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Politics Daily.com: Glenn Beck Urges Listeners to Leave Churches that Preach Social Justice

AsburySkinsFan

By AsburySkinsFan
in The Tailgate

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ABQCOWBOY

ABQCOWBOY

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You can't formulate an opinion on this topic when Beck is obviously hijacking the term social justice and manipulating it in such a way as to further his Communist=Nazi rant (which is simply nonsensical to begin with) and then using that rant to call people out of their churches?! My goodness, what exactly WOULD it take for you to develop an opinion on the matter? I think more likely the problem is that you don't WANT to express an opinion against Beck, but that's just my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice

This, to me, is not a fair characterisation. Social justice is the application of the concept of justice on a social scale.

The term "social justice" was coined by the Jesuit Luigi Taparelli in the 1840s. The idea was elaborated by the moral theologian John A. Ryan, who initiated the concept of a living wage. Father Coughlin used the term in his publications in the 1930s and 40s, and the concept was further expanded upon by John Rawls' writing in the 1990s. It is a part of Catholic social teaching and is one of the Four Pillars of the Green Party upheld by the worldwide green parties. Some tenets of social justice have been adopted by those on the left of the political spectrum.

Social justice is also a concept that some use to describe the movement towards a socially just world. In this context, social justice is based on the concepts of human rights and equality and involves a greater degree of economic egalitarianism through progressive taxation, income redistribution, or even property redistribution, policies aimed toward achieving that which developmental economists refer to as more equality of opportunity and equality of outcome than may currently exist in some societies or are available to some classes in a given society.

None of this has any place in Scripture.

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coolbeans

coolbeans

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice

This, to me, is not a fair characterisation. Social justice is the application of the concept of justice on a social scale.

The term "social justice" was coined by the Jesuit Luigi Taparelli in the 1840s. The idea was elaborated by the moral theologian John A. Ryan, who initiated the concept of a living wage. Father Coughlin used the term in his publications in the 1930s and 40s, and the concept was further expanded upon by John Rawls' writing in the 1990s. It is a part of Catholic social teaching and is one of the Four Pillars of the Green Party upheld by the worldwide green parties. Some tenets of social justice have been adopted by those on the left of the political spectrum.

Social justice is also a concept that some use to describe the movement towards a socially just world. In this context, social justice is based on the concepts of human rights and equality and involves a greater degree of economic egalitarianism through progressive taxation, income redistribution, or even property redistribution, policies aimed toward achieving that which developmental economists refer to as more equality of opportunity and equality of outcome than may currently exist in some societies or are available to some classes in a given society.

None of this has any place in Scripture.

In other words, anti-capitalist, anti-freedom, anti-American, and Socialist. Just as I have been saying but soo many want to look past the fact that social justice is at the core of the modern Green/Socialist/Communist movements.

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mcsluggo

mcsluggo

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Wow I think some people either didn't understand what you just wrote, or don't understand what beck was saying. I saw his program last week and I agree the term social justice has been used to essentially do the opposite of what it would seem to mean.

Its not actually about justice... It's about getting even with the White Majority primarily. As with Affirmitive action to the extreme, it is not about actually helping the down trodden or minority rise above his circumstances to stand on his own, but to drag the majority down to their level so we have equality of misery. (Isn't that what's happening in our school systems today?)

oh ... my ... lord....!

I HOPE that i missed the silly little smiley-winky emoticon here.... but I don't think there was one.

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Destino

Destino

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We are commanded by the bible to seek what is right and good over that which is sinful and evil, to say that Jesus was saying not to judge good and evil, is one of the biggest lies in society today.

So you're saying that when faced with a person in need that the bible commands you to pass judgement on that person and decide if they are worthy of your help? That is specifically what I was talking about.

As for your claim that we are supposed to judge others... we are told specifically to HELP others and judge them only after we have looked inward at our own faults. I don't see how you determine that we are supposed to judge others from any of this. We are not the judges of man, we are however commanded to help. This is not to say that we should ignore obvious sin as getting people away from such evil is "help". What we are not supposed to do is walk the earth pointing out the faults in others to show how righteous we are.

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ABQCOWBOY

ABQCOWBOY

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So you're saying that when faced with a person in need that the bible commands you to pass judgement on that person and decide if they are worthy of your help? That is specifically what I was talking about.

As for your claim that we are supposed to judge others... we are told specifically to HELP others and judge them only after we have looked inward at our own faults. I don't see how you determine that we are supposed to judge others from any of this. We are not the judges of man, we are however commanded to help. This is not to say that we should ignore obvious sin as getting people away from such evil is "help". What we are not supposed to do is walk the earth pointing out the faults in others to show how righteous we are.

No, I don't believe we are told this. I also don't believe that we are commanded. That, IMO, is not accurate. It is, in fact, the exact opposite of what God is trying to do.

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Destino

Destino

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I would be interested in the books you speak of. I agree, it is not your place to judge. However, it is also not your place to be your neighbors keeper. As I said in an earlier post, the Bible would seem to support a hand up, not a hand out.

40"The King will answer them, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.' 41Then he will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you didn't give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; 43I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in; naked, and you didn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me.'

44"Then they will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help you?'

45"Then he will answer them, saying, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to me.' 46These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Notice that the Lord is not saying that when he was hungry "you told him to get a job". The bible supports a hand out and a hand up. The individual is commanded to work and help. The test described above should be burned into the mind and heart of all Christians because Jesus himself is describing a very real test that men may face in their life times the failing of which leads to "eternal punishment".

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AsburySkinsFan

AsburySkinsFan

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Notice that the Lord is not saying that when he was hungry "you told him to get a job". The bible supports a hand out and a hand up. The individual is commanded to work and help. The test described above should be burned into the mind and heart of all Christians because Jesus himself is describing a very real test that men may face in their life times the failing of which leads to "eternal punishment".

Matthew 5:42 Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.

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ABQCOWBOY

ABQCOWBOY

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Right.

eaADQTeZRCY

I don't typically engage in Pictionary Discussion. If you do not wish to discuss this further, that is fine. Simply say so or disengage from the discussion.

The Term, Social Justice, is not a formal description of anything. It is a concept used to describe certain ideology. It is as good a source as any when discussion something that has no formal meaning.

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AsburySkinsFan

AsburySkinsFan

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I don't typically engage in Pictionary Discussion. If you do not wish to discuss this further, that is fine. Simply say so or disengage from the discussion.

Wikipedia is a joke that's the point.

The Term, Social Justice, is not a formal description of anything. It is a concept used to describe certain ideology. It is as good a source as any when discussion something that has no formal meaning.

No word or term has meaning, they have uses as such this idea that there is no "formal meaning" for social justice is entirely irrational. Wikipedia is no better a source for information than a message board.

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ABQCOWBOY

ABQCOWBOY

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40"The King will answer them, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.' 41Then he will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you didn't give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; 43I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in; naked, and you didn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me.'

44"Then they will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help you?'

45"Then he will answer them, saying, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to me.' 46These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Notice that the Lord is not saying that when he was hungry "you told him to get a job". The bible supports a hand out and a hand up. The individual is commanded to work and help. The test described above should be burned into the mind and heart of all Christians because Jesus himself is describing a very real test that men may face in their life times the failing of which leads to "eternal punishment".

What book?

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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You're right that it is a big divide, and you're right to note that it is along the lines of how Christians understand the Eschaton. Those who believe that Christ is bringing the Kingdom with Him at the 2nd Coming tend to follow my description (or something along those lines) however, those who lean more Amillennial (no 2nd Coming) typically understand that the Kingdom of God IS supposed to be established BY the Church, a prime example of that is the Roman Catholic Church. There are some conservative Christians who blend the two (Zionists, and some Fundamentalists) who blend 2nd Coming theology with the idea that the church is supposed to establish the Kingdom of God in a very real political sense on Earth before the 2nd coming, add to that an unhealthy does of nationalism and watch out.
You really should do a little more research. I'm an Amillennial and I believe in a Second Coming. And I'm a Baptist.
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AsburySkinsFan

AsburySkinsFan

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Matthew 25.

Matthew 25:32-46

All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?' 40 And the king will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.' 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?' 45 Then he will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

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ABQCOWBOY

ABQCOWBOY

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Wikipedia is a joke that's the point.

No word or term has meaning, they have uses as such this idea that there is no "formal meaning" for social justice is entirely irrational. Wikipedia is no better a source for information than a message board.

If you have a better source you would like to discuss the term with, that is fine with me. I am happy to do this and will not post silly Youtube links that distract from the actual conversation. Go ahead and lets discuss whatever link you would like to use instead.

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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Two things:

1. Glenn Beck is a Mormon. Orthodox Christians should give no more weight to his opinion regarding theology than they would an unbeliever.

2. Beck could be referring to Liberation Theology, but I'm not sure. I get aggravated when I read anything he says, and really can't stand him.

Liberation Theology is predominantly found in Latin America among Roman Catholic churches.

http://www.theopedia.com/Liberation_theology

Liberation theology is a school of thought that explores the relationship between Christian theology and political activism, particularly in areas of social justice, poverty, and human rights. The main methodology of liberation theology is to do theology (i.e. speak of God) from the viewpoint of the economically poor and oppressed of the human community.

Liberation theology focuses on Jesus as not only Savior but also as Liberator. Emphasis is placed on those parts of the Bible where Jesus' mission is described in terms of liberation, and as a bringer of justice. This is interpreted as a call to arms to carry out this mission of justice -- literally by some.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

Liberation theology is a movement in Christian theology which understands the teachings of Jesus Christ in terms of a liberation from unjust political, economic, or social conditions. It has been described as "an interpretation of Christian faith through the poor's suffering, their struggle and hope, and a critique of society and the Catholic faith and Christianity through the eyes of the poor".[1]

In the mass media, 'Liberation Theology' can sometimes be used loosely, to refer to a wide variety of activist Christian thought. In this article the term will be used in its technical theological sense.

The term was coined by the Peruvian priest Gustavo Gutiérrez, who wrote one of the movement's most famous books, A Theology of Liberation (1971). Other noted exponents are Leonardo Boff of Brazil, Jon Sobrino of El Salvador, and Juan Luis Segundo of Uruguay.[2][3][4]

Although liberation theology has grown into an international and inter-denominational movement, it began as a movement within the Roman Catholic church in Latin America in the 1950s - 1960s. It arose principally as a moral reaction to the poverty caused by social injustice in that region. It achieved prominence in the 1970s and 1980s.

The influence of liberation theology diminished after liberation theologians using Marxist concepts were admonished by the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) in 1984 and 1986. The Vatican documents criticize certain strains of Liberation Theology for focusing on institutional dimensions of sin to the exclusion of the individual; and for undermining church authority by identifying the church hierarchy as members of the privileged class.[5]

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AsburySkinsFan

AsburySkinsFan

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If you have a better source you would like to discuss the term with, that is fine with me. I am happy to do this and will not post silly Youtube links that distract from the actual conversation. Go ahead and lets discuss whatever link you would like to use instead.

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj0702&article=070265

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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Most do not, and if you notice I said "typically" I never set out to establish an all encompassing description.
Most Roman Catholics are Amill (or Optimistic PostMill; very similar; read Johnathan Edwards) as well as most Presbyterians (read: RC Sproul )and Reformed Baptists.

Last I checked all of those believe in a Second Coming. Amillennialists just believe that the return of Christ happens after the thousand-year reign, a reign that occurs in heaven, in the intermediate state, and not upon the earth. Those who have died in faith and entered into the presence of Christ share his rule and reign during the current church age in which we now live.

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ABQCOWBOY

ABQCOWBOY

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Matthew 25:32-46

All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?' 40 And the king will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.' 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?' 45 Then he will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Parables, in this particular parable, I don't believe that the meaning is to provide indefinitely for every person who is in need and will not do for themselves. As I said earlier, the Bible seems to recommend a hand up, not a hand out. These particular verses reference the Jews and their treatment of Samaritans, who were dispised at the time.

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