bulldog Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 exactly. the Redskins are simply not a talented enough team to take the 'best' player available IF that player projects to a spot where the team already has MILLIONS committed to a pro bowler who is only 26 years old. the team only needs 1 tight end on the field for 80% of the snaps, so that means the backup is only going to contribute on 20% of the plays. Davis is not even able to get on the field as the backup because he is not the blocker that Todd Yoder is. Again, there is nothing wrong with Davis. I am sure he will have a solid NFL career. But one wonders whether after his rookie contract he will enjoy his prime years on another roster in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Exactly. the Redskins are simply not a talented enough team to take the 'best' player available IF that player projects to a spot where the team already has MILLIONS committed to a pro bowler who is only 26 years old. the team only needs 1 tight end on the field for 80% of the snaps, so that means the backup is only going to contribute on 20% of the plays. Precisely. Whereas, a DE like Calais Campbell might have instantly bolstered a position of need for the present and future, while still allowing us to grab 2 big pass catchers like Thomas and Kelly (or Sweed, or a smaller one like Jackson). Campbell would be starting LDE on our line, possibly solving that position for years, and we'd still have our draft pick we traded away for Taylor next year (with which we could have added a starting OL, or LB or CB). Instead, we will have neither the young DE nor the young potential starter from the draft pick, leaving us 2 extra positions to fill and only having 4 draft picks next year. Davis is a talent, will probably have a nice career, and I'm glad to have him. However, he's a luxury that a team with major holes on 4-5 different units likely can't afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dent19 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 when we can use the offense like its supposed to be used, he will factor in. right now, JC is just learning this system and we're lucky to have 2 wins. i think he was a good pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2MOSS Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I mean it's only been 3 weeks. Exactly.. If he was a 3rd or 4th year guy and still not getting on to the field then, yeah.. Dude is most likely a bust. 3 weeks though? Give em a chance.. PS~ Horton is awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Precisely. Whereas, a DE like Calais Campbell might have instantly bolstered a position of need for the present and future, while still allowing us to grab 2 big pass catchers like Thomas and Kelly (or Sweed, or a smaller one like Jackson). Campbell would be starting LDE on our line, possibly solving that position for years, and we'd still have our draft pick we traded away for Taylor next year (with which we could have added a starting OL, or LB or CB). Instead, we will have neither the young DE nor the young potential starter from the draft pick, leaving us 2 extra positions to fill and only having 4 draft picks next year. Davis is a talent, will probably have a nice career, and I'm glad to have him. However, he's a luxury that a team with major holes on 4-5 different units likely can't afford. I'm wondering where these "major holes" are. We drafted 10 guys and none of them are no brainer starters over what we have right now. And no, from what I've seen of Campbell so far, he isn't an instant starter on our team. Hell, he's not a starter on the Cardinals. The only reason why he'd see more playing time is because we rotate our ends. Meanwhile, not only did we add Taylor, we added a still relatively young Erasmus James and drafted Rob Jackson, who has flashed some potential in the preseason. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejaydana Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 With Cooley entrenched as the stud TE of this O, what's the future for this guy? Yoders future replacement? Is he much of a blocker to even be that?Just trying to think of what were the plans for him when they drafted this kid. He's obviously got some talent in catching the football but he's not seen much action so far. How long have you been watching football exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfmonk Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I dont mind the pick of Davis and getting 2 first round talent WR's is hard to knock but I still wanted OL help with 2 of those picks. Campbell would have been a nice pick too but we need the OL help alot more desperately and have needed it for a long long time. To those that think Thomas, Samuels and Jansen are getting the job done, look at how many sacks, hurries etc. JC has seen this year and look at CP's stats to see what a bad OL does to an offense. If we had a quality OL this year then CP would have 3 - 100+ yard games and JC would have a higher completion percentage and a bunch more yards for Moss and the other WR's. JC is doing pretty well in spite of the OL not because of them He is alot more poised than we give him credit for usuallly. JC is going yo get hurt if this OL keeps playing this badly. We dont want that to happen. It will mean the end of our season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 PJ's wife: Did you gas up the car? I have to take the baby to the doctor.PJ: No, but I got these awesome new tires! They are awesome! PJ's wife: But the old tires were the best you can buy, and plenty good. And the spare is good too. PJ: But I got an awesome deal, and they were out of Hi-octane. PJ's wife: How many tires can we use at once? PJ: Don't worry, I kept the old set. They are in the garage. We can swap them whenever we want. The spare didn't exactly match anyway. PJ's wife: But I have to take the baby to the doctor, and we are getting low on fuel. PJ: YOU HATE THE CAR, DON'T YOU! You hate the new tires. You hate the steering wheel and transmission too! PJ's wife: No, I just have to get the baby to the doctor. PJ: These new tires are AWESOME! Haha. I don't have any kids. Glad to see you gave up debating your points and are now into role playing. Listen, I never said the draft was perfect. I was one of the naysayers that said get OL/DL for the past 3 years. We can only work with what they give us. WR was a sore spot last year and we had no depth there. Our WR's didn't catch a TD until week 10. You can only take care of a few things in the draft and maybe the FO thought the receivers were worth the higher picks. Maybe next year we'll use most of our picks on the line. It all depends on the depth of the positions in the draft. Who knows? And I do like me some new tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 exactly. the Redskins are simply not a talented enough team to take the 'best' player available IF that player projects to a spot where the team already has MILLIONS committed to a pro bowler who is only 26 years old. the team only needs 1 tight end on the field for 80% of the snaps, so that means the backup is only going to contribute on 20% of the plays. Davis is not even able to get on the field as the backup because he is not the blocker that Todd Yoder is. Again, there is nothing wrong with Davis. I am sure he will have a solid NFL career. But one wonders whether after his rookie contract he will enjoy his prime years on another roster in the NFL? couldn't have said it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I've gone full circle on this. At first, I thought it was a stupid pick, then it grew on me a bit. He'd probably contribute more than the rookie wide receivers. Now, I wonder what he's going to do while Cooley and Yoder have things fully covered. Seems like a waste (again) to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/26/redskins-pick-of-davis-follows-a-growing-trend/ Redskins' pick of Davis follows a growing trend Ryan O'Halloran Friday, September 26, 2008 Watching the NFL Draft at home last spring, Chris Cooley was surprised when the Washington Redskins selected Southern California's Fred Davis in the second round. The previous season, Cooley - a pass-catching tight end - earned his first Pro Bowl selection and signed a new contract. Yet the Redskins drafted Davis - a pass-catching tight end - to add another option for coach Jim Zorn's West Coast passing scheme. "I'm still going to be on the field and play every play," Cooley said this summer. Cooley's prediction proved accurate. Through three games, he has remained an every-down player and one of Jason Campbell's favorite targets (13 catches). But Davis' addition also represented a growing trend in the league: the need for a second tight end with receiving skills. Dallas, which hosts Washington on Sunday, selected Martellus Bennett to team with Pro Bowl tight end Jason Witten. The New York Jets, with Chris Baker and Bubba Franks on the roster, took Dustin Keller in the first round. And Kansas City drafted Brad Cottam in the third round to join Tony Gonzalez. Athletic tight ends who can dominate linebackers down the field and help block defensive tackles in the run game have become a premium, the reason the Redskins weren't expecting to address the position but snapped up Davis with the 48th pick. "It gives you an opportunity to do a lot of personnel groupings," Redskins executive vice president Vinny Cerrato said. "Teams that are using the tight end a lot and have multiple tight ends can take advantage of that, and I don't see how you turn down a good player when you have an opportunity to take him." While Davis has played only four snaps in two games, the Redskins envision teaming Davis and Cooley in pass routes and implementing veteran Todd Yoder as a blocker and short-range receiver. Zorn wants his tight ends to block effectively and have route-running skills and reliable hands. "It doesn't even have to do with the athleticism," he said. "The tight end is a really special position. He has to be as mean as a linebacker, he has to have hands as supple as a receiver and run routes like a receiver and he has to block like a lineman. That's a special talent. The guys that we have absolutely [have that talent]. I've been on teams where we've had three tight ends and you wanted to clone them and mash them into one guy." The Redskins this season have run only 39 two tight-end formations, but Zorn isn't against having two tight ends on the field. He prefers them at different spots. "That makes your offense that much better when you're trying to design and call plays," Zorn said. "I can use these guys with more flexibility and not worry about who's in there. I just call the play. But if you have a tight end on your team that can do only one thing - and we don't - then you're constantly scripting and game-planning for that particular guy in a particular situation." The Oakland Raiders became the first team to include two tight ends in a passing offense simultaneously. Oakland had Dave Casper but reacquired Raymond Chester in a trade with Houston. In 1979, Chester caught 58 passes (eight touchdowns) and Casper 57 (three touchdowns). Tight ends were marquee players in the 1980s - San Diego's Kellen Winslow and Oakland's Todd Christensen led the NFL in receiving twice apiece. But in the 1990s, only New England's Ben Coates and Denver's Shannon Sharpe had 1,000-yard seasons. "The stigma back then was that the tight end was a blocker and would make some interior-type catches - that was deemed as good," said Yoder, who has 13 catches in 104 career games. In the last 10 years the position has re-emerged because big, fast tight ends have proved effective against defensive backs and linebackers. Six tight ends led their teams in receiving in 2007, including Witten (96) and Cooley (66). Witten is Tony Romo sits to pee's favorite target. He has 160 catches in Romo sits to pee's 29 regular-season starts. "He's an excellent player," Redskins defensive coordinator Greg Blache said of Witten. "He's a very good weapon, and they use him wisely." Cooley has been on the field for all but 15 plays this season but sees the advantage of having Davis once the rookie gets up to speed. "I think it can be a benefit," he said. "We run it with a lot of different personnel. That's obvious from seeing us run on and off the field so much." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcarey032 Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 This thread should be renamed tryon and kelly are wasted picks. At least Fred Davis showed me something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Glad to see you gave up debating your points and are now into role playing. Oooookaay. Explain Davis' role again please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Bump to figure out exactly why we drafted Davis again? The football geniuses who were proclaiming the 2 TE sets obviously don't have a clue. As I suspected. Fact of the matter is Cooley was used less and less frequently and effectively in Zorns system as the season wore on. How is Davis going to help us again without sitting CC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HitStickTaylor21 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I didn't like the pick when we made it, but I wanted Quentin Groves with the pick and he's not exactly blowing things up in Jacksonville, so I guess I can't completely say, "I told you so." However, I definitely wanted us to go a different direction with that pick and I think we're paying a price for it right now, especially since we traded this year's 2nd for Jason Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABSTRACT Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Are you on drugs??? Fred Davs will be the best TE in the league in 4 years. We will run double TE sets since this is a WC offense and Cooley+Davis will both serve as a HUGE part of our offense. All we need to do is move Randle El to an interior WR instead of an Outside WR and put Kelly opposite to Moss as a big play threat. It even said that on Redskins.com. Don't worry, I know that our Offense will flourish when the trenches are taken care of. We have big weapons whether ppl know it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stat2883 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 We will run double TE sets since this is a WC offense and Cooley+Davis will both serve as a HUGE part of our offense. All we need to do is move Randle El to an interior WR instead of an Outside WR and put Kelly opposite to Moss as a big play threat. It even said that on Redskins.com. So we're going to run with a predominantly empty backfield? I guess we're running a non-WC version of the WCO If we're going to run 2TE sets a lot, and with a typical WCO utilizing 2 RBs, that leaves 1 WR spot. Something's gotta give. I wasn't a fan of the Davis pick either. All I can do is hope it pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'd forgotten about that pick. If he can get his act together, than he could be a very dangerous pick for us. Course, we'll actually have to give whoever our QB is time, because with targets like ours, we could do some damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Are you on drugs??? Fred Davs will be the best TE in the league in 4 years. We will run double TE sets since this is a WC offense and Cooley+Davis will both serve as a HUGE part of our offense. All we need to do is move Randle El to an interior WR instead of an Outside WR and put Kelly opposite to Moss as a big play threat. It even said that on Redskins.com. Don't worry, I know that our Offense will flourish when the trenches are taken care of. We have big weapons whether ppl know it or not. Yes. We can move JC to WR cause he is so tall. We can have ARE stand facing the bench on punts so he can get some positive yardage. We'll move Ethan Albright to QB, just have him pass backwards between his knees. Our DT's are so good about not allowing any damage to or rushing of the QB, we should move them to our own OL. We can put Bugel in pads and have some youth on our line too. We'll draft a couple more TE's and run a QUAD TE Set!!!! Bwahaahaa...WE'LL BE UNSTOPPABLE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidFan Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I think if somehow we can be heathly at WR and coach em up(sorry) the best scenario is Thomas and Kelly on the outside and Moss in the slot....that would be a DEADLY combo.......ARE is good in the slot but Moss would be sick on anyone's 3rd CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 If we end up having a coaching change after this year; then everyone from last year is a wasted pick and all the non-performers we draft this year will be wasted. Vinny has to come up with one solid starter- assuming we stay where we are. If we trade down, then Vinny needs to get 2 starters who make an impact their rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Are you on drugs??? Fred Davs will be the best TE in the league in 4 years. We will run double TE sets since this is a WC offense and Cooley+Davis will both serve as a HUGE part of our offense. All we need to do is move Randle El to an interior WR instead of an Outside WR and put Kelly opposite to Moss as a big play threat. It even said that on Redskins.com. Don't worry, I know that our Offense will flourish when the trenches are taken care of. We have big weapons whether ppl know it or not. I think you're on to something here. Hopefully noone will notice we're lining up with 12 men on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighOnHendrix Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 So we're going to run with a predominantly empty backfield? I guess we're running a non-WC version of the WCO If we're going to run 2TE sets a lot, and with a typical WCO utilizing 2 RBs, that leaves 1 WR spot. Something's gotta give.I wasn't a fan of the Davis pick either. All I can do is hope it pans out. Maybe the referees won't notice the twelfth guy? Moss is kinda small, maybe he'll be overlooked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighOnHendrix Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 If we end up having a coaching change after this year; then everyone from last year is a wasted pick and all the non-performers we draft this year will be wasted. Vinny has to come up with one solid starter- assuming we stay where we are. If we trade down, then Vinny needs to get 2 starters who make an impact their rookie year. I won't be surprised to see one of last year's rookie WRs end up starting next year. I totally agree with the previous poster who advocated Randle El playing the slot in a three-wide set. Lining him up outside is not playing to his strengths. He is Boldin to Moss's Fitzgerald. He should be running short ins and outs and slants, while Moss should be running routes mixed between those same ones and deep flys, posts, and fades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freestyln Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 If we end up having a coaching change after this year; then everyone from last year is a wasted pick and all the non-performers we draft this year will be wasted. Vinny has to come up with one solid starter- assuming we stay where we are. If we trade down, then Vinny needs to get 2 starters who make an impact their rookie year. hmm, I wonder if Zorn will call in reinforcements for '09.... Gil Haskell UNEMPLOYED Experience: 1978-1982 USC (assistant coach) 1983-1991 Los Angeles Rams (Special Teams, Running Backs, Tight Ends) *Mike Holmgren Era* 1992-1994 Green Bay Packers (Running Backs) 1995-1997 Green Bay Packers (Wide Receivers) 1998-1999 Carolina Panthers (Offensive Coordinator) *Mike Holmgren Era* 2000-2008 Seattle Seahawks (Offensive Coordinator) ======================================================= Nolan Cromwell Experience: 1991 Los Angeles Rams (Asst.) *Mike Holmgren Era* 1992–1997 Green Bay Packers (Special Teams Coach) 1998 Green Bay Packers (Wide Receivers Coach) 1999–2007 Seattle Seahawks (Wide Receivers Coach) 2008–present Texas A&M (Offensive Coordinator) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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