could have doesn't at least give you pause? That right there tells you the deal was stupid. Any kid trading cards on the playground knows you don't give away something the other guy wants without making him actually give up something in return.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

And your position would make sense if

A) If Okafor and Ariza weren't decent players who improve the team

Weren't also set to become expiring deals just next year--when we have a chance to actually attract decent players to take up the free cap space we'll have

C) We gave up something more than Rashard ****ing Lewis and a pick that is almost a lock to spend more of his career in the D League than on someone's active roster

I can understand not liking the move for whatever reason, but the hyperbole in the negative reactions is just mind boggling. I think that's what's getting to me the most. EDS, Ernie Derangement Syndrome

A) I never said they werent decent players. My post said they were decent players. But remember they played on the 3rd worst team in the NBA last season as well.

Okafor is up in 2014. Ariza has a player option for 2014. These contracts have two more years left on it.

C) It would have been cheaper to keep Rashard Lewis as this would be the last year of his deal on our cap (as we buy him out for 13 million). Now we have two more years committed to two guys with big cap numbers.