Students kicked out for wearing American flags on 5/5

[twa]

...as long as we're spitballing (the "P" should probably be an "h") perhaps with all the shooting/school violence that's part of our national story these days, to err on the side of caution...

You believe the principals actions have somehow calmed things?...Seriously?

From my experience it just adds fuel to the fire in a less controlled environment than the school.

[DjTj]

I'll concede that point to you, as I'm not exactly familiar with "protected speech", though if I were to have it my way, you shouldn't have to be protesting to have your speech protected.

You don't really mean that, if you think about it.

If their shirts said "Support Proposition 187" then clearly that would be protected by the First Amendment.

If their shirts said "**** Maria, she's a dirty Mexican ****" then that would clearly not be protected by the First Amendment.

Their American flag shirts lie somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.

[PokerPacker]

You believe the principals actions have somehow calmed things?...Seriously?

From my experience it just adds fuel to the fire in a less controlled environment than the school.

I remember in my sophomore year when my principal pulled the school newspaper because of something "controversial". End result? A bunch of us made hundreds of photocopies and distributed the material to tons of students who never would've thought about reading the school newspaper.

[PokerPacker]

You don't really mean that, if you think about it.

If their shirts said "Support Proposition 187" then clearly that would be protected by the First Amendment.

If their shirts said "**** Maria, she's a dirty Mexican ****" then that would clearly not be protected by the First Amendment.

Their American flag shirts lie somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.

I didn't say they should be able to wear ANYTHING, I just don't think it should have to be protest to be protected. especially if there are no words or even depictions of anything illegal. American flag is just a symbol. No depiction of sex or murder or even drugs. Just... a flag.

[Jumbo]

You believe the principals actions have somehow calmed things?...Seriously?

From my experience it just adds fuel to the fire in a less controlled environment than the school.

No, it wasn't thuper-therious at all as I thought clear...thought I said "spitballing" and lampooned much of the whole tone here...it was very half-hearted...I know it's risky to get in the way of group (or individual) posturing with my nonsense ...your contention is just fine ...carry on...

[Destino]

I agree with this entire post.

Unfortunately, it lacks sufficient outrage. 2.5 stars.

I agree. You're also leaving something out.... this situation is a great one for opponents of non-European immigration. I mean just look at these Mexicans taking over! We are being invaded!

[twa]

No, it wasn't thuper-therious at all as I thought clear...

You make it difficult to build up to a good rant then....curses,foiled again

[jkypoo]

A couple of things:

Galli says he and his friends were sitting at a table during brunch break

Brunch break? Seriously? What the hell kind of school is this?

We don't deserve to be get disrespected like that.

What?

[No_Pressure]

Its obvious that students were making a point. What that point was I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps they wanted to show they loved America on a day where many students would be showing their love for another nation. Its possible they were making a statement about immigration by showing that being an American means becoming Americanized and not celebrating a national holiday from a country you don't belong to. Maybe they were trying to disparage Mexico in general, wearing American symbols to show the insignificance of Cinco De Mayo in their minds.

Either way, this falls under the scope of the administration in a school setting. Any clothing which an administration finds could be inflammatory or provocative can be disallowed on school grounds at any time. The administration at the school clearly believed that by making what could be perceived as a number of statements (as explained above) with their clothing, the students in question were likely disrupting other students or provoking disturbances, even violence.

Now whether or not that is actually the case is debatable. I would naturally go on the assumption that the school administration knows what they are doing and wouldn't merely disallow patriotic clothing if it wasn't causing a disruption to the normal functioning of the school in general. It is important however to understand that it is a possibility that the administration is simply doing this to spite the kids wearing the clothing, or has other motivations for their actions. We can't say that for sure though.

[CallMeGreen]

easy to argue. I would not want to force the American flag on the kids just like I wouldn't want to force the Pledge of Allegiance on them, either.

School boards force plenty of other things on our kids that are far more objectionable that an adding an American flag patch to a school uniform. Some would say having a uniform policy is a big enough infringement as it is.

I don't see it as being much different than making them read "Grapes of Wrath", performing 'X' hours of community service before graduation or raising your hand to ask a question in class. One more policy, especially such a patriotic one, certainly isn't going to upset the free world as we know it.

Maybe if more kids and parents had spent a bit more time with the Pledge of Allegiance to begin with, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Jumbo]

You make it difficult to build up to a good rant then....curses,foiled again

I am the No Fun Zone embodied.

Or as P would say, "enbiggened."

[PokerPacker]

School boards force plenty of other things on our kids that are far more objectionable that an adding an American flag patch to a school uniform. Some would say having a uniform policy is a big enough infringement as it is.

Forcing the expression is even worse than restricting freedom of expression. I am 100% against it.

I don't see it as being much different than making them read "Grapes of Wrath", performing 'X' hours of community service before graduation or raising your hand to ask a question in class. One more policy, especially such a patriotic one, certainly isn't going to upset the free world as we know it.

I never read "Grapes of Wrath", so I can't speak to the contents of it, but as a part of literature, there is a benefit in having students read. As for forcing community service, I am against that, as I see it as a form of slavery. I was not thrilled with the mandatory community service that was thrust upon me. As for patriotism, it is every person's right to be unpatriotic if they so choose.

Maybe if more kids and parents had spent a bit more time with the Pledge of Allegiance to begin with, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I do not pledge allegiance to the whatever this country is. My allegiance is with that of freedom and liberty. If America become a country that no longer supports such ideas, then why would I keep my allegiance to the country rather than the ideas that it was founded on?

[Corcaigh]

The Supreme Court rules (some NSFW)

[Seabee1973]

Mi amigos and amigas from now own we our united de states of mexico

[CallMeGreen]

I do not pledge allegiance to the whatever this country is. My allegiance is with that of freedom and liberty. If America become a country that no longer supports such ideas, then why would I keep my allegiance to the country rather than the ideas that it was founded on?

We do have some common ground within the points we argue. I understand your perspective on some of your recent points.

My main emphasis on the one poster's original :evilg:'ish comment about flag patches on uniforms was that I didn't think it was the worst idea I've ever heard.

[buenosdiaz]

Mi amigos and amigas from now own we our united de states of mexico

how do blatant racist comments like this not get scrutinized

like seriously? seriously? we all talk like that?

[Destino]

Mi amigos and amigas from now own we our united de states of mexico

shocking take on this... i swear I didn't see it coming.

[kiingspadee]

So here's an honest question for either side of this debate.

For those who believe the young kids should have been allowed to wear Stars and Bars, do you feel the same way about the young lesbian girl who wanted to wear a tux to the Prom down in Mississippi?

For those who believe those young kids should not have been allowed to wear the Stars and Bars, would you then say that the Mississippi school that denied permission for the young lady to wear a Tux was correct in doing so?

Yep, she should have been allowed to - I see nothing wrong with it

[PokerPacker]

We do have some common ground within the points we argue. I understand your perspective on some of your recent points.

I'm not as crazy as my posts would lead you to believe, honest :halo:

My main emphasis on the one poster's original :evilg:'ish comment about flag patches on uniforms was that I didn't think it was the worst idea I've ever heard.

Yeah, I know, I just don't like the idea of forcing expression. I mean, I don't like uniforms in general, but I can see the reasoning for them. But putting symbols on the uniforms is something I can't agree with, regardless as to what that symbol means (other than maybe the school represented).

[twa]

I'm not as crazy as my posts would lead you to believe, honest :halo:

Yeah, I know, I just don't like the idea of forcing expression. I mean, I don't like uniforms in general, but I can see the reasoning for them. But putting symbols on the uniforms is something I can't agree with, regardless as to what that symbol means (other than maybe the school represented).

I guess branding is out of the question then as well ?

We could tag the little suckers like game

[PokerPacker]

I guess branding is out of the question then as well ?

We could tag the little suckers like game

maybe you can brand them by their schedule. That way if a stray student is found wondering the halls, the administrator that catches them can easily return them.

[mcsluggo]

Wearing an American flag, especially when two of them are part Mexican, is a positive form of expression if anything.

The Principal should be fired.

context/manner/demeaner is nothing.... ?

I suppose a kiss is a deepfelt sign of love and affection, whether it is up at the alter as you slip a ring on someone's finger/ or on the deck of a rumrunner as you adjust the cement slippers

[mistertim]

Mi amigos and amigas from now own we our united de states of mexico

*facepalm*

Seriously? That is honestly what you felt the need to add to this discussion? Wow.

[triz]

Mi amigos and amigas from now own we our united de states of mexico

interesting

[mcsluggo]

You believe the principals actions have somehow calmed things?...Seriously?

From my experience it just adds fuel to the fire in a less controlled environment than the school.

agreed.

that said... the purely predictable, and purely asinine rantings that have taken place in this thread are downright knuckle-dragging moronic.

my opinion is that the principle made a small mistake, in an effort to diffuse an effort to raise tensions (an apparently overt effort, from the little that we know about the situation... but that may turn out to be false, who knows?). On the other hand, people on this board sputtereing and spitting vitrol and flames about it are cartoon clowns, in my honest opinion.