Berggy9598 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Possession is life Possession is everything We employ it as a strategy with our club team AND high school, and we run them ragged as we play “keep away”. They want to run a track meet so we let them run and kill themselves on our defense and GK. Then we pass...a lot. And in the last 20 minutes when they’re tired of running the game gets taken away from them. The Barçelona Style is an excellent system that requires full teamwork and selfless play, and it is beautiful to watch. At the end of the day, if the other team doesn’t have the ball then they can’t score. If that were true how are all these teams/nations playing at the highest level getting results and winning leagues without playing that style? Sure it's easier on the eye but definitely not the only way to succeed. When Barca won treble under Luis Henrique they deviated from that style quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) Possession is not everything. The very best teams find a balance that works for them. When Bayern beat Barcelona 7-0 on aggregate a few years back, Barcelona had 63% possession. What really matters is whether you can translate possession into shots on goal. And forcing more errors than you commit yourself. And where a possession-focused team can get beaten quite easily is through being forced into errors by aggressive pressing, but only at the right time. Bad teams lose to possession-oriented teams by getting fatigued through pressing in an uncoordinated way, too often, and at the wrong times. Edited June 18, 2018 by Corcaigh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Berggy9598 said: If that were true how are all these teams/nations playing at the highest level getting results and winning leagues without playing that style? Sure it's easier on the eye but definitely not the only way to succeed. When Barca won treble under Luis Henrique they deviated from that style quite a bit. Every strategy of football has a counter strategy or style. Tiki taka style’s counter is the counter attacking strategy. We saw it with Portugal the other day. Those teams choose to wait for their opportunity and then transition fast once they get the ball. Spain was grinding away at Portugal on possession, but once you’re in your attacking 3rd you’re vulnerable to a transition attack, which is what Portugal was doing. At the end of the day though I want to be the team with possession because you have the ball, if you have the ball then you have opportunities, the more opportunities the more goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 So VAR so bad, a questionable PK for France allowed from Moscow, an intentional hand deflection in the box no red card, a goal allowed for Switzerland while the striker intentionally pushes the brazilian defender in the back in order to make the header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Every strategy of football has a counter strategy or style. Tiki taka style’s counter is the counter attacking strategy. We saw it with Portugal the other day. Those teams choose to wait for their opportunity and then transition fast once they get the ball. Spain was grinding away at Portugal on possession, but once you’re in your attacking 3rd you’re vulnerable to a transition attack, which is what Portugal was doing. At the end of the day though I want to be the team with possession because you have the ball, if you have the ball then you have opportunities, the more opportunities the more goals. I understand how football works but ty for taking the time. Edited June 18, 2018 by Berggy9598 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Berggy9598 said: If that were true how are all these teams/nations playing at the highest level getting results and winning leagues without playing that style? Sure it's easier on the eye but definitely not the only way to succeed. When Barca won treble under Luis Henrique they deviated from that style quite a bit. I don't watch much Spanish football but I can't imagine any top-tier club or national team playing that style, makes no sense unless you're undermanned. Are you talking style or formation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 sitting at work watching Sweden Korea. ref swallowed whistle when 20 for Sweden was taken down inside the box in the 43rd minute. makes you wonder what you have to do to get a penalty in this tournament 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, JSSkinz said: I don't watch much Spanish football but I can't imagine any top-tier club or national team playing that style, makes no sense unless you're undermanned. Are you talking style or formation? Could be a bit of both. You can look at certain formations and see that the team employing them will play ultra defensive football without even looking to counter attack all that often. It also depends a lot on what kind of midfielders are deployed and what role they are asked to play. Plenty of top tier clubs play counter attacking football and they can score plenty of goals doing it. Being top tier clubs they can afford final third players that can create goals out of nothing and generally pose a threat every time they touch the ball. Manchester United in the late 2000s played some of the best attacking football I've ever seen and didn't always dominate possession. Pretty standard practice in general now a days. Edited June 18, 2018 by Berggy9598 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said: Could be a bit of both. You can look at certain formations and see that the team employing them will play ultra defensive football without even looking to counter attack all that often. It also depends a lot on what kind of midfielders are deployed and what role they are asked to play. Plenty of top tier clubs play counter attacking football and they can score plenty of goals doing it. Being top tier clubs they can afford final third players that can create goals out of nothing and generally pose a threat every time they touch the ball. Pretty standard practice now a days. Yes, and it puts a premium on a handful of players who can affect that type of change on the pitch, it also makes them vulnerable to defenses focusing on THOSE players. Tiki taka can take a team without mega stars and have them be very effective. Glad to see the VR step in with that PK review for Sweden. Edited June 18, 2018 by AsburySkinsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Yes, and it puts a premium on a handful of players who can affect that type of change on the pitch, it also makes them vulnerable to defenses focusing on THOSE players. Tiki taka can take a team without mega stars and have them be very effective. Glad to see the VR step in with that PK review for Sweden. Well let's look at who has used that style of play most effectively. Barca under Pep, Spain between 2008 and 2012, and now Manchester City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Good win by Sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Tiki taka can take a team without mega stars and have them be very effective. Please name examples? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 You list Barca as your example...yeah possession style works when you have world class players up and down your lineup incl arguably the best player in the world in Messi. Possession that doesnt translate into quality shots on goal is worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Elessar78 said: Please name examples? He's confusing tiki-taka with general possession oriented football. Tiki-taka is a system onto itself as we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) Even as a player, this World Cup has been really hard to watch other than a handful of games. Teams have been really poor in the attacking third. Also, having just watched the War in Ice for two months makes it extremely hard to watch people get flicked in the ear and do 13 barrel rolls on the ground acting like they are near death when I just watched people get hit with a brick of rubber at 90mph and not miss a shift for two months. Edited June 18, 2018 by Zazzaro703 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Zazzaro703 said: Even as a player, this World Cup has been really hard to watch other than a handful of games. Teams have been really poor in the attacking third. Also, having just watched the War in Ice for two months makes it extremely hard to watch people get flicked in the ear and do 13 barrel rolls on the ground acting like they are near death when I just watched people get hit with a brick of rubber at 90mph and not miss a shift for two months. Every sport has its dark side. Soccer has diving, hockey has actions that would be punishable by jail time anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said: Every sport has its dark side. Soccer has diving, hockey has actions that would be punishable by jail time anywhere else. I've played the game at a high level, I understand the need for diving because set pieces around the goal or getting a man sent off are huge advantages. Still, it makes the game hard to watch and is absurd even moreso having just watching the hockey playoffs for 2 months. Edited June 18, 2018 by Zazzaro703 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ixcuincle said: sitting at work watching Sweden Korea. ref swallowed whistle when 20 for Sweden was taken down inside the box in the 43rd minute. makes you wonder what you have to do to get a penalty in this tournament Edited June 18, 2018 by FrFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 31 minutes ago, Zazzaro703 said: Even as a player, this World Cup has been really hard to watch other than a handful of games. Teams have been really poor in the attacking third. Also, having just watched the War in Ice for two months makes it extremely hard to watch people get flicked in the ear and do 13 barrel rolls on the ground acting like they are near death when I just watched people get hit with a brick of rubber at 90mph and not miss a shift for two months. Agreed. The diving didn't bother me in years past but after watching so much playoff hockey, its pathetic watching these professional athletes collapse to the ground like a truck hit them at the slightest bit of contact. Have some pride man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 45 minutes ago, Elessar78 said: Please name examples? I usually don’t do other people’s homework... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1391050-barcelonas-tiki-taka-4-teams-whove-tried-to-emulate-them 39 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said: He's confusing tiki-taka with general possession oriented football. Tiki-taka is a system onto itself as we know. I’m talking about Barçalona Style/Tiki Taka which are variants of one another. Both are possession focused triangular quick passing pattern systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 43 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: You list Barca as your example...yeah possession style works when you have world class players up and down your lineup incl arguably the best player in the world in Messi. Possession that doesnt translate into quality shots on goal is worthless. The same can be said for counter attacking systems... In many respects it’s like American football, if you have the ball you have the advantage. What you do with that advantage is a different story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: I usually don’t do other people’s homework... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1391050-barcelonas-tiki-taka-4-teams-whove-tried-to-emulate-them I’m talking about Barçalona Style/Tiki Taka which are variants of one another. Both are possession focused triangular quick passing pattern systems. Well then you definitely need mega stars to make that system work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said: Well then you definitely need mega stars to make that system work. Your statement is proof that writing something does not make it true. You can say that some of the teams that have used it have had stars, but that doesn’t prove that mega stars are needed for the system. IMO too few teams have utilized the system outside of Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Hell of a strike by Mertens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Belgium should wax Panama. I sense a 2nd half outburst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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