Students kicked out for wearing American flags on 5/5

[Predicto]

Welp, I've got to get back to work. Have fun with this one, kiddies.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Welp, I've got to get back to work. Have fun with this one, kiddies.

Thanks Dad!

[AsburySkinsFan]

What else does your crystal ball say?

I've got tonight's lotto numbers, want 'em?

Whats the problem with being antagonistic if it is within the rules?

No room for dissent or counter celebration?

Sure there is. But what none of these articles are presenting is whether there was antagonistic behavior or threats from either side. The principle apparently told the students that he wasn't going to have any fights. Ok, is there a history of fights? Were the kids sporting the stars and bars known trouble makers? What are the overall racial tensions within the school? All we hear is one snippet from the School Board and a lot of parental "my kid is perfect" quotes. Both articles IMO are short on the facts of the situation. What's more is that the school has a ban on bandannas anyways.

While bandannas of any color are banned at the school, its dress code policy does not contain references to American flags.

Which is what I've been objecting to all along in this thread.

Should we ban the flag [ ]yes [ ]no [ ]not sure

No unless someone wants to argue for school uniforms, which might not be a bad idea.

With all of that said, the principle should not have sent them home for their t-shirts alone. If he's going to discipline them then he's going to have to wait until they are actually causing a disruption.

[DjTj]

So only CERTAIN people aren't allowed to express themselves? well that makes it better

It makes it better in terms of the First Amendment. It probably makes it worse in terms of the Fourteenth Amendment. He is discriminating against individuals; not discriminating against speech.

Since when is the symbol of a country NOT political? Maybe they're protesting illegal immigration. Maybe they're protesting Cinco de Mayo. Maybe, they're just expressing their love for America. It doesn't matter, they are expressing themselves in a silent manner.

Maybe they're just trying to stir up trouble? You can't build a Constitutional case around "maybe." The Supreme Court isn't going to protect your right to speak if nobody understands what you are saying. The First Amendment is about "speech." If the students can't explain what "speech" they were making, then they are not protected.

[ABQCOWBOY]

So here's an honest question for either side of this debate.

For those who believe the young kids should have been allowed to wear Stars and Bars, do you feel the same way about the young lesbian girl who wanted to wear a tux to the Prom down in Mississippi?

For those who believe those young kids should not have been allowed to wear the Stars and Bars, would you then say that the Mississippi school that denied permission for the young lady to wear a Tux was correct in doing so?

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've got tonight's lotto numbers, want 'em?

Sure, cough em up.

[AsburySkinsFan]

So here's an honest question for either side of this debate.

For those who believe the young kids should have been allowed to wear Stars and Bars, do you feel the same way about the young lesbian girl who wanted to wear a tux to the Prom down in Mississippi?

For those who believe those young kids should not have been allowed to wear the Stars and Bars, would you then say that the Mississippi school that denied permission for the young lady to wear a Tux was correct in doing so?

What about those of us who say that they should have been allowed to wear the stars and bars while at the same time making sure that they weren't being antagonistic to other students with their attire?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Sure, cough em up.

Heck you want me to put them out in the forum, we'd end up with about a dollar each.

[twa]

I like the school uniforms,as it cuts down on bs like this and helps focus on learning.

Though they should have a required American flag patch on the sleeve as a requirement :evilg:

[Special K]

Ugh. I understand the kids want to make a statement, but by doing stuff like this on a day that many Mexican-Americans celebrate (as well as myself ), really doesn't do a whole lot to help the tensions of this whole immigration situation. It really doesn't do a whole lot to get us closer to a solution to this massive cluster****, which is really what people should be seeking here. This shouldn't be a pissing contest full of emotions.

The principal probably overreacted here, but he's kinda stuck in a rough place if, in fact, these kids are inciting tensions. The primary job of a principal is to ensure the safety of kids while they obtain an education. This has become such an exceedingly emotional issue, tensions could have easily spilled over into something serious and people could have gotten hurt. So I can kind of see where the principal is coming from, although I readily admit he may have overreacted.

Now, the bottom line to all of this is that our country is totally screwed and tattooed in terms of this whole immigration debate. No one wants to sit down and discuss reasonable solutions like frickin adults (politicians and the public alike); instead, everyone seems to want to simply pit one ethnicity against another and scream their heads off. It's completely absurd and I'm fed up with the bullcrap from both sides on this issue.

[buenosdiaz]

so your argument is A school can do it, but a school district can't?

no, thats not my argument theres no prescriptive ban in this situation

learn how to read the law

[AsburySkinsFan]

Ugh. I understand the kids want to make a statement, but by doing stuff like this on a day that many Mexican-Americans celebrate (as well as myself ), really doesn't do a whole lot to help the tensions of this whole immigration situation. It really doesn't do a whole lot to get us closer to a solution to this massive cluster****, which is really what people should be seeking here. This shouldn't be a pissing contest full of emotions.

The principal probably overreacted here, but he's kinda stuck in a rough place if, in fact, these kids are inciting tensions. The primary job of a principal is to ensure the safety of kids while they obtain an education. This has become such an exceedingly emotional issue, tensions could have easily spilled over into something serious and people could have gotten hurt. So I can kind of see where the principal is coming from, although I readily admit he may have overreacted.

Now, the bottom line to all of this is that our country is totally screwed and tattooed in terms of this whole immigration debate. No one wants to sit down and discuss reasonable solutions like frickin adults (politicians and the public alike); instead, everyone seems to want to simply pit one ethnicity against another and scream their heads off. It's completely absurd and I'm fed up with the bullcrap from both sides on this issue.

AMEN!!!!! I couldn't have said it any better Katie!

[PokerPacker]

So here's an honest question for either side of this debate.

For those who believe the young kids should have been allowed to wear Stars and Bars, do you feel the same way about the young lesbian girl who wanted to wear a tux to the Prom down in Mississippi?

For those who believe those young kids should not have been allowed to wear the Stars and Bars, would you then say that the Mississippi school that denied permission for the young lady to wear a Tux was correct in doing so?

that's "stripes". Stars and Bars is the confederate flag. Our flag is Stars and Stripes. And I support both the right to display the flag and for the lesbian girl to wear a tuxedo.

[buenosdiaz]

like i dont get why you have practicing attorneys and a law student telling you you are misapplying the law but for some reason you still think you're right lol

[PokerPacker]

Maybe they're just trying to stir up trouble? You can't build a Constitutional case around "maybe." The Supreme Court isn't going to protect your right to speak if nobody understands what you are saying. The First Amendment is about "speech." If the students can't explain what "speech" they were making, then they are not protected.

So either they just happened to wear the flag that day, or they were wearing it for a reason. The school's problem was that they wore it for a reason. Your problem is that they didn't wear it for a reason?

[ABQCOWBOY]

What about those of us who say that they should have been allowed to wear the stars and bars while at the same time making sure that they weren't being antagonistic to other students with their attire?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I would guess that you are in the camp of Mississippi was wrong and so was this latest administrator.

Perfectly acceptable answer.

[PokerPacker]

like i dont get why you have practicing attorneys and a law student telling you you are misapplying the law but for some reason you still think you're right lol

I have you, someone with a Mexican (well, Spanish) greeting as his screen name, telling me I'm wrong in a case involving Cinco De Mayo. You have to understand from my point of view that I have no choice but to consider the bias that could pose. But you have yet to actually CITE law. You've made arguments of why things should be, or why my court case supposedly does not apply, but you have yet to show me any specific laws to support your side.

[Jumbo]

Whats the problem with being antagonistic if it is within the rules?

No room for dissent or counter celebration?

...as long as we're spitballing (the "P" should probably be an "h") perhaps with all the shooting/school violence that's part of our national story these days, to err on the side of caution...

...15 pages just like that...and now that the FoxNewsReality version lives and will be joined by the inevitable MSNBC drool to add their petri dish effect to the spread of diseased culture....

anyhoo, Des summed it up in one of the fine posts in the thread--"so much stupid"...from more than one side, per normal....

...the widespread success of all the zombie pop-media forms and "zombie nation" as a concept is a workable metaphor for all the brain-eating stupid that is spread across the land ignoring all other differing demographics and seeking the only needed qualifier: human form...undying...very hard to kill...right/left/otherwise...but....time marches on and one day a cure will be found...or an extermination...:pfft:

of course, all that negative view on my part ignores all the bright spots in the land and is reflecting my Grumpus Giganticus anthropological roots.

<and thank you for your post, Katie>

[CallMeGreen]

I like the school uniforms...

Though they should have a required American flag patch on the sleeve as a requirement :evilg:

Hard to argue against this. If police and firefighters can wear the flag patch on their uniforms, there should be no problems with kids wearing them too.

[ABQCOWBOY]

that's "stripes". Stars and Bars is the confederate flag. Our flag is Stars and Stripes. And I support both the right to display the flag and for the lesbian girl to wear a tuxedo.

Your absolutely correct. Point taken.

[PokerPacker]

Hard to argue against this. If police and firefighters can wear the flag patch on their uniforms, there should be no problems with kids wearing them too.

easy to argue. I would not want to force the American flag on the kids just like I wouldn't want to force the Pledge of Allegiance on them, either.

[DjTj]

So either they just happened to wear the flag that day, or they were wearing it for a reason. The school's problem was that they wore it for a reason. Your problem is that they didn't wear it for a reason?

They have to do it for a protected reason.

Disagreement with immigration reform would be a protected reason. Trying to annoy their classmates and administrators would not be a protected reason.

[buenosdiaz]

I have you, someone with a Mexican (well, Spanish) greeting as his screen name, telling me I'm wrong in a case involving Cinco De Mayo. You have to understand from my point of view that I have no choice but to consider the bias that could pose. But you have yet to actually CITE law. You've made arguments of why things should be, or why my court case supposedly does not apply, but you have yet to show me any specific laws to support your side.

lol yes i'm incapable of separating my bias from an analysis of a case you cited...

im not gonna run a westlaw search or go home to get my con law book to find cases for you...i have done what i needed to do show that the case you cited has no authority over what happened here

I dont even know where to begin to start when somebody says something like you have a "mexican greeting"

[Burgold]

I'm against exclusion. If you want include something that's great! Celebrating your heritage is a good and worthy idea. Denying me the ability to celebrate mine isn't.

Banning the American flag is a bad idea. Giving students of Mexican Heritage a day to feel good about their history is a good idea. It's not that hard.

[PokerPacker]

They have to do it for a protected reason.

Disagreement with immigration reform would be a protected reason. Trying to annoy their classmates and administrators would not be a protected reason.

I'll concede that point to you, as I'm not exactly familiar with "protected speech", though if I were to have it my way, you shouldn't have to be protesting to have your speech protected.