Students kicked out for wearing American flags on 5/5

[MEANDWARF]

Glenn Beck when did you get an account at ES?

BTW, wearing a flag doesn't make you a patriot, if that's the case then you guys on the Right have really lowered the bar.

I am not insulted by the lowering of the bar comment Ms Pelosi considering you people on the left has used the Constitution as tiolet paper!:laugh:

[mbws]

Lame.

Someone should tell them that this isn't a national Mexican holiday.

That's right. It's just a reason to switch to Corona for a day.

[GoSkins561]

Question for those of you that think the kids wearing the flag were in the wrong.

Would your opinion change if the kids that were complaining were illegals?

[Burgold]

Yes and that group of boys all sitting around the same table just spontaneously decided to wear as much stars and stripes clothing as they could on a day they know is important to many Mexicans.

I remember sitting in a restaurant one fine December day during Channukah. It was two weeks before Christmas. The place decided to create a cozy atmosphere and so they played music.... Nonstop Christmas music. Now, I admit that a lot of Christmas music is cheery and beautiful, but it wasn't Christmas dagnabbit and there was nary a Chanukah tune played for an hour and a half. So, at one point I decided to loudly sing a Chanukah song. I belted it out full of gusto and love.

The result, the customers applauded and I was asked to for an encore by several. Now, was I instigating... maybe, was I looking for a fight? Not at all. I certainly did want to make a statement that I had love of my own traditions. The Christians in the restaurant didn't take offense (at least none told me they did or acted in that way). On the contrary, several bought me drinks. They got it.

There's nothing wrong with celebrating who you are. Even if those kids wore those American flag t-shirts because they knew the school was going to have a Cinco de Maya day... there's nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, I have love and pride for my culture too!" In fact, we should be glad of it.

When I see a car going through town after the World Cup with a non American flag and its driver smiling and beeping at everybody I'll smile back. His pride, his happiness doesn't diminish me or insult me. If I scream "Go USA! at a Hockey game in Canada that doesn't mean **** Canada!

If the kids wearing the shirts and bandanas were saying racist or ethnocentric garbage that would change the story. If they pushed or drew pictures or anything else, then of course, they should be reprimanded or punished, but wearing a shirt... even if the message is "Yay us!" or even if it's "This is my country!" is fine... And if it ruffles a feather? Then, they are not proud of their own heritage to begin with.

It is the exclusion that is wrong. From what we read, the children did nothing wrong... even if they did it to make a point.

[AsburySkinsFan]

So, at one point I decided to loudly sing a Chanukah song. I belted it out full of gusto and love.

There are Chanukah songs?

but wearing a shirt... even if the message is "Yay us!" or even if it's "This is my country!" is fine... And if it ruffles a feather? Then, they are not proud of their own heritage to begin with.

I agree, but wouldn't you also agree that there is a lot of information that we simply aren't privy to, it seems that none of the reporters asked about motivation. There is no comment from the principle about why he thought there might be a fight. As I've repeatedly stated throughout this thread, it seems to me that the principle overreacted, but to instantly canonize the boys as saints and patriots because they are wearing the stars and stripes seems awfully premature. These kids could be the class punks, or the elitist jackholes, and they could be average kids who just wanted to do a bit of their own national pride, but it seems that some folks for whatever reason cannot fathom that these kids would be anything other than patriots while most here are seeing the various potentials and aren't so quick to villianize the principle and make heroes out of the boys eating their brunch.

From what we read,

And this is the problem, we already know we don't have the full story. Just a bunch of angry mothers who cannot fathom how little Johnny would do anything to provoke someone else.

BTW...brunch what the heck is that all about?

[AsburySkinsFan]

I am not insulted by the lowering of the bar comment Ms Pelosi considering you people on the left has used the contitution as tiolet paper!:laugh:

:yawnee: You want to see the Constitution as toilet paper? Read the Patriot Act. But then we're off topic now.

[Burgold]

The question is how far are you willing to drive down the road to find evil, Asbury. From the story, there was no screaming, fighting, pushing, shoving, or even name calling. From the follow up, the school board sided with the parents against the school.

I do think that the kids were trying to make a statement. I do think their dress was a conscious choice on that day. They may even be guilty of a minor bit of jerkdom... but in totality, all they did is say... I love this country... and that's not inciting a riot. That's not evil. It may even be kinda cool.

And I'll say again. Celebrate everything. Celebrate MLK day and Columbus day and Washington's Birthday, the Fourth of July, and Cinco de Mayo if you want. Celebrate Valentines Day and Halloween and Christmas, Easter, Ramadan, and Passover. Celebrate everything. It's good for the spirit.

Celebrate everything... well, maybe not Confederate History Month.

[NOLASKINSFAN]

Wow, almost 250 posts about a trivial little incident involving some school kids? Seriously, who the **** cares?

LOL, it's not like they said the kids couldn't go to prom or anything (or he is the Practice squad QB) ...

What an awesome thread to come back to but I must hurry along and post as much as I can before Jumbo logs in

I suspect these kids wanted attention, and that's what they got. We all know the first amendment doesn't work both ways, "it's just the way it is son".

This case is particularly sad. If a teabagger would have said this would happen last week, even I would accuse him of fear mongering alas, here we are. We're judging the intent of kids we don't know. "He could have worn that shirt any other day". Every other of group in the school gets a club (at least in my high school) but the American flag would cause problems...weird, I'm sure they pledge to it every day...right?

Good thing is, he VP was out of place and the kids will not be suspended.

Here is the a question: What effect, if any, do you feel this situation could have on these young mens' perception of minorities in America?

[MEANDWARF]

I think its kind of ironic when just the other day I saw a bunch of Hispanic Americans waving American Flags during an anti-immagration rally.

[visionary]

I think its kind of ironic when just the other day I saw a bunch of Hispanic Americans waving American Flags during an anti-immagration rally.

Obviously they were trying to instigate a fight with themselves.

I love this thread.

[MEANDWARF]

:yawnee: You want to see the Constitution as toilet paper? Read the Patriot Act. But then we're off topic now.

Read it

Didn't like it

I'm stop being of topic.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Yes and that group of boys all sitting around the same table just spontaneously decided to wear as much stars and stripes clothing as they could on a day they know is important to many Mexicans. You love how we can see that instigation was the goal, well I love how you make these boys saints just because they are wearing the red, white and blue. This thread is just like the one where the chick got thrown in jail for contempt of court, based totally on an article that was entirely from one perspective (hers). In this case the articles are from the perspective of the boy's mommies who just know their sons are perfect angels and would never do anything to antagonize their fellow classmates.

BTW, if its unbelievable the it shouldn't be VERY predictable.

I'm just glad that you are able to so easily exonerate the boys and their intents and motivations when you have no clue about them, and when the evidence seems to suggest something otherwise.

...and you are referring to them in such a damning way, when you have no idea of their intents and motivations. You even begin your post by stating that they wore "as much stars and stripes clothing as they could on a day they know is important to many Mexicans".

Could that be any more ignorant?

The article states that two of the boys had on American flag bandanas and others had shirts on. Yeah, they were covered head to toe in stars and stripes :doh:

Also, by saying that it's "a day they know is important to many Mexicans", do you know? Did you take a survey? The Mexicans I know think it's a joke, but either way it's a matter of opinion because neither of us really know how the vast majority of Mexicans interpret this "holiday".

...and the whole "spontaneously" wear stars and stripes statement is absurd because you don't know all of the facts (while ironically calling out another on not knowing intents and motivations). Do the boys wear clothes representing America often? We don't know. Do you know their intents and motivations? Not at all.

[AsburySkinsFan]

The question is how far are you willing to drive down the road to find evil, Asbury. From the story, there was no screaming, fighting, pushing, shoving, or even name calling. From the follow up, the school board sided with the parents against the school.

Again, "from the story" is key there is zero indication as to what this group of kids are like on the other 364 days of the year. I guess I just remember High School a little too well and that makes the drive for me down that road not a very long commute. Others here on the other hand want to drive down the road to sainthood which IMO is a much further drive.

I do think that the kids were trying to make a statement. I do think their dress was a conscious choice on that day. They may even be guilty of a minor bit of jerkdom

Agreed.

... but in totality, all they did is say... I love this country... and that's not inciting a riot. That's not evil.

I don't necessarily think you can draw the conclusion that "I love my country" was their point either. If you're engaging in jerkdom then I don't think your statement is patriotism, I think its just being a prick.

And I'll say again. Celebrate everything. Celebrate MLK day and Columbus day and Washington's Birthday, the Fourth of July, and Cinco de Mayo if you want. Celebrate Valentines Day and Halloween and Christmas, Easter, Ramadan, and Passover. Celebrate everything. It's good for the spirit.

Absolutely, and while you're celebrating Chanukah I'll remember to leave my Santa costume at home because it would be awfully prickish of me to flaunt that in front of you.

BTW, in High School me and my group of friends actually protested our school's Columbus Day presentation, which was an outdoor re-enactment of the classic Columbus landing in the New World (minus the disease and murder obviously). Black armbands, the whole nine yards; but we talked with the principle prior to the day and we followed his instructions. In the end we were allowed to make our point, and it brought about some interesting discussions in our History class which revealed a bit more of the reality than the re-enactment.

Yeah, I'm a rebel.

Celebrate everything... well, maybe not Confederate History Month.

Agreed, and if you want to protest in High School make sure the administration knows what you're doing ahead of time.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Ahhhh, what a bunch of BS!!

[twa]

Here is the a question: What effect, if any, do you feel this situation could have on these young mens' perception of minorities in America?

And a very critical question it is.

Such action (minus offensive actions counter to the rules) creates more problems than it addresses.

nice post Burgold,if the schools wish to allow celebrations they need to be inclusive.

[NOLASKINSFAN]

I agree, but wouldn't you also agree that there is a lot of information that we simply aren't privy to, it seems that none of the reporters asked about motivation. There is no comment from the principle about why he thought there might be a fight. As I've repeatedly stated throughout this thread, it seems to me that the principle overreacted, but to instantly canonize the boys as saints and patriots because they are wearing the stars and stripes seems awfully premature. These kids could be the class punks, or the elitist jackholes, and they could be average kids who just wanted to do a bit of their own national pride, but it seems that some folks for whatever reason cannot fathom that these kids would be anything other than patriots while most here are seeing the various potentials and aren't so quick to villianize the principle and make heroes out of the boys eating their brunch.

How much of that post could you apply to the teenage girl not allowed to bring her girlfriend to the prom?

[AsburySkinsFan]

We don't know.

Sounds an awful lot like intentional naivete.

You're telling me that 5 Caucasians in a school with nearly as many Hispanics as Caucasian kids (http://www.publicschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/9733) were completely unaware of Cinco de Mayo and the significance that quite a few Mexicans feel about that date, regardless of what your Mexican friends say, because the Mexicans that I work with in our ministries at the church do celebrate Cinco de Mayo, as apparently do the Mexican kids at Live Oak High School who wore their own patriotic shirts and painted their faces. And you're really going to try to tell me that 5 guys all friends all wore flag t-shirts and two of them broke school rules regarding bandannas as as a coincidence on Cinco de Mayo?

The 5 guys wanted to make a statement, the principle overreacted. There are no villains, there are no heroes, no terrorists, no patriots; just kids being kids.

[AsburySkinsFan]

How much of that post could you apply to the teenage girl not allowed to bring her girlfriend to the prom?

I believed all along that the girl should be allowed to go.

[Burgold]

Absolutely, and while you're celebrating Chanukah I'll remember to leave my Santa costume at home because it would be awfully prickish of me to flaunt that in front of you.

I guess this is the key difference between our experience and perspective. I'm used to being subjected to a thousand images of Christmas during Channukah. Christmas Lights, Christmas Trees, Nativity Scenes, Christmas TV specials, Nutcrackers and Scrooges, and the aforementioned deluge of radio and retail music selection.

I notice it, but it doesn't bother me. I don't consider it prickish that you have a lit house or shopping mall. In fact, usually I think it looks cool and beautiful. I even pitch to my producers to cover that story every year because I think the creativity and care and love behind designing Christmas is pretty special.

It does gets to me when someone says... No, you can't have a menorah included amongst our thousand Christmas items. That's when I feel picked on or left out. That causes me to feel like an outsider.

Still, the majority should not feel squeamish about who they are. The solution is not to turn off the Christmas pageantry. That would be stupid and wrong. I just don't want them to try to squash my ability to celebrate who I am.

Hence, if kids want to wear an American flag... even if it is not with the most innocent and patriotic of attentions, I'm willing to salute it. Everyone should get their chance.

Now, if they protested to prevent people of Mexican Heritage from celebrating El Dios de los Muertos or Cinco De Mayo... that's when I'd have a problem. It's the same problem I have with Jews trying to prevent the lighting of a Christmas tree or kids being unable to wear the colors of their country.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I notice it, but it doesn't bother me. I don't consider it prickish that you have a lit house or shopping mall. In fact, usually I think it looks cool and beautiful. I even pitch to my producers to cover that story every year because I think the creativity and care and love behind designing Christmas is pretty special.

I agree with most of what you said (didn't post it all because of space) I think the Chanukah/Christmas comparison gets a bit muddled because of their proximity to one another on the calendar. Now, say Chanukah was in September and I was in a school nearly split with Christians and Jewish students, and on Chanukah I and my group of friends got together and wore Christmas shirts and two of us wore Santa hats. That would be prickish...entirely allowable (save the Santa hats i.e. bandannas) but still very prickish, and a move that might anger some of the Jewish kids. Remember High School kids are not necessarily as adept at expressing themselves in constructive ways, unlike us adults here at ES...wow that's a scary thought.

[aREDSKIN]

Sounds an awful lot like intentional naivete.

You're telling me that 5 Caucasians in a school with nearly as many Hispanics as Caucasian kids (?

The 5 guys wanted to make a statement, the principle overreacted. There are no villains, there are no heroes, no terrorists, no patriots; just kids being kids.

Your understanding of who the kids are is wrong.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Your understanding of who the kids are is wrong.

You're understanding that my understanding of who the kids are is wrong.

See we can both play that game, fun huh?

[Major Harris]

a day they know is important to many Mexicans.

i have yet to meet a mexican who gives 2 :pooh:'s about cinco de mayo.

that said, we probably don't know the whole story, but my guess would be that the students intentions probably were a bit more than to show national pride. to that end, it probably was a distraction to the learning environment.

[GoSkins561]

i have yet to meet a mexican who gives 2 :pooh:'s about cinco de mayo.

that said, we probably don't know the whole story, but my guess would be that the students intentions probably were a bit more than to show national pride. to that end, it probably was a distraction to the learning environment.

Wasn't the day basically turned into a Cinco de Mayo fun day to beging with?

If it was, was there a learning environment to begin with?

[AsburySkinsFan]

i have yet to meet a mexican who gives 2 :pooh:'s about cinco de mayo.

You might want to go to Live Oak High School and tell those Mexicans there that they aren't supposed to care about Cinco de Mayo, because apparently a bunch of them do care.

that said, we probably don't know the whole story, but my guess would be that the students intentions probably were a bit more than to show national pride. to that end, it probably was a distraction to the learning environment.

Agreed