So... was Fred Davis a wasted pick?

[Morneblade]

You have to look at it in terms of his future value. Lots of rookies don't get playing time, and many rookies get drafted for depth purposes with the thought that they will eventually replace the people in front of him. Remember when H.B. Blades looked so impressive last offseason? Many are touting him as Fletcher's heir to the MLB throne, but he hasn't seen the field much, and rightly so.

Blades started last week and had a very good game for Marcus.

It's the same deal with Davis. Cooley is one of the better TEs in the league, and Yoder is a capable backup. Davis was drafted for depth, and when he's ready (which he's obviously not, yet), he'll play. The same can be said of someone like Mike Jenkins. He was one of the top CBs in the draft, and yet he's not seeing the field due to Terrance Newman, Anthony Henry, and Adam Jones ahead of him.

Well, note really. You need 3 good CB because of all the 3 WR sets you're going to see and they had no idea of Jones would be able to play this year. Big difference with TE, when you get 2 on the field at most at one time. And to spend a 2nd round pick on it as opposed to a 6th rounder like Blades? Comparing apples ot oranges.

And I think it probably was a wasted pick.

[Stormy]

Course, the one OL we did draft has been inactive all three games. God, he must have been a horrible pick.

Fact is, no matter who we drafted they probably weren't going to see a lot of time unless someone went down. The only place where I could have seen a guy maybe make an instant impact would have been at DT (which the team did identify as a need). Course, there wasn't a whole lot of selection there without reaching for a guy. (Merling and Laws could have both been looked at and both were picked before we could select.)

Jason

1.) I was saying Davis is talented, and will be well utilized eventually. Not calling him a wasted pick, at all.

2.) Merling is a DE, not a DT.

3.) My point regarding the need at OL was that given the recent injury history of Jansen and Thomas and the age of Kendall... there is a much greater likelihood that a high OL draft pick could be utilized there early, than there is for a TE seeing the field behind Cooley and Yoder. Davis is extremely talented, and it should be expected that he wouldn't see the field much yet. However, when Heyer went down last week, the line depth was getting pretty thin. Rinehart looks like a very solid pick, we just could have used another like him early in the draft (or at least will certainly need to target the OL/DL early next year).

[Ray Brown]

3.) My point regarding the need at OL was that given the recent injury history of Jansen, Thomas, Rabach and the age of Kendall... there is a much greater likelihood that a high OL draft pick could be utilized there early, than there is for a TE seeing the field behind Cooley and Yoder. Davis is extremely talented, and it should be expecte dthat he wouldn't see the field much yet. However, when Heyer went down last week, the line depth was getting pretty thin.

i understand the need for oline and thought we were going to address it in the 2nd round, but there was such a run on OLineman in the back end of the first round that there wasn't much left by the time we got davis' pick. I think a lot of 2nd round Oline talent when in the first round because teams saw all the lineman going and had to reach.

[pjfootballer]

Some of you guys are unreal. If he doesn't come in and post Antonio Gates type numbers, he's waste. We do have someone who catches the majority of the TE passes and he wears #47. Don't know if you are familiar with him.

[Stormy]

i understand the need for oline and thought we were going to address it in the 2nd round, but there was such a run on OLineman in the back end of the first round that there wasn't much left by the time we got davis' pick. I think a lot of 2nd round Oline talent when in the first round because teams saw all the lineman going and had to reach.

You are definitely right, as the OL who fit our criteria had dried up by that point in the 2nd Round. I had no problem with the Fred Davis pick, and still think he will be a useful and unique weapon when paired with our WR corps and Cooley.

However, I have long advocated the need to replenish our againg and/or ineffectual OL/DL, so I would have greatly prefered a D. Thomas, C. Campbell and F. Davis type of 2nd Round (which was available). Help bolster a major area of weakness on the DL, get younger along the DL, and not have to trade away a major future draft pick for Jason Taylor when Daniels inevitably goes down yet again. Instead, we are weaker and older on the DL, and we've lost the future draft pick which could have landed us an impact player in an area of need next year. Instead, Taylor will soon be retired, plus the draft pick is gone, and we'll have 2 holes to fill that would have already been solidified... counterproductive.

[Dick Edds]

You have to look at it in terms of his future value. Lots of rookies don't get playing time, and many rookies get drafted for depth purposes with the thought that they will eventually replace the people in front of him. Remember when H.B. Blades looked so impressive last offseason? Many are touting him as Fletcher's heir to the MLB throne, but he hasn't seen the field much, and rightly so.

It's the same deal with Davis. Cooley is one of the better TEs in the league, and Yoder is a capable backup. Davis was drafted for depth, and when he's ready (which he's obviously not, yet), he'll play. The same can be said of someone like Mike Jenkins. He was one of the top CBs in the draft, and yet he's not seeing the field due to Terrance Newman, Anthony Henry, and Adam Jones ahead of him.

I saw Mike Jenkins on the field against the Eagles, i think he may have even had an INT? Just sayn ... but I agree with your post.

[“Misdirection”]

Fred Davis is not a wasted pick. It is waaayy too early to tell. It's only game 3 for crying out loud.

We drafted Fred Davis to get Campbell some more weapons. it isn't Davis' fault he isn't on the field much yet, it's just we need time to learn the offense before we add in the complicated packages and formations and such.

Davis will have more of an impact around halfway through the season because we will have had much more time with the offense, and more time to add new things.

Davis is versatile as well. He could possibly be lined up as a WR with Cooley in TE, or even at FB sometimes. Again, this all goes back to learning the offense.

[Monk4theHall81]

Patience my brother...

Todd Yoder is the better all around player right now. Davis wont see much time this year but once his blocking improves our double tight sets are going to be extremely tough to defend with him and Cooley.

What did you honestly expect out of him this season? I think it was a luxury pick, that we could have used to address a more pressing need on the team, but Davis is going to be a beast and sometimes you take the best player available instead of targeting a position based on need.

[turbodiesel#44]

Patience my brother...

Todd Yoder is the better all around player right now. Davis wont see much time this year but once his blocking improves our double tight sets are going to be extremely tough to defend with him and Cooley.

What did you honestly expect out of him this season? I think it was a luxury pick, that we could have used to address a more pressing need on the team, but Davis is going to be a beast and sometimes you take the best player available instead of targeting a position based on need.

I agree with your post, except for the BPA part. Even if you can justify using BPA after the first round, Davis was generally regarded as a third round pick.

[Monk4theHall81]

I agree with your post, except for the BPA part. Even if you can justify using BPA after the first round, Davis was generally regarded as a third round pick.

Im not big on the BPA idea myself but I think thats the logic Vinny and Co. took. I would have rather used the pick on defense. Personally I would have went with DE Quentin Groves from Auburn.:2cents:

[turbodiesel#44]

Im not big on the BPA idea myself but I think thats the logic Vinny and Co. took. I would have rather used the pick on defense. Personally I would have went with DE Quentin Groves from Auburn.:2cents:

I liked Groves too. Spilt milk now. It's just that I hope Vinny can learn from his mistakes. I really don't buy the BPA crap, that's just rhetoric that stuck in some of the posters heads here. I really think Vinny wanted to give Zorn a leg up on the new system, and was trying to stock his weapons. But even if Davis turns out as good as most of us think he will, how much of an upgrade over Yoder will he be to justify his limited use there? Or will some of our best talent sit (Cooley)? We will probably see a 2 or 3 TE set about 2% of the plays tops. Maybe. And mostly for blocking on rushing plays. A lineman, even if he takes a year to develop and start, will play about 40% of our plays. Much greater impact and return on investment IMO.

[Braxford]

It is only three games into his rookie year....way to early to tell.

[Taylor4Life]

Two tightend sets are used primarily for blocking, and with FD being a primarily pass catching TE I doubt we'll see many two tightend sets. It made more sense when we drafted a second top safety in Landry, because obviously there was no problem putting Taylor (RIP) and Landry on the same field...

[Oldskool]

Two tightend sets are used primarily for blocking, and with FD being a primarily pass catching TE I doubt we'll see many two tightend sets. It made more sense when we drafted a second top safety in Landry, because obviously there was no problem putting Taylor (RIP) and Landry on the same field...

You can also use a 3rd TE that is as versatile as Cooley or Davis as a Split End receiver in the WCO.

Either way, anyone who is second guessing the FO right now over this without Davis having played more than a few snaps in the NFL seriously checked their brains at the door before they posted. :2cents:

[jweisk1]

We'll know for sure who was a hit (Horton) and who was a bust (Kelly?, Brooks?

Horton had one very good/fortunate game...he recovered a ball that was laying on the ground for about 5 sec...and picked off 2 tipped passes...no offense but Reid would have made those plays as well...

I am probably the biggest anti-Reed fan...however I think it is way to early to call Horton a HIT after one game that the ball clearly bounced his way on more than 1 occasion

[Taylor4Life]

You can also use a 3rd TE that is as versatile as Cooley or Davis as a Split End receiver in the WCO.

Either way, anyone who is second guessing the FO right now over this without Davis having played more than a few snaps in the NFL seriously checked their brains at the door before they posted. :2cents:

It's ridiculous to call Fred Davis a "wasted pick," or to even insinuate that at this point, but it's still a head scratcher to draft a primarily pass catching TE while we have one of the best in the game. But who knows, maybe he might turn out to be even better than Cooley?

[turbodiesel#44]

You can also use a 3rd TE that is as versatile as Cooley or Davis as a Split End receiver in the WCO.

Either way, anyone who is second guessing the FO right now over this without Davis having played more than a few snaps in the NFL seriously checked their brains at the door before they posted. :2cents:

You can't seem to keep up with the discussion. Nobody is saying Davis is not talented. We are trying to picture how he will be used when we have Cooley and Yoder catching already, and Yoder and Alexander or maybe even Sellers for blocking from the TE. Will that pick help THIS team more than a second rounder at another position whether he pans out or not?

[Oldskool]

You can't seem to keep up with the discussion. Nobody is saying Davis is not talented. We are trying to picture how he will be used when we have Cooley and Yoder catching already, and Yoder and Alexander or maybe even Sellers for blocking from the TE. Will that pick help THIS team more than a second rounder at another position whether he pans out or not?

Here is the jist and ive stated this many times on many different threads, but here goes again.

In the second round, Zorn took the best 3 receivers on the board, not hedging his bets on one kid that could make his team better.

Davis' selection shocked the hell out of me but I understood the rational of his selection very quickly after seeing who was available in the 2nd round in needed positions as well as Zorn's post draft conferences.

17 (48) Washington Redskins (From Texans through Falcons) Davis, Fred TE 6'4" 248 Southern Cal

[+] 18 (49) Philadelphia Eagles Jackson, DeSean WR 6'0" 178 California We didn't need another small speed receiver with ARE and Moss on the board and having drafted 2 receivers already.

[+] 19 (50) Arizona Cardinals Campbell, Calais DE 6'8" 282 Miami

3-4 DE prospect with one good year and his own former D-line coach was here and we didn't draft him.

[+] 20 (51) Washington Redskins Kelly, Malcolm WR 6'4" 218 Oklahoma

[+] 21 (52) Jacksonville Jaguars (From Buccaneers) Groves, Quentin DE 6'3" 250 Auburn

smallish DE that would not be a fit taking over the weakside DE role from Daniels. Will probably be playing OLB IMO.

[+] 22 (53) Pittsburgh Steelers Sweed, Limas WR 6'4" 212 Texas Would have rather had him over Kelly, but that is not the issue here.

[+] 23 (54) Tennessee Titans Jones, Jason DE 6'5" 273 Eastern Michigan

tweener, as he lacks bulk and ideal lower body strength to play inside and is too inconsistent with his pass rush moves to be an impact edge rusher

[+] 24 (55) Baltimore Ravens (From Seahawks) Rice, Ray RB 5'8" 199 Rutgers Didn't need another RB

[+] 25 (56) Green Bay Packers (From Browns) Brohm, Brian QB 6'3" 227 Louisville Didn't need another QB

[+] 26 (57) Miami Dolphins (From Chargers) Henne, Chad QB 6'2" 225 Michigan Didn't need another QB

[+] 27 (58) Tampa Bay Buccaneers (From Jaguars) Jackson, Dexter WR 5'10" 182 Appalachian State Didn't need another WR

[+] 28 (59) Indianapolis Colts Pollak, Mike OT 6'4" 299 Arizona State - Good prospect but would not see time due to depth chart.

[+] 29 (60) Green Bay Packers Lee, Patrick DB 6'0" 200 Auburn Not a good CB, just average. Reminds me of Rodgers with less skill.

[+] 30 (61) Dallas Cowboys Bennett, Martellus TE 6'6" 259 Texas A&M See Davis, Fred

[+] 31 (62) New England Patriots Wheatley, Terrence CB 5'9" 178 Colorado Very good prospect in spite of his size.

[+] 32 (63) New York Giants Thomas, Terrell CB 6'1" 198 Southern Cal Will probably be playing SS or FS in the NFL. Not fast enough to play CB.

As you can see, there were very few choices as to impact players at needed positions to choose from this year. The 2nd round was very devoid of DE talent, LB's, CB's or OL. There was maybe 2-3 players that I would have taken in this round.

As much as I disagree with the philosophy, the FO went BPA.

[redman]

You can't seem to keep up with the discussion. Nobody is saying Davis is not talented. We are trying to picture how he will be used when we have Cooley and Yoder catching already, and Yoder and Alexander or maybe even Sellers for blocking from the TE. Will that pick help THIS team more than a second rounder at another position whether he pans out or not?

We have "Yoder catching" like we have Randle El passing. It's a gimmick, nothing more. Yoder is an afterthought in our passing offense as he should be.

[fnkdctr(007)]

So... was this a wasted thread?

Well it was something to read...but it will take two to three years to figure out. Yoder right now is much better blocker but who knows what might happen in the future. I guess that's why they pay us the big money to chat here about....I have something else to do later

Another day another dollar

If it don't make dollars it don't make sense

[laurent]

Fred Davis may very well turn out to be a good player, but I think he's pretty much a wasted pick when you look at the big picture. We didn't need his contribution this year, and we had plenty of other holes to fill where that 2nd round pick would have come in handy.

A team like Dallas can afford to make a pick like that (see Benett), but for us I would have much rather seen us use the pick on somebody that may have been able to contribute sooner.

[Oldskool]

Fred Davis may very well turn out to be a good player, but I think he's pretty much a wasted pick when you look at the big picture. We didn't need his contribution this year, and we had plenty of other holes to fill where that 2nd round pick would have come in handy.

A team like Dallas can afford to make a pick like that (see Benett), but for us I would have much rather seen us use the pick on somebody that may have been able to contribute sooner.

So if Davis was a wasted pick, who would you have selected and why? I've outlined the 2nd round above. There wasn't much to go on and the team choose BPA, as they usually do.

[turbodiesel#44]

So if Davis was a wasted pick, who would you have selected and why? I've outlined the 2nd round above. There wasn't much to go on and the team choose BPA, as they usually do.

It's not that easy. We traded down for our picks. You are ignoring who WOULD have been available to us.

[Oldskool]

It's not that easy. We traded down for our picks. You are ignoring who WOULD have been available to us.

You're also assuming that we'd be able to sucker some one into trading up with us into a round that was limited with talent at needed positions.

See it's not that easy at all.

[CHERRYR]

YES. Not for lack of talent or because he'll never become a Gates type of receiving TE, but because the Skins could have used the #48 pick for talent sorely needed in other areas. Jason Goode was a victim of the numbers and the fact that Davis was drafted in R2... the only player Goode came to Camp to knock off was Yoder. In the PS Goode did quite well. Ask yourself, if Goode were sittin' on the roster in Davis' position... would the Skins be worse off with the talent of Campbell, Pollak, or Groves added to the roster? As it stands right now, IMO I think not. It was a FO decision... it's done, but nobody left their brains at the door for asking the question. :logo: HTTR