SkinsFTW Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 This goes into the whole thing of why draft a TE if we don't need one....I tried to fool myself into defending the pick, but I really wanted a DE/DT. Aah, well, we can just hope for the best. Maybe we'll see him taking over for Yoder a bit this week. That pick, and the 2nd one on a WR, just shows what kind of imbeciles we have in the FO. A 2nd rounder for a TE, when we already had a good value on our starter who was only a 3rd. It kind of cancels out the fact that we got cooley with a lower round pick, especially considering this team has 0 depth at several positions, with TE not being one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da#1skinsfan Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 PEOPLE football teams need DEPTH. Why did San Diego bother to draft Turner and Sproles when they had LT? Why did Carolina draft Jonathan Stewart when they had DeAngelo Williams? Why did the Giants draft Kevin Boss when they had Shockey? Why did the Raiders draft McFadden when they had Fargas? Why did Arizona draft Steve Breaston when they had Boldin AND Fitzgerald? Why did the Steelers draft Mendenhall when they had Willie Parker? Why did the Cowgirls draft Marion Barber when they had Julius Jones and why draft Felix Jones when they had Barber? You can go on and on....teams need DEPTH. TE is a vital (83 receptions) part of our offense and if Cooley goes down, can Yoder shoulder the load? Fred Davis was a huge value pick and it was the right pick to make. If a guy like that is there in the 2nd round you take him, period end of story. You never know whats going to happen in the NFL, guys get injured, they lose their work ethic, anything can happen. Nevermind our ability to run 2TE sets that actually draw coverage on the field. You cant look at a team as a bunch of starters...injuries happen every week in the NFL. You need to field a competitive 52 man roster, end of story. Thats why we drafted Davis, he was a steal at that pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonBraves1932 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 From what I saw last year, I think Davis has the best chance to really make some noise out of the three draft picks from the second round. Cooley was constantly double teamed last year, and if Zorn uses a double TE set on first and second down passing plays, Davis will definitely get some catches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 PEOPLE football teams need DEPTH. Why did San Diego bother to draft Turner and Sproles when they had LT? Why did Carolina draft Jonathan Stewart when they had DeAngelo Williams? Why did the Giants draft Kevin Boss when they had Shockey? Why did the Raiders draft McFadden when they had Fargas? Why did Arizona draft Steve Breaston when they had Boldin AND Fitzgerald? Why did the Steelers draft Mendenhall when they had Willie Parker? Why did the Cowgirls draft Marion Barber when they had Julius Jones and why draft Felix Jones when they had Barber?You can go on and on....teams need DEPTH. TE is a vital (83 receptions) part of our offense and if Cooley goes down, can Yoder shoulder the load? Fred Davis was a huge value pick and it was the right pick to make. If a guy like that is there in the 2nd round you take him, period end of story. You never know whats going to happen in the NFL, guys get injured, they lose their work ethic, anything can happen. Nevermind our ability to run 2TE sets that actually draw coverage on the field. You cant look at a team as a bunch of starters...injuries happen every week in the NFL. You need to field a competitive 52 man roster, end of story. Thats why we drafted Davis, he was a steal at that pick. Da#1, you seem to get it. Some of us fans get so short sighted at times. Depth at the position is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You can go on and on....teams need DEPTH. TE is a vital (83 receptions) part of our offense and if Cooley goes down, can Yoder shoulder the load? Fred Davis was a huge value pick and it was the right pick to make. If a guy like that is there in the 2nd round you take him, period end of story. You never know whats going to happen in the NFL, guys get injured, they lose their work ethic, anything can happen. Nevermind our ability to run 2TE sets that actually draw coverage on the field. You cant look at a team as a bunch of starters...injuries happen every week in the NFL. You need to field a competitive 52 man roster, end of story. Thats why we drafted Davis, he was a steal at that pick. Don't forget free agency and trades... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm keepin my hopes up, and he's a part of the team now so I'm rootin for him, but we still need help along the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 da#1skinsfan's post about needing depth... :applause: :applause: :applause:I agree 100%. Depth is so important in football. So what if Davis is good and is riding the bench. Cooley is better. You're paying the man to come in a play if Cooley gets hurt. How hard to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You can't tell who's a wasted pick yet. If Davis is actually a good tight end, just imagine what he could bring to our redzone offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeTK Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 i still have faith our three picks will step up in the future. as mentioned, the best thing about devin, malcolm and davis is they provide great depth. if either devin or malcolm cn step up next season, it would be huge for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 At the time, the Davis pick was a real head scratcher for me, since I didn't think the FO was even considering a TE to complement/back up Cooley. From what little I saw of Davis last season it is apparent he has an excellent blend of size and speed. I just wished the coaching staff found more ways to integrate him into our offense, similar to what Dallas was able to do with fellow rookie M. Bennett. With a seaon under his belt we should see a lot more of Davis this year. I'm optimistic that he will grow into a reliable weapon for us. As such, despite his lack of 1st year production, the pick has grown on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooley's Kidz Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 i forgot fred davis was on our team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The problem with Davis is he was always behind Cooley. If Cooley isn't going anywhere then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to draft a TE, no matter how good, in the second round just to be a backup. Best case scenario, if Davis turns out to be a great player, we have the best backup TE in the NFL, or we have to cut or trade Cooley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The problem with Davis is he was always behind Cooley. If Cooley isn't going anywhere then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to draft a TE, no matter how good, in the second round just to be a backup. Best case scenario, if Davis turns out to be a great player, we have the best backup TE in the NFL, or we have to cut or trade Cooley. The Cowboys drafted Bennett in the 2nd round and they have Witten, yet I don't really hear anyone saying these things about their pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The problem with Davis is he was always behind Cooley. If Cooley isn't going anywhere then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to draft a TE, no matter how good, in the second round just to be a backup. Best case scenario, if Davis turns out to be a great player, we have the best backup TE in the NFL, or we have to cut or trade Cooley. It's the coaching staff's responsibility to find ways to integrate Davis into the offense, whether it be in 2 TE sets or as the primary TE while giving Cooley a breather. Martellus Bennett had 4 TD's last year playing behind Witten. And he was taken after Davis. There is no reason why "we" can't expect similar production from Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Also, Cooley lines up at WR sometime, and I imagine Zorn will do the same eventually on occassion with Davis as well given his size and speed. So not only do you have the threat of a 2 TE set, but also the threat of 2 good possession-type receivers. The thing is getting Davis on the field more, but this isn't a team who throws their players to the wolves unless they are fully confident they are ready, or if injury forces their hand. A lot of teams operate this way. It was even shown on this board by many, myself included, that WRs typically don't produce their first year. TE is harder to guage because it depends on what type is drafted, and the results are all over the board. However, a 2nd round pick, overall, doesn't typically contribute a lot their first season unless the team drafted them to be the answer at their position that year (meaning they have nobody else at the position) or if injuries force that player in. I know that few want to be patient enough to see players develop, but let's all just remember how long it took Rogers, and how ready most of this board was to unload him and label him a bust even going into the '08 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Skins_&_'Stons Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You can't tell who's a wasted pick yet. If Davis is actually a good tight end, just imagine what he could bring to our redzone offense. Exactly! The most ridiculous part of this thread is that the OP posted it only three friggin weeks into the season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm willing to give "them" the benefit of the doubt for one more year. I remember us having a similar conversation about Rocky Mcintosh after his first year. And then he got his opportunity in year 2 and played well. I keep that experience in mind when thinking about Thomas, Kelly, and Sleepy. But next year is put up or shut up time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 It was even shown on this board by many, myself included, that WRs typically don't produce their first year. See Eddie Royal, DeSean Jackson, Donnie Avery, Jordy Nelson, Davone Bess, etc. TE is harder to guage because it depends on what type is drafted, and the results are all over the board. However, a 2nd round pick, overall, doesn't typically contribute a lot their first season unless the team drafted them to be the answer at their position that year (meaning they have nobody else at the position) or if injuries force that player in. Rookie tight end John Carlson for the Seahawks caught 55 balls for 627 yards last year as a rookie. Dustin Keller for the Jets made 48 receptions as a rookie tight end. Bennett for the Cowpies caught 20 passes. Boozie Davis caught 3 passes and the coach doesn't trust him to run the correct routes on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Skins_&_'Stons Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 So? Based on the success of those first year players, what would you do? Cut Kelly, Thomas, Davis and start all over again? Have patience, young padawan. See Eddie Royal, DeSean Jackson, Donnie Avery, Jordy Nelson, Davone Bess, etc. Rookie tight end John Carlson for the Seahawks caught 55 balls for 627 yards last year as a rookie. Dustin Keller for the Jets made 48 receptions as a rookie tight end. Bennett for the Cowpies caught 20 passes. Boozie Davis caught 3 passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 See Eddie Royal, DeSean Jackson, Donnie Avery, Jordy Nelson, Davone Bess, etc. Rookie tight end John Carlson for the Seahawks caught 55 balls for 627 yards last year as a rookie. Dustin Keller for the Jets made 48 receptions as a rookie tight end. Bennett for the Cowpies caught 20 passes. Boozie Davis caught 3 passes and the coach doesn't trust him to run the correct routes on the field. See my entire post. Also, see James Hardy, Jerome Simpson, Limas Sweed, and Dexter Jackson, the other 2nd round WRs selected who you chose to not list because they, like Kelly and Thomas, didn't contribute a lot their rookie seasons. I would love to see who you mean with the "etc." at the end, because the rookies you listed are the only ones who made significant contributions. Bess wasn't even drafted, so if you'd like I can go ahead and list all the WRs drafted and the ones who were undrafted rookies, and we can see just how many made significant contributions. Of course you can save yourself a lot of time by just admitting that most of those WRs didn't do jack, supporting the trend that most WRs don't contribute a lot their first season, and that you are just cherry picking the few that did do well for the sole purpose of prematurely chalking our players up as busts. Royal was made the #2 WR immediately, wonder if the Walker injury might have had something to do with it, hmm. Desean got in because Curtis went down. Holt was the only option besides Avery, and he didn't start 2 games. Nelson had 366 yards and 3 TDs, wow, stop the presses. Bess' sole competition was Camrillo. Devin Thomas did surpass Thrash, but he couldn't past Randle El. All the receivers, save for Nelson, didn't have much to compete against for the #2 spot and/or they were forced into the role because of injuries, like I already said in my other post. Oh, and see Reggie Wayne, Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Hines Ward, to name a few, only one of whom even broke 300 yards receiving his rookie year. Carlson was behind Heller, not Cooley. However, his stats should show the merit in having a 2 TE set in a WCO. Again though, see the same argument above. Not all great players contribute greatly their first year, especially when picked outside of the first round. Davis wasn't brought in to put up monster numbers, he was brought in to bolster the redzone attack, which means he should start putting up numbers similar to what Bennett did this past season. Was it the Cowboys entire team's first season in trhat offense? What about the Seahawks? This was the teams' first season in a WCO, it doesn't all click right away. And oh my God, stop the presses one more time, a head coach was uncomfortable with the route running of a rookie. Well he must be bad then, because no good receiver ever struggles on route running his first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 So? Based on the success of those first year players' date=' what would you do? Cut Kelly, Thomas, Davis and start all over again? Have patience, young padawan. [/quote']You would think the Redskins front office would learn from past mistakes and also the mistakes of others. Ignoring a need to address "depth" at an unnecessary position by drafting Manuel White, Nemo Broughton, and trading a 3rd and 4th for TJ Duckett has failed in the past. Why are they still trying to find a backup for Cooley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselfan44 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 rook playing behind a Pro Bowler...what should we have expected out of him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd421 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Again, I really feel like Zorn was not a fan of using rookies. That is just my observation. Every person who has ever talked about davis says he is a monster. I think after the mini camps this season you will start to see big things from all 3 of those guys we drafted. I think the 3 receivers we drafted will work to our advantage I just wish we would have let Malcolm heal. I hope he doesn't have any nagging injuries this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Again, I really feel like Zorn was not a fan of using rookies. That is just my observation. Every person who has ever talked about davis says he is a monster. I think after the mini camps this season you will start to see big things from all 3 of those guys we drafted. I think the 3 receivers we drafted will work to our advantage I just wish we would have let Malcolm heal. I hope he doesn't have any nagging injuries this season. Its fun riding the roller coaster of hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Davis wasn't brought in to put up monster numbersThen Mission Accomplished. Davis caught 3 balls in 11 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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