Politics Daily.com: Glenn Beck Urges Listeners to Leave Churches that Preach Social Justice

[coolbeans]

But... free markets and charity don't contradict each other. In fact, they complement each other.

Noone has ever said anything about charity. Social justice has nothing to do with charity or helping the poor although some churches have taken to the term in that name. Social justice means redistribute the wealth and do away with capitalism. Think about it for one second and you will understand. When did "charity" become such a bad word that they had to change it to social justice? Those who have taken up the social justice cause in the name of charity and helping the needy are simply blind to the fact that they are standing beside the current communist/socialist movement. Stop using charity and social justice interchangably. They are not the same, never were, never will be. They are about as opposite as you can get on the political spectrum. One is about taking away freedom and making everyone the same no matter what they contribute to society, the other is about compassion and love for a fellow human in need.

[jnhay]

The audio clip provided on the website is way too short to give any context to what was said. For now, I'd say the article is bs.

[elkabong82]

Glenn Beck is one of the biggest losers on tv. He's a shock jock who got onto tv because his lunacy fits the agenda of his bosses, IMO.

[Destino]

Depends on the context. I went to a Spanish mass yesterday. During the "announcements" before the final blessing, they spent 15 minutes preaching about the evil of U.S. immigration policy. I kept thinking, "perhaps if they came here legally, it wouldn't be 'evil'."

I've also heard of "support groups" which I presume are introductory courses on circumventing proper immigration protocols.

There's no place for this in Church imo.

You think Jesus is going to agree with your concept of national borders when it comes to helping people in need? You think you could go before God and say something like "I would have loved to have helped him but he was illegal!"

Having said that I agree with you... direct politics in the church is not needed and really just serves to divide people. Not to mention that political grasp of many is so limited that having a political discussion is a waste of time. Immigration law is a complicated issue claiming that it's "evil" or "good" is foolish.

The church should focus on it's concepts and ignore nation and laws entirely.

[Dan T.]

I thought Glenn Beck was a Mormon? His wife converted him.

I hate to be the typo police, but the word is "moron".

[ABQCOWBOY]

You think Jesus is going to agree with your concept of national borders when it comes to helping people in need? You think you could go before God and say something like "I would have loved to have helped him but he was illegal!"

Having said that I agree with you... direct politics in the church is not needed and really just serves to divide people. Not to mention that political grasp of many is so limited that having a political discussion is a waste of time. Immigration law is a complicated issue claiming that it's "evil" or "good" is foolish.

The church should focus on it's concepts and ignore nation and laws entirely.

I do not believe that the Lord would want anybody to starve. However, the Scripture does say that the God helps those who help theselves. If you study the scriptures, it is clear that the Lord and his words advocate working. In Genesis, the Lord says that he took Man placed him into the Garden of Eden to dress it and keep it. In Thessalonians, Paul says, "If any would not work, neither shall he eat." He also says, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." In fact, throughout the Scriptures, it is clearly not an advocate of Entitlement, so to speak. The Scriptures would seem to suggest that a Hand Up is what is recommended, as opposed to a hand out.

This is why, IMO, it is never a good idea to try and bend the Scriptures to support Political views. It is always better to try and live your life, if you are Christian, in such a way as to find a way to satisfy the word of God and at the same time, make your political views serve those laws, so to speak.

[Fergasun]

Right wing revealed. Guess he didn't read the part about how the church shared with each other all their stuff....

[ABQCOWBOY]

Right wing revealed. Guess he didn't read the part about how the church shared with each other all their stuff....

I don't understand this statement. I don't even know that you were talking to me Ferg. If you were, I am sorry, it went over my head.

[zoony]

the ultra right wing talking heads are running out of targets. it's hard to fill up several hours of air-time everyday

[hokie4redskins]

You think Jesus is going to agree with your concept of national borders when it comes to helping people in need? You think you could go before God and say something like "I would have loved to have helped him but he was illegal!"

Having said that I agree with you... direct politics in the church is not needed and really just serves to divide people. Not to mention that political grasp of many is so limited that having a political discussion is a waste of time. Immigration law is a complicated issue claiming that it's "evil" or "good" is foolish.

The church should focus on it's concepts and ignore nation and laws entirely.

God before country, or country before God? I prefer the former. Yet I've found myself amid this dilemma many times. There is, however, no reason these people cannot be helped without violating U.S. sovereignty. Can we agree on that?

Besides, He never concerned Himself with the petty politics of this world. And you know this. I'm certain using His Church as a platform to protest U.S. immigration policy is unnecessary.

I see. Churches complaining about unfair laws and public policies - that never happens. Something is wrong when a church advocates for the change of a law - a proper conservative church would never do such a thing.

And I presume that you have no idea what you are talking about.

But then, I personally have helped a legal immigrant with a green card obtain her US citizenship with the assistance of a church support group, so when I talk about the subject, I'm not just blowing smoke out of my azz.

You think people responsible for colluding through euphemistic "support groups" are going to disclose their intentions to legal counsels?

The fact that you presume benevolent (read: legal) intentions of such activities only demonstrates your naivete. Do you truly think "Obtaining false documents 101" isn't a required course? Really?

I love my Church. But I am indeed aware of some activities under the guise of social justice perpetrated by people in Her name. Tell you what, don't tell me about my Church and I won't presume to know squat about your meaningless, fleeting, and agnostic existence. Fair enough?

[zoony]

whoops n/m i misread

[mjah]

People are free to leave their churches for any reason they choose.

They are also free to avoid the Glenn Beck show for any reason they choose.

Something tells me that those who see his words as a call to action will be choosing the latter option long before the former.

[Jumbo]

Tell you what, don't tell me about my Church and I won't presume to know squat about your meaningless, fleeting, and agnostic existence. Fair enough?

Adios, amigo.

You have had your share of warnings by several moderators over time, and again just recently just by two different staff members. You have made your choice.

[Destino]

I do not believe that the Lord would want anybody to starve. However, the Scripture does say that the God helps those who help theselves. If you study the scriptures, it is clear that the Lord and his words advocate working. In Genesis, the Lord says that he took Man placed him into the Garden of Eden to dress it and keep it. In Thessalonians, Paul says, "If any would not work, neither shall he eat." He also says, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." In fact, throughout the Scriptures, it is clearly not an advocate of Entitlement, so to speak. The Scriptures would seem to suggest that a Hand Up is what is recommended, as opposed to a hand out.

The scriptures also banish to hell those that when confronted with those in need did not act to help them. It's not a contradiction but instead the lesson as a whole. The Lord says that you need to work, sloth being a sin, but he also reminds you that you aren't the judge of man. Thus when you are confronted with a person in need it's not your call to judge them worthy, instead you are commanded to help, not out of excess but at great cost to you if need be. The first is how live the other is how you are judged.

[Destino]

God before country, or country before God? I prefer the former. Yet I've found myself amid this dilemma many times. There is, however, no reason these people cannot be helped without violating U.S. sovereignty. Can we agree on that?

Besides, He never concerned Himself with the petty politics of this world. And you know this. I'm certain using His Church as a platform to protest U.S. immigration policy is unnecessary.

Absolutely I was actually agreeing with you on that point. The God question is far more complex and takes into account factors politics does not and should not. Politics do not belong in church most of the time... obviously there is some crossover that can't be avoided.

[NavyDave]

I call on people to leave churches that Preach God Damn America.

[Destino]

I call on people to leave churches that Preach God Damn America.

Or "God is punishing America" which interestingly enough could be restated "God has damned America". Funny how language makes one unreasonable and the other mainstream politics.

[Fergasun]

ABQCowboy,

No, I wasn't talking to you making a statement about Beck. I want to see if other right-wing folks give any attention to his comments; which they probably won't. I don't get why he is painting such a wide brush here... these types of social programs need to grow *more* in churches... and by him talking bad about them it is likely to stifle these types of initiatives.

Is it wrong to spend time and volunteer and feed the poor or help needy/underprivleged kids have a better life? Yet if the churches stop these types of programs it leaves a vacuum... likely to be filled by the government.

I thought communism and nazi'ism were actions by the state no-less... isn't he Mr. Liberty, yet he's trying to tell/influence organizations what they should do...

[Smoot Point Really]

I have spent the last 10 minutes reading/skimming this thread from beginning to end... My observations:

1). The Kingdom of God has no borders, but the US Government does...

2). According to what I know... Pain & suffering aren't considered evil... I'll leave it at that for now (iPhone... Must make short).

3). Glenn Beck, Hitler, Stalin, etc... They are all made in the image of God... There are a lot of people talking religion in this thread while ignoring the obvious.

4). I don't really care how people use the term "social justice"... It sounds like whoever uses the term is demanding someone else live by their rules instead of living them out themselves.

[Thiebear]

You're right, he totally hijacked the term and made it into a Nazi/Communist rant against social justice preachers like myself. The worst part of all of this is he is using key buzz words order to scare people away from their preachers and their communities of worship

I would agree with your premise here... He whole schtick is anti- take my money and give it to others.. (i'm not that far off when i saw 50% of my Severance check go to taxes. So much for 4 months to look, now its 2...(seems there should be SOME things not taxed(i got one))

So though i think (Like ASF) said in another thread: Stop being so simple on C02 and Oxygen that its being done here also... Beck never shuts up about God fixing your life.. Trust me, I noticed....

He just morphs everything into Socialism is coming. And like everything else he makes a TON of money pushing it too far about.

SEIU + Current Administration + (insert this weeks issue here) = the debil.

[Burgold]

I do not believe that the Lord would want anybody to starve. However, the Scripture does say that the God helps those who help theselves. If you study the scriptures, it is clear that the Lord and his words advocate working.

Who's to say leaving a destitute country and crossing a border risking jail and getting shot isn't "helping yourself" It sure isn't doing nothing. It's putting forth effort and risk in hopes of a better life.

For me, this argument falls entirely flat. (Mind you, I actually am for much stricter border control, but I don't want my religious people advocating that. I want them advocating compassion and do unto man as you would have them do unto you)

I think the big part II of this for me is that I hate, absolutely hate the casual invocation of Nazis. As someone who was raised by a Holocaust survivor I have an idea of what it was about or at least how it impacted and shaped their life. Preaching "Social Justice" and wanted to help people, especially people with a different ethnic background, doesn't sound anything whatsoever like Nazism.

It is ignornant and lessens the real lessons that we should carry forward from that time.

[pointyfootball]

I think the big part II of this for me is that I hate, absolutely hate the casual invocation of Nazis. As someone who was raised by a Holocaust survivor I have an idea of what it was about or at least how it impacted and shaped their life. Preaching "Social Justice" and wanted to help people, especially people with a different ethnic background, doesn't sound anything whatsoever like Nazism.

It is ignornant and lessens the real lessons that we should carry forward from that time.

But that's the way people who want to cause a stir get attention. Mention "communist", "Nazi", "Jackbooted", "Witch Trials", "McCarthy" and a plethora of other titles to make people get upset. Myself, I've gotten to the point where I do my best to ignore people who make a living saying things to rile others up. IMO, they are part of the problem, and not of any solution. Michael Moore, Rush, etc., most likely prefer when the opposition is in power, because their exposure goes way up.

As to the premise of the OP, I have no idea whether he was talking about leaving a church that encourages, or more importantly, PRACTICES, social justice, or leaving a church that uses it's podium to push socialist agendas. I'm personally against churches using their worship time to push Leadership's political agendas, even if I might agree with those. To me, it reeks of assuming your congregants are dumb and incapable of making decisions on their own.

A church SHOULD be about social justice. Wherever there is someone hurting or in true need, that is where a church should be. Some churches are phenomenal at helping, others only make a token gesture. The real challenge for churches is, how much? Their are obviously freeloaders out there, and does a church have the right to say, "no"? I've been at churches that will not help some because they refuse to help themselves, and that's a tough call.

[Burgold]

But that's the way people who want to cause a stir get attention. Mention "communist", "Nazi", "Jackbooted", "Witch Trials", "McCarthy" and a plethora of other titles to make people get upset. Myself, I've gotten to the point where I do my best to ignore people who make a living saying things to rile others up. IMO, they are part of the problem, and not of any solution. Michael Moore, Rush, etc., most likely prefer when the opposition is in power, because their exposure goes way up.

But it's that very desensitization that could lead to very real problems. It's just incredibly irresponsible and dangerous. I don't care whether it was idiots calling Bush Hitler or Beck calling Churches Nazi. It's a very dangerous casual loose association. And it makes people stop paying attention to the point that we are surprised when the real monsters who spout the same stuff Beck, Hanity, Rush, Olbermann, Myers, etc rant act we are suddenly surprised.

I support Beck's right to share his opinion and exercise his freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't watch his own tongue. Ratings are worth less than lives.

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To the other point, I think that the one place where it's most appropriate to push morality or a point of view is in a church, synagogue, or mosque. These people are supposed to help guide our spiritual and moral development. You can't do that and remain detatched from the real world. In fact, someone who preaches do good deeds and does none is all but worthless and that's why the idea of social justice, or missions, or church soup kitchens etc. is fine by me. I even think a Church has a right to speak on issues of marriage, abortion, and immigration because there is a moral component to that and therefore it is a worthy venue for these thoughts to be considered. I wouldn't want a church or synagogue or mosque setting policy, but I don't mind them having input esp before their congregants as they try to figure out this mess we've made of the world.

Hopefully, they do so responsibly.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Here's a pretty informative description of the church and it's function [if any] in the times we are now living in. The church age has an end.

http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/frame/

[gbear]

As an agnostic who has long wanted religion out of politics to the extent possible, will any be upset with me if I laugh at those same people now wanting politics out of religion?

There does seem to be some serious irony here, but maybe it's just to my twisted perceptions. I think maybe Beck, if this quote is accurate, is doing more for separation of church and state than any action I've seen taken in the last few decades.

It takes a Republican to expand medicare. It took Nixon to go to China. Maybe it will take a "conservative" to separate the Church from the state simply by bringing to teh forfront of people's minds that historically church/state relationships have not been one way streets. The "protection of the state" is not the only reason to wish for clear separation. I would hope the "protection of the church" would count for something too. I would direct those interested to study up on Catholic Church history if you think the two are not linked on a two way street if one goes down that road. If you want more modern history, I direct you to any one of a number of countries in the Middle East.