In Favor of a 3-4 Defense (MET)

[dallasfan]

We have 2 former LB's in Jason Taylor and Andre Carter that both had the most productive seasons of their careers as LB's

Andre Carter's two worst season's came as a 3-4 OLB. He totalled 6.5 sacks in 2 seasons in that position.

They have at best average DT's, Jay Ratliff, Chris Canty and Marcus Spears, yet they still manage to get sacks, (Ratliff has 7) as a result of their LB's in the 3-4 being so damn effective.

Jay Ratlif definately isn't averege

[PokerPacker]

if anyone has an underperforming d-line, look to Green Bay. Actually, a 3-4 D would be nice considering our depth at the Linebacker position, we have 4 viable linebackers even with Barnett out for the season.

[redskins2473]

That 4-3 defense that "sucks" is 5th in the NFL in yards allowed and 8th in the NFL in points allowed.

Not a big fan of statistics in this case. Purely watching the games, teams are sitting on leads to some degree knowing that our offense can not score. Being highly ranked means little when the 4th quarter arrives and teams are gashing the D for time consuming, multi-play drives. Or, have an eternity to throw and sneak one in over the top to ice things like in the Rams game.

At some point, you have to create turnovers/pressure and its sickening to watch other teams QB's pass from a clean pocket for large stretches of games. They have the personnel in the secondary which leaves the D line as lacking.

By switching to a 3-4, you may create more pressure but hurt the D overall with the personnel they have now. Stick with the 4-3 and get a playmaking tackle this year. Pretty much stuck with Taylor so address his position in the 2010 draft or free agency. This way, you address the need to create pressure while keeping the continuity that Blache has established. Definitely don't want to see this team go to being bad on both sides of the ball due to change.

[Capt Rich Fla]

With our defensive line we might as well run a 1-6 defense.

[skinsfan07]

Andre Carter's two worst season's came as a 3-4 OLB. He totalled 6.5 sacks in 2 seasons in that position.

Jay Ratlif definately isn't averege

He JUST is having his first good season this year. Last year Ratliff wasn't nearly as good.

[zeroburrito]

He JUST is having his first good season this year. Last year Ratliff wasn't nearly as good.

to his credit last year was his first year starting since we had a higher paid bust starting in his place.

[kingdaddy]

I love the idea of going to a 3-4 defense. It seems to me that 3-4 defenses have more athletes that flat out make plays. The Steelers defense is the one to try and emulate. They fly around and hit you.

If Laron Landry is the player we think he is, then we have to use him like Pittsburgh uses Troy Polamalu. Let Laron free-lance and hit people. How quiet has he been this year?

[IbleedBnG83]

With our defensive line we might as well run a 1-6 defense.

Agreed!:applause::laugh:

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

With our defensive line we might as well run a 1-6 defense.

:rotflmao::rotflmao:

(Guess i'll keep my long held dream of a Buddy Ryan esq 46 D to myself for another year. .).

Hail.

[Old Bay]

What about keeping the 4-3, but actually doing STUNTS AND TWISTS!!!

I think this is a part of the defensive philosophy Blache has. He seems to have a contain mentality with the D-line. If the guys begin to stunt, gaps can open, which throws the scheme out of whack. I've even read that sometimes the DE's pull up and don't try to go too far on the outside to maintain that wall to contain.

I think it's a mixure of the scheme and our talent level that makes it what it is. If we had a more talented line, perhaps the stunts and twists could be worked out to help? But since they are the weak point they just need to hold their ground for as long as possible until the linebackers and the strong safety can come in and clean up.

I don't think we're any closer to having a better 3-4 D then a 4-3. We've got a pretty decent 4-3 now, so why not look to improve that instead of gambling and messing with a system that has never been implemented here?

[KingGibbs]

I doubt if we have one DL that would suceed in the 3-4. Number one you need a beast of a nose tackle that is well over 300 LB and two more guys weighing 300 LBS to man the tackle spots.

As most of you know the primary responsibility of the 3-4 DL are to contain the gaps and each one of them are responsible for two gaps. I don't see one of our DL capable of doing that with exception being Daniels because he is extremely strong and would play one of the tackle spots most like the LT, but we don't even know if he'll be back and he's getting long in the tooth.

Montgomery may and I emphasize may be able to play in the 3-4, but I don't see it.

That would mean a complete overhaul which I'm all for anyway, but I don't see how we could with the personnel we are handcuffed to contract wise.

[JetSkins]

I would prefer the 3-4 as well. But you have to have the right pieces, which is not easy. I mean who would be the NT?

[skinsfan07]

I would prefer the 3-4 as well. But you have to have the right pieces, which is not easy. I mean who would be the NT?

possibly Monty. He's young and has a ton of upside. If he trains for the 3-4 NT correctly, he could be very good at it.

[skeenzfan]

That 4-3 defense that "sucks" is 5th in the NFL in yards allowed and 8th in the NFL in points allowed.

You can throw stats around all you want but anyone who has watched the games knows that we have zero pressure on the QB. We have almost no playmakers in the front seven. Stats don't tell the entire story. We couldn't stop the cowboys and ravens from having 8-9 min drives @ the end of the game. Hell even Cincy burned 6 min of the clock and got a field goal. Most QB's playing against us have zero grass stains on their jerserys if you know what I mean.

[Sportsphreek]

This is ridiculous...

You act like we can just switch on a whim and everything will work out if we draft a LB and DT/NG. SORRY - doesn't work that way!

Using a 3-4 defense would require a complete retooling of the D-Line and LB's.

None of our LB's, ESPECIALLY, Fletcher are big enough to play in a 3-4.

Carter and Taylor are not fast enough to drop back into coverage as a LB anymore.

We don't have a big enough DE, save for Phillip Daniels, who has age catching up to him.

We don't have a DT/NG - no not a single one could play NG in a 3-4 scheme right now.

All of these personnell issues AS WELL AS the fact that they players would have to learn a completely new defensive scheme!! You would need to learn new assignments, new zones, over/under assignments, blitzing scheme's and packages....

Worst idea ever.... our 4-3 is working just fine right now. Not getting sacks is a result of us not having drafted a legitimate lineman since Chris Samuels in 2000!

[Warpath11]

This would require a complete overhaul of not only the defense but the defensive coaching staff. Not sure if Danny and Vinny will ever concede we are in rebuilding mode so they will continue the trend of mediocrity we are stuck in. Most good teams today went through a rebuilding phase. I mean look at Tennesse and Baltimore after their superbowl runs. Both teams were blown up and rebuilt and they are now reaping the rewards.

As far as a coordinator we need to hire, if we go with the switch, is Keith Butler the Steelers LB coach for the last 3/4 years. I've said in other posts he is farmiliar with Zorn because they played together on the Seattle teams in the late 70s early 80s.

Having said all that without an overhaul of the defense and maybe a few years of less than standard play we will never implement the 3-4. What I find funny is that during our coaching search Dan and Vinny tried to hire Rex Ryan away from the Ravens to run our defense. They were not successful in their attempt but what it does tell me is that they are willing to maybe look at going to a 3-4 (as that is what Rex likes to run). On the other hand Rex has also run many successul 4-3 defenses so not sure if he would have converted to a 3-4 if he got the job here since he would not have had the players to run it.

[NoleSkin21]

No chance Taylor or Carter can play OLB in a 3-4. Taylor would get destroyed in run support and Carter would get killed in pass defense. I wouldn't mind seeing us move into that 3-4 scheme eventually, but not with this personnel.

[NoleSkin21]

I love this thread. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I want a faster defense that can actually get to the quarterback. Like the Steelers or Ravens. No we really don't have the perfect personel, but thats why there's the draft and free agency. Both Taylor and Carter have played 3-4 rush linebackers before. Like I saw in some earlier posts, the biggest problem is a NT. It is hard to find a really good one like Wilfork, Hampton, or Jenkins. A guy like Alabama'sTerrance Cody will be a top 10 pick if he declares. Unfortunately I don't see this happening, unless we hire Bill Cower or something.

Also there are some pass rush guys that could declare for the NFL draft. My favorite is Everette Brown.

As a die hard Noles fan and Skins fan I would love to get EB! But lets not consider him a pass rushing savior. I would venture to guess he will be average at best in the NFL and be a 4 to 5 sack a year guy.

[Mooka]

We're an incredibly good defense. Imagine how much better our defense would be if our offense could sustain drives and score points.

You'd think that. And of course you're right to an extent, our offense can't friggin score and our defense is tired by the end of the game.

But remember in 2005 when we were 5-6 and wondering what happened to our defense? Opposing teams aren't pressed against us. When they are, they march right down the field. Couldn't stop the rams, 2nd Dallas game they marched right down the field and ended the game, Baltimore marched right down the field when we closed it to 17-10, and the Bengals mustered a 7minute drive in the 4th quarter to go up 2 scores.

People were saying after the Dallas game how the D did their job because they held Dallas to 14 points, but they didn't really hold them to 14 points; Dallas just didn't need to score anymore.

Our defense is good, but overrated. We need changes.

3-4 is too drastic though. We'd need a new D-Coord for one.

[kuraitengai]

We have 2 former LB's in Jason Taylor and Andre Carter that both had the most productive seasons of their careers as LB's

are you sure about carter? i know he had a huge season in 2002. but were they running a 3-4 then? i remember reading that carter was horrible as a 3-4 OLB cuz he couldnt make the transition from being a down lineman. so are you sure that the big year was in the 3-4 and not the 4-3 before the switch?

[Slateman]

Taylor hated the 3-4. Thats why he was willing to come here. And Carter did nothing in it.

[skinsfan190]

Taylor hated the 3-4. Thats why he was willing to come here. And Carter did nothing in it.

I'm not so sure about that, plus he was defensive player of the year in a 3-4

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

possibly Monty. He's young and has a ton of upside. If he trains for the 3-4 NT correctly, he could be very good at it.

Montgomery has the right body size to be a DE in a 3-4. I think he would be pushed all over the field as an NT.

He is 6'6 and 310. Casey Hampton is 6'1/325. Ngata is 6'4/340.

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

That 4-3 defense that "sucks" is 5th in the NFL in yards allowed and 8th in the NFL in points allowed.

You took the words out of my mouth.

[dallasfan]

He JUST is having his first good season this year. Last year Ratliff wasn't nearly as good.

he had 4 sacks in 05' (back-up DE) and 3 sacks in 06' (starting NT), these are pretty good numbers for a 3-4 linemen (by comparison Kevin Williams totalled 3 and 5 sacks those same 2 seasons).